RugbyRebels

Joined up with the squad this morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35745566

Bench for England, I expect.

Any idea who the ref is for the game?

Numbers wrote:Any idea who the ref is for the game?

Ref: Craig Joubert (SARU)
Assistants: Jérôme Garcès (FFR), Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Numbers wrote:Any idea who the ref is for the game?

Ref: Craig Joubert (SARU)
Assistants: Jérôme Garcès (FFR), Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Could be worse.

Good to see him back. The thought of Lloyd Williams coming on again isn't a happy one.

Sandydragon wrote:Good to see him back. The thought of Lloyd Williams coming on again isn't a happy one.

Aye, coming on at Twickenham, putting in the cross kick to set up the winning try. Horrible thought...

Lord Llandaff wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Good to see him back. The thought of Lloyd Williams coming on again isn't a happy one.

Aye, coming on at Twickenham, putting in the cross kick to set up the winning try. Horrible thought...

Perhaps a spot on the wing then? I was thinking of the awful box kick that led to Ireland's last gasp penalty draw. Nor was the rest of his game that impressive.

they are ALL awful at box-kicking or just kicking the ball away in general

(although i assume they are playing to a plan to give the ball to the opposition so they can force mistakes,
then kick the ball back to them again on turnover)

wayneha50 wrote:they are ALL awful at box-kicking or just kicking the ball away in general

(although i assume they are playing to a plan to give the ball to the opposition so they can force mistakes,
then kick the ball back to them again on turnover)

It's Howley's attack plan - hope the opposition make mistakes, or else ffwc knows

What is strange is that I don't remember the box kick being a significant part of his own game and yet every 9 he has ever coached seems obsessed with them

wayneha50 wrote:they are ALL awful at box-kicking or just kicking the ball away in general

(although i assume they are playing to a plan to give the ball to the opposition so they can force mistakes,
then kick the ball back to them again on turnover)

Apparently the idea is to rely on our defence but put the ball into a competitive space where we might win it back. I don't mind the concept when ball is slow, but we do seem to do it too often, I'd prefer that we kept ball in hand more when not in our 22 and tried to create a try or 2.

To be fair, it's not just Wales favouring aerial ping pong, the whole 6N has been plagued by it, and it's boring as hell.

Probably a rule change is the only way to get rid of it, similar to the kicking the ball dead rule they bought in a few years back.

Sandydragon wrote:

wayneha50 wrote:they are ALL awful at box-kicking or just kicking the ball away in general

(although i assume they are playing to a plan to give the ball to the opposition so they can force mistakes,
then kick the ball back to them again on turnover)

Apparently the idea is to rely on our defence but put the ball into a competitive space where we might win it back. I don't mind the concept when ball is slow, but we do seem to do it too often, I'd prefer that we kept ball in hand more when not in our 22 and tried to create a try or 2.

exactly - it has its place but we seem obsessed by it, that & the little grubber kick in behind defences when we have 5 man overlaps

Lord Llandaff wrote:

wayneha50 wrote:they are ALL awful at box-kicking or just kicking the ball away in general

(although i assume they are playing to a plan to give the ball to the opposition so they can force mistakes,
then kick the ball back to them again on turnover)

It's Howley's attack plan - hope the opposition make mistakes, or else ffwc knows

What is strange is that I don't remember the box kick being a significant part of his own game and yet every 9 he has ever coached seems obsessed with them

I seem to remember he was quite good at making short box kicks over the defenders and running round them to collect the ball himself. Box kicks these days seem a long longer then I remember in the past.

Gog wrote:

Lord Llandaff wrote:

wayneha50 wrote:they are ALL awful at box-kicking or just kicking the ball away in general

(although i assume they are playing to a plan to give the ball to the opposition so they can force mistakes,
then kick the ball back to them again on turnover)

It's Howley's attack plan - hope the opposition make mistakes, or else ffwc knows

What is strange is that I don't remember the box kick being a significant part of his own game and yet every 9 he has ever coached seems obsessed with them

I seem to remember he was quite good at making short box kicks over the defenders and running round them to collect the ball himself. Box kicks these days seem a long longer then I remember in the past.

They are. That's because hardly anybody is good at them. The amount of ball kicked away by most teams is staggering.

Spiffy wrote:

Gog wrote:

Lord Llandaff wrote:
It's Howley's attack plan - hope the opposition make mistakes, or else ffwc knows

What is strange is that I don't remember the box kick being a significant part of his own game and yet every 9 he has ever coached seems obsessed with them

I seem to remember he was quite good at making short box kicks over the defenders and running round them to collect the ball himself. Box kicks these days seem a long longer then I remember in the past.

They are. That's because hardly anybody is good at them. The amount of ball kicked away by most teams is staggering.

It would be interesting to see if on average you are penalised more when you have the ball than when you don't.

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Gog wrote:
I seem to remember he was quite good at making short box kicks over the defenders and running round them to collect the ball himself. Box kicks these days seem a long longer then I remember in the past.

They are. That's because hardly anybody is good at them. The amount of ball kicked away by most teams is staggering.

It would be interesting to see if on average you are penalised more when you have the ball than when you don't.

Indeed. I understand the premise that defenses are so good these days and the risk of turnovers is significant after a number of phases, therefore the idea of kicking the ball away for some field position makes sense. But, if referees are being more sympathetic to the attack these days, then perhaps the number of penalties awarded are less. But is there statistical data available to support these hunches?

There has never been much point in running slow ball, unless you can create sufficient momentum to turn it into quick ball or you are trying to run down the clock. I also understand that Gatland doesn't want to kick for touch in order to keep the pace of the game high and rely on our fitness. I still think we have space within the existing tactics to use an offload game mind.