Best team never to win a World Cup

[Lizard]

Heretofore, it has been universally acknowledged that three-time finalist, no-time winner France is the best team never to win Bill.

If Ireland don’t win next year, I think they will become strong contenders for this title.

France has never been as dominant over other title-contenders as Ireland is right now. On the other hand, France has been in the mix in every RWC except perhaps 2015 and 1991 when they were knocked out in the QFs.

[Puja]

I see Ireland as being where England were in 2002 - a rising power that's just slowly starting to believe that they might be the best team in the world. Doesn't guarantee the same result, of course, but this is their opportunity and one which they must not forgo. I think if you look historically, you'd have to say France though - Ireland were lucky to reach quarter finals for chunks of the 90s and 2000s.

Here's an interesting question (and what I thought this thread was going to be) - what's the best team from your nation not to win the RWC? It's a hard one to answer for England. Completely off the pace in 87, so that's out. Got to the final of 91 but were we really any good or just lucky in our draw? 1995 was one good game against Australia and bog all else. 1999 was a decent side and the beginnings of the 2000-2003 dynasty, but came up short whenever they met a SH side. 2007 was pulled down by the opening loss to SA, but somehow came back through grit and determination to beat better teams. 2011 underperformed all the way through. And, of course, we don't talk about 2015.

I think it would have to be 2007 for us. Not really the most talented team (although I would murder someone to have even 2007 edition Robinson and Gomarsall back again), but after the loss to SA and the player revolt, they forced their way to the brink of the title by sheer willpower alone.

Puja

[Lizard]

I agree that France have spent longer being capable of winning (basically 1987-2011) than Ireland, but I think 2019 Ireland will be relatively speaking better than any previous French RWC team (France was ranked #2 in the world leading up to RWC2007 though).

As for the best NZ team not to win, I would say 1995, easily. Most of that team would have been contenders for a World's Best XV - Lomu of course, Fitzpatrick, Olo Brown, Ian Jones, Zinzan & Robin Brooke, Kronfeld, Mehrtens, Bunce, Jeff Wilson. The final was nearest run thing, not to mention "Suzy" and the political/emotional circumstances in which the Springboks were playing.

1991: Complacent and carrying a few average players (Craig Innes, Kieran Crowley, John Timu, Mark Carter etc.)
1999: Badly coached. In the forwards there was only so far that J. Kronfeld, I. Jones and R. Brooke could carrythe likes of Hoeft, Dowd, Meeuws, Feek, Hammett, Oliver, Norm Maxwell, Royce Willis, Blowers, Mika, Reuben Thorne, Randell, Robertson. And if the backs did get the ball, we had Cullen at centre, FFS.
2003: Not a bad side on paper, but I suspect some of the names stand out more now than they did back then.
2007: No recollection of this one. So shut up.

[Lizard]

Yep. I think the mid-90s thinking (rightly) was that the series win in South Africa in’96 was as important a goal, if not more so, as a World Cup win.

[Lizard]

Yep. Certainly the 2007 Boks had the easiest run in.

[Lizard]

Agreed again. Here is a list of RWC winners with their success rate from winning the trophy until until their last match before the next RWC, and their result at the following RWC:

1987 NZ: 89.6%, 3rd
1991 Aust: 83.3%, QF exit
1995 SA: 68.8%, 3rd
1999 Aust: 61.8%, 2nd
2003 Eng: 40.0%, 2nd
2007 SA: 61.4%, QF exit
2011 NZ: 91.5, 1st
2015* NZ: 86.9%*, ??

[Lizard]

If you look at the results, I think you have to say:

France is the best team to never win (losing 3 finals - no other team has played even 1 final without winning)

Wales is the best side to never make the final (losing 2 SFs, for a 3rd and a 4th. Argentina has the same record in SFs but loses the tie break by having made 1 fewer QFs than Wales)

Scotland is the best side never to do better than 4th (because no other team has peaked at 4th)

Ireland is the best team to not make a SF (losing 6 QFs. The other QFists to never win are Fiji & Samoa with 2 each, and Canada with 1).

Best team to never make the playoffs is Italy (3rd in its pool 7 times, and 4th in 1999 when 3rd could have been enough to get into the weird playoff round caused by having 5 pools. Next best is Tonga with 4 third place pool finishes).

[Lizard]

Ireland have not been done many favours in RWC draws. In ‘87 and ‘91 they were knocked out by a good vintage Wallabies side. ‘95 they had NZ and Wales in their pool, then a QF v France. ‘99 they got mugged by Arg in a penalty-fest (7 PGs apiece!). ‘03 & ‘07 were pool of death scenarios. ‘11 they played their final against Australia in the pool stages.

They’ve never had the likes of Canada, Fiji or Samoa in the Quarters - but mind you neither have Wales, England or Argentina.