RugbyRebels

Toby Flood exploring his options of playing for Germany.

Can you elaborate on that? Is it a joke that I'm just not getting?

Ah. I see. Not a joke. http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/ne ... land-exile

I believe that's perfectly possible. His last England cap was 2013, so outside the 3 years, and he fits the "genuine, credible, established link" that the IRB have said is needed. He'd need to play 4 "Olympic Events" (World 7s series tournaments) which would take him away from Newcastle for a bit of time, but after that, he could become German.

Puja

I was a little confused why Toby Flood playing for Germany followed on from something Manu might aspire to. But I'm sure if he wanted to travel Germany would be delighted to have Flood available, I'm not sure Newcastle would though having signed an English player

Digby wrote:I was a little confused why Toby Flood playing for Germany followed on from something Manu might aspire to. But I'm sure if he wanted to travel Germany would be delighted to have Flood available, I'm not sure Newcastle would though having signed an English player

Looking at Newcastle's squad, I'm not sure hitting EQP targets is something they're aiming for. If anything, they'd probably be quite pleased to have another country for their game of Tier 2/3 bingo.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:I was a little confused why Toby Flood playing for Germany followed on from something Manu might aspire to. But I'm sure if he wanted to travel Germany would be delighted to have Flood available, I'm not sure Newcastle would though having signed an English player

Looking at Newcastle's squad, I'm not sure hitting EQP targets is something they're aiming for. If anything, they'd probably be quite pleased to have another country for their game of Tier 2/3 bingo.

Puja

Given what their academy churned out they've slipped off badly. Though I suspect they'd simply say, and not unfairly, the number of players who left showed the academy wasn't an easy thing for them to justify

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:I was a little confused why Toby Flood playing for Germany followed on from something Manu might aspire to. But I'm sure if he wanted to travel Germany would be delighted to have Flood available, I'm not sure Newcastle would though having signed an English player

Looking at Newcastle's squad, I'm not sure hitting EQP targets is something they're aiming for. If anything, they'd probably be quite pleased to have another country for their game of Tier 2/3 bingo.

Puja

Given what their academy churned out they've slipped off badly. Though I suspect they'd simply say, and not unfairly, the number of players who left showed the academy wasn't an easy thing for them to justify

In fairness, they did have a long period where the academy lads stuck by them and they only started leaving once it became clear that the club wasn't planning on assailing the top of the table again. They got a good few years out of the likes of Wilkinson, Flood, Walder, May, Noon, Tait, etc.

Thinking of good academies and clubs that have been asset stripped, I'm interested to see how Sale get on this year. Very impressed by how they're using their academy and the 5 year contracts and they've signed well this year. Plus I think Curry and Curry might be once-in-a-generation level of talents.

Puja

And add to those names the likes of Dickson, Dowson, Parling, Brookes. It's an interesting question for the game as to how to encourage development and playing time.

I withhold judgment on Sale until I see how they try to play, where JOC plays, and how JOC plays. If they don't start well nothing about Dimes suggests he'll not go back to school with the pack (again) and play a style which isn't going to thrill JOC

Digby wrote:And add to those names the likes of Dickson, Dowson, Parling, Brookes. It's an interesting question for the game as to how to encourage development and playing time.

I withhold judgment on Sale until I see how they try to play, where JOC plays, and how JOC plays. If they don't start well nothing about Dimes suggests he'll not go back to school with the pack (again) and play a style which isn't going to thrill JOC

Wilson, McGuigan, Barrow, Hodgson (albiet briefly), Young - the list does go on for a while. However one notable is that those names are largely uninspiring, Parling and Wilkinson aside. Newcastle's academy has produced a lot of players, but precious few very good ones. Not sure what to make of that.

I'm not convinced that Diamond's the right coach for Sale either, especially with his massive conflicts of interest in being board member and mates with the chair as well. However, given how quickly they've gone to pot every time they've tried a non-Diamond DoR over the last few years, I can't blame him for wanting to keep his oar stuck in.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:Toby Flood exploring his options of playing for Germany.

Where did you hear this?

I read an article a couple of weeks ago when he was expressing his desire to get back in to the England set-up and seeing Newcastle as a great platform for doing so.

Puja wrote:I believe that's perfectly possible. His last England cap was 2013, so outside the 3 years, and he fits the "genuine, credible, established link" that the IRB have said is needed. He'd need to play 4 "Olympic Events" (World 7s series tournaments) which would take him away from Newcastle for a bit of time, but after that, he could become German.

Puja

How often do Germany actually make it to the World 7s tournaments? would their qualifying tournies count for him?

Scrumhead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Toby Flood exploring his options of playing for Germany.

Where did you hear this?

I read an article a couple of weeks ago when he was expressing his desire to get back in to the England set-up and seeing Newcastle as a great platform for doing so.

The Times.

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:I believe that's perfectly possible. His last England cap was 2013, so outside the 3 years, and he fits the "genuine, credible, established link" that the IRB have said is needed. He'd need to play 4 "Olympic Events" (World 7s series tournaments) which would take him away from Newcastle for a bit of time, but after that, he could become German.

Puja

How often do Germany actually make it to the World 7s tournaments? would their qualifying tournies count for him?

He seems to think so.

Is this possible under the current eligibility rules?

London - Former England flyhalf Toby Flood is thinking about switching allegiances to play for Germany, he revealed in an interview with The Times published on Monday.

Flood, who won the last of his 60 England caps in 2013, qualifies to play for Germany through his grandfather Albert Lieven, who left Berlin in 1936, and applied for a German passport after the Brexit vote.

"If there was any way of trying to help a fledgling rugby country, it would interest me," Flood said.

"I have always been proud of being German. It would be nice to go back and connect it all together.

"My mum is the last remaining true Lieven and she went back to Germany about 10 years ago to put together the family tree, so if there was a chance to connect into that, it would be great."

Flood, 32, effectively ended his England career by joining French side Toulouse in 2014, but will play in the Premiership again this season after joining Newcastle.

With George Ford and Owen Farrell barring his way to an England recall, his international future could now lie with minnows Germany, who are ranked 22nd in the world.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/ex-engla ... h-20170821

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:I believe that's perfectly possible. His last England cap was 2013, so outside the 3 years, and he fits the "genuine, credible, established link" that the IRB have said is needed. He'd need to play 4 "Olympic Events" (World 7s series tournaments) which would take him away from Newcastle for a bit of time, but after that, he could become German.

Puja

How often do Germany actually make it to the World 7s tournaments? would their qualifying tournies count for him?

I believe they would. In order to count, it's got to be "an event counting towards Olympic qualifying", so I don't see why a lower level one wouldn't count. One for the bods in the IRB; you'd suspect they might be amenable to anything to benefit Germany and the potential cash cow therein.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Toby Flood exploring his options of playing for Germany.

Where did you hear this?

I read an article a couple of weeks ago when he was expressing his desire to get back in to the England set-up and seeing Newcastle as a great platform for doing so.

You'd have to say that at 32, he's dreaming if he thinks he can crack the EPS again.

Puja

TBH i'm not against this idea of players dropping down to another tier country.

Thanks. Didn't see it.

. . . What's the EQP thead?

I've read the article and I'm kind of on the fence ...

In a situation like Toby Flood's, where he appears to have some fairly genuine reasons for doing it, I can see the argument. However, I think the ruling is aimed more at uncapped PI players who've been trapped by age grade representation so can't represent their country. Fritz Lee springs to mind - definitely a test quality player who should be playing for Samoa but can't (or couldn't) on account of playing for NZ 7s years ago.

TBF - probably deserves a thread of its own - and isn't really EPS relevant.

Which Tyler wrote:TBF - probably deserves a thread of its own - and isn't really EPS relevant.

Your wish is my very clumsy command.

Puja

Where would Flood be on the list of contenders t play 10/12 right now?

I'm not a fan of nation-hopping, tbh. Perhaps it's because I remember the shamateur era too well when union was becoming as big of a farce as league and Samoa sent a team largely comprised of NZers to the World Cup and the Scots had their kilted Kiwis as well. We had the Welsh Kiwigate scandals when it came to light that Shane Howarth had no Welsh ancestry at all, then Hemi Taylor punching the air in jubilation after scoring what basically amounted to a consolation try in their crucial loss to Ireland at the 1995 World Cup. Brian Smith decided he was no longer Australian but Irish, and even my good mate Damian O'Brien ended up playing for Ireland - and he barely even knew where it was on a map! So I'm a bit old school on this one, I'm afraid. Once you make your choice that should be it, and under all but the most exceptional circumstances that choice should be the country you grew up playing the game in.

rowan wrote:I'm not a fan of nation-hopping, tbh. Perhaps it's because I remember the shamateur era too well when union was becoming as big of a farce as league and Samoa sent a team largely comprised of NZers to the World Cup and the Scots had their kilted Kiwis as well. We had the Welsh Kiwigate scandals when it came to light that Shane Howarth had no Welsh ancestry at all, then Hemi Taylor punching the air in jubilation after scoring what basically amounted to a consolation try in their crucial loss to Ireland at the 1995 World Cup. Brian Smith decided he was no longer Australian but Irish, and even my good mate Damian O'Brien ended up playing for Ireland - and he barely even knew where it was on a map! So I'm a bit old school on this one, I'm afraid. Once you make your choice that should be it, and under all but the most exceptional circumstances that choice should be the country you grew up playing the game in.

As a general rule, I'm with you on that, although sometimes the IRB does go the other way as well - Shingler being denied playing for Scotland because he'd played one game for Wales U20s.

Puja