RugbyRebels

So everyone thinks this game is a given Welsh win; I'm sure we wont approach it in that manner.

I'm hoping that Privac sticks with the same team, unless anyone is carrying a knock. We need a BP win, just in case France slip up and then beat us to make the championship dependent on bonus points.

I would tinker actually .

Williams, Adams, North, Davies , LRZ, Sheedy, Hardy
Jones, Dee, Brown, AWJ, Beard , Botham, Tipuric , Wainwright

Elias , Carre, Lewis , Hill, Navidi , Williams , Evans , Halaholo

Not saying this would be my France 23 .
We’ve struggled in the past when we’ve made mass changes against Italy
But this Italy, as much as I like their attempt to play are very poor .

I’d start Sheedy and see how it goes - no other changes in the backs , but I’d add Evans to the bench , not dropping Biggar , but resting him . I’d also give Lloyd a bench spot because I’ve got Evans at 22.

I’d give Owen and Francis a break . I like hill as a bench option and I’d keep him there . I’d test Faletau and give Wainwright a chance at 8. There’s a good player in there somewhere. I’d also give Botham a start . I just have a gut feel about him being a test player .

Resting Biggar and giving Sheedy a chance from the start is a fair shout, possibly with Evans on the bench as you say. Botham is playing very well but I wouldn’t change the back row at this point. It feels like we are building really good momentum so
I’m loath for too many changes given the scale of the task in Paris.

I wouldn't change too much - we need the bonus point, and racking up points difference might help in the end too.

My only changes would be:
Start Sheedy. Jarrod Evans on the bench.
Start Halaholo. Johnny Williams to the bench. (Not desperately worried if this order is reversed).

Happy to substitute older players earlier than usual if the game is going well in the second half.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:I wouldn't change too much - we need the bonus point, and racking up points difference might help in the end too.

My only changes would be:
Start Sheedy. Jarrod Evans on the bench.
Start Halaholo. Johnny Williams to the bench. (Not desperately worried if this order is reversed).

Happy to substitute older players earlier than usual if the game is going well in the second half.

Agreed re outside half. It is a good opportunity to play a more expansive game, and Wales have some great attackers out wide. If Pivac sees Jonathan Davies as a 12 long term, this would be a good game to let him have a run out. if i was picking the side I would start Williams with Halaholo on the bench. Italy have picked a small 9, 10 and 12 this year, and Wales should look to attack there. I’ve been impressed by the Italian 13, Brex.

I would keep the same pack unless any of the England based players pick up a bump next weekend. They would definitely be my starting pack v France. It might not be the worst thing to give Francis or Faletau a week off, if they play for their clubs. Francis in particular has had a lot of running repairs during the course of this championship. Wainwright at 8, and Leon Brown starting on the tight head wouldn’t worry me for this game.

Good point about Francis in particular who seems to be getting treated a lot for minor injuries.

We need to keep the team as is to keep building into the French game, chopping and changing now is just disruptive and we need to get some consistency in selection.

Id start sheedy and Keiron (9 who started)

I wouldn't really worry about Italy, they huff and puff but their defence is shocking.

whatisthejava wrote:Id start sheedy and Keiron (9 who started)

I wouldn't really worry about Italy, they huff and puff but their defence is shocking.

They’ve got a young side who are developing, so it’s a potential banana skin if we made too many unforced changes for Rome. Gatland learned that lesson!

I agree with you on Hardy and Sheedy. They need plenty of game time together to build a strong rapport because they look an important part of Wales’ future.

The important thing for Rome is we gain the four-try bonus point and a high score for and low score against. As Brucie used say, ‘points make prizes’!

You’ll get a 4try against Italy.

It all comes down to France. My money is on France forfeiting the game and Scotland getting a 28-0. They can still win it. Will be a great end to the tournament, especially if Scotland beat Ireland and go for a cricket score against Italy.

Going to be a brilliant final weekend

whatisthejava wrote:You’ll get a 4try against Italy.

It all comes down to France. My money is on France forfeiting the game and Scotland getting a 28-0. They can still win it. Will be a great end to the tournament, especially if Scotland beat Ireland and go for a cricket score against Italy.

Going to be a brilliant final weekend

I think we can make a few changes and still get the BP, but I’d like for the starting team to be as close to the starting XV for the France game as possible. We are definitely improving as the tournament goes on and I think there is a good argument about continuity. Maybe rest Francis if he has taken a few too many knocks and the same for Biggar who has looked to have taken big hits in two last games. I’m also really not sure about JD2 at the moment and I think Jonny Williams is playing a lot better, but also recognise the experience that Foxy brings to the table.

Hopefully we start with a strong side and the bench gets on nice and early.

If France do forfeit the game 28-0 then that makes the rest of the tournament very interesting. AFAIK, the normal procedure for the six nations is to postpone matches instead. Obviously a load got postponed to last autumn and there were Irish matches postponed due to foot and mouth.

I suppose the difference is they were blameless postponements. This time feels a bit different and if Scotland are obliged to play when their top players aren’t available they will, rightly, go nuts. But without a clear process for managing blameworthy (and who decides that?) postponements the French may appeal any action taken, making this a very strange outcome.

Wales are getting better but they still look really disjointed in attack and tend to attack best in broken play. If you take the 4 tries for me hills the best one. Ok it’s a bit training ground but it was well executed.

Williams was a nice build up but a kick in hope that went extremely well and the other 2 can’t really be talked about because neither had any build up to demonstrate the attacking shape.

Whatever happens with France i think you guys are in for a torrid 80 mins but the teams on for a slam and you never know.


Strangely I think luxk has really papered over the fact that Pivac really isn’t good and several has suspected that he lost the dressing room. My money is on a top 2 finish and a new coach come the autumn.

whatisthejava wrote:Wales are getting better but they still look really disjointed in attack and tend to attack best in broken play. If you take the 4 tries for me hills the best one. Ok it’s a bit training ground but it was well executed.

Williams was a nice build up but a kick in hope that went extremely well and the other 2 can’t really be talked about because neither had any build up to demonstrate the attacking shape.

Whatever happens with France i think you guys are in for a torrid 80 mins but the teams on for a slam and you never know.

Strangely I think luxk has really papered over the fact that Pivac really isn’t good and several has suspected that he lost the dressing room. My money is on a top 2 finish and a new coach come the autumn.

We were much more dangerous in broken play under Gatland too, this is nothing new. But we are scoring more tries.

I think Pivac is a lot better than 2020 suggested, but only time will tell how good. There's no way he's going in the Summer though.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: I think Pivac is a lot better than 2020 suggested, but only time will tell how good. There's no way he's going in the Summer though.

You know what, you could be right, the results have been very positive and are really skewing things. i think any other national coach would be safe with the wins he has had, but Wales ejected Ruddock after a GS and I'm not convinced he is in total control of the changing room

whatisthejava wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: I think Pivac is a lot better than 2020 suggested, but only time will tell how good. There's no way he's going in the Summer though.

You know what, you could be right, the results have been very positive and are really skewing things. i think any other national coach would be safe with the wins he has had, but Wales ejected Ruddock after a GS and I'm not convinced he is in total control of the changing room

Maybe, its hard to be sure either way. Certainly there is a hint that he would have issues with personnel after Gatland having so long in charge with many of the same players. I think post Lions (assuming thats on) there will be a change in a few key personnel which will be a crucial time. If that goes alright, then Privac will be with us until the RWC. It feels like we are still in transition and maybe not as far along as Privac would like.

We have ridden our luck, but equally we have also been very disciplined.

Sandydragon wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: I think Pivac is a lot better than 2020 suggested, but only time will tell how good. There's no way he's going in the Summer though.

You know what, you could be right, the results have been very positive and are really skewing things. i think any other national coach would be safe with the wins he has had, but Wales ejected Ruddock after a GS and I'm not convinced he is in total control of the changing room

Maybe, its hard to be sure either way. Certainly there is a hint that he would have issues with personnel after Gatland having so long in charge with many of the same players. I think post Lions (assuming thats on) there will be a change in a few key personnel which will be a crucial time. If that goes alright, then Privac will be with us until the RWC. It feels like we are still in transition and maybe not as far along as Privac would like.

We have ridden our luck, but equally we have also been very disciplined.

Some really interesting points about whether Pivac has lost the dressing room. The mantra after the last couple of games is that Wales were experimenting in the Autumn, and I didn’t feel as though that was the case at the time. I don’t think that Pivac envisaged Wales playing as they are at present. In my view they were trying to change the playing style, and picking players to fit the new style, and it didn’t work out, as opposed to there being some sort of experimental master plan. I would like to think that Pivac has now realised he needed to take a more pragmatic approach to his selection, in particular Wyn Jones, Tomas Francis and Adam Beard looking as though they are now first choices. Previously he had gone for more mobile players who struggled at the set piece, which put Wales at a disadvantage from the off. We can all see the benefits of picking props who can reliably carry the ball forward, and/or get to the tackle area quickly, but not at the cost of them conceding consecutive scrum penalties, and ending up defending lineouts in your own 22 against teams like England or Ireland.

In his defence he took over a squad that where a number of the senior players had long term injuries, and most of those players have now returned. It would be terrific if Anscombe and Ellis Jenkins were able to achieve their pre-injury standards, this would enhance the squad even more. He is also incredibly lucky that LRZ has come along, a player who has the potential to be Wales’ best ‘get out of jail’ card since Shane Williams !

My gut feeling is that he will still be in post after the Autumn.

whatisthejava wrote:Wales are getting better but they still look really disjointed in attack and tend to attack best in broken play. If you take the 4 tries for me hills the best one. Ok it’s a bit training ground but it was well executed.

Williams was a nice build up but a kick in hope that went extremely well and the other 2 can’t really be talked about because neither had any build up to demonstrate the attacking shape.

Whatever happens with France i think you guys are in for a torrid 80 mins but the teams on for a slam and you never know.


Strangely I think luxk has really papered over the fact that Pivac really isn’t good and several has suspected that he lost the dressing room. My money is on a top 2 finish and a new coach come the autumn.

In this sentence you seem to be saying that Wales are better in attack in broken play (this is the same for every rugby team on the planet) and then state that the structured play is "a bit training ground" which is patently obvious, what point are you trying to make?

I take it you didn't see us exploit the wide areas?

Sandydragon wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: I think Pivac is a lot better than 2020 suggested, but only time will tell how good. There's no way he's going in the Summer though.

You know what, you could be right, the results have been very positive and are really skewing things. i think any other national coach would be safe with the wins he has had, but Wales ejected Ruddock after a GS and I'm not convinced he is in total control of the changing room

Maybe, its hard to be sure either way. Certainly there is a hint that he would have issues with personnel after Gatland having so long in charge with many of the same players. I think post Lions (assuming thats on) there will be a change in a few key personnel which will be a crucial time. If that goes alright, then Privac will be with us until the RWC. It feels like we are still in transition and maybe not as far along as Privac would like.

We have ridden our luck, but equally we have also been very disciplined.

I wonder if the friction wasn’t Pivac but Byron Hayward. Perhaps the players weren’t impressed with him after so many years of Shaun Edwards.

Pivac took pretty drastic action in sacking Hayward and with Gethin Jenkins coming in we might have a far happier dressing room.

Numbers wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Wales are getting better but they still look really disjointed in attack and tend to attack best in broken play. If you take the 4 tries for me hills the best one. Ok it’s a bit training ground but it was well executed.

Williams was a nice build up but a kick in hope that went extremely well and the other 2 can’t really be talked about because neither had any build up to demonstrate the attacking shape.

Whatever happens with France i think you guys are in for a torrid 80 mins but the teams on for a slam and you never know.


Strangely I think luxk has really papered over the fact that Pivac really isn’t good and several has suspected that he lost the dressing room. My money is on a top 2 finish and a new coach come the autumn.

In this sentence you seem to be saying that Wales are better in attack in broken play (this is the same for every rugby team on the planet) and then state that the structured play is "a bit training ground" which is patently obvious, what point are you trying to make?

I take it you didn't see us exploit the wide areas?

The attack looked very good at times on Saturday. I like the tactic of getting Faletau and Tipuric out wide. I think the chopping and changing at centre has hampered development in this regard, (as did the poor showing from Gareth Davies & Dan Biggar v Scotland). I would advocate picking the same backline and back row as Pivac intends to play against France (subject to possibly resting a bruised and battered Biggar) in the next game. In particular, if he thinks that Jon Davies will be his starting 12 against France, he really should play v Italy. This may change if Faletau picks up some bumps and bruises at the weekend.

Wallpaperman wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

whatisthejava wrote: You know what, you could be right, the results have been very positive and are really skewing things. i think any other national coach would be safe with the wins he has had, but Wales ejected Ruddock after a GS and I'm not convinced he is in total control of the changing room

Maybe, its hard to be sure either way. Certainly there is a hint that he would have issues with personnel after Gatland having so long in charge with many of the same players. I think post Lions (assuming thats on) there will be a change in a few key personnel which will be a crucial time. If that goes alright, then Privac will be with us until the RWC. It feels like we are still in transition and maybe not as far along as Privac would like.

We have ridden our luck, but equally we have also been very disciplined.

Some really interesting points about whether Pivac has lost the dressing room. The mantra after the last couple of games is that Wales were experimenting in the Autumn, and I didn’t feel as though that was the case at the time. I don’t think that Pivac envisaged Wales playing as they are at present. In my view they were trying to change the playing style, and picking players to fit the new style, and it didn’t work out, as opposed to there being some sort of experimental master plan. I would like to think that Pivac has now realised he needed to take a more pragmatic approach to his selection, in particular Wyn Jones, Tomas Francis and Adam Beard looking as though they are now first choices. Previously he had gone for more mobile players who struggled at the set piece, which put Wales at a disadvantage from the off. We can all see the benefits of picking props who can reliably carry the ball forward, and/or get to the tackle area quickly, but not at the cost of them conceding consecutive scrum penalties, and ending up defending lineouts in your own 22 against teams like England or Ireland.

In his defence he took over a squad that where a number of the senior players had long term injuries, and most of those players have now returned. It would be terrific if Anscombe and Ellis Jenkins were able to achieve their pre-injury standards, this would enhance the squad even more. He is also incredibly lucky that LRZ has come along, a player who has the potential to be Wales’ best ‘get out of jail’ card since Shane Williams !

My gut feeling is that he will still be in post after the Autumn.

Indeed. Obviously it's sport and nothing is for certain, but in the absence of an idiot like Alfie in the dressing room I don't really see a Triple Crown and potentially Championship and Grand Slam winning coach getting forced out at this point.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Wallpaperman wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Maybe, its hard to be sure either way. Certainly there is a hint that he would have issues with personnel after Gatland having so long in charge with many of the same players. I think post Lions (assuming thats on) there will be a change in a few key personnel which will be a crucial time. If that goes alright, then Privac will be with us until the RWC. It feels like we are still in transition and maybe not as far along as Privac would like.

We have ridden our luck, but equally we have also been very disciplined.

Some really interesting points about whether Pivac has lost the dressing room. The mantra after the last couple of games is that Wales were experimenting in the Autumn, and I didn’t feel as though that was the case at the time. I don’t think that Pivac envisaged Wales playing as they are at present. In my view they were trying to change the playing style, and picking players to fit the new style, and it didn’t work out, as opposed to there being some sort of experimental master plan. I would like to think that Pivac has now realised he needed to take a more pragmatic approach to his selection, in particular Wyn Jones, Tomas Francis and Adam Beard looking as though they are now first choices. Previously he had gone for more mobile players who struggled at the set piece, which put Wales at a disadvantage from the off. We can all see the benefits of picking props who can reliably carry the ball forward, and/or get to the tackle area quickly, but not at the cost of them conceding consecutive scrum penalties, and ending up defending lineouts in your own 22 against teams like England or Ireland.

In his defence he took over a squad that where a number of the senior players had long term injuries, and most of those players have now returned. It would be terrific if Anscombe and Ellis Jenkins were able to achieve their pre-injury standards, this would enhance the squad even more. He is also incredibly lucky that LRZ has come along, a player who has the potential to be Wales’ best ‘get out of jail’ card since Shane Williams !

My gut feeling is that he will still be in post after the Autumn.

Indeed. Obviously it's sport and nothing is for certain, but in the absence of an idiot like Alfie in the dressing room I don't really see a Triple Crown and potentially Championship and Grand Slam winning coach getting forced out at this point.

I demand you name your sauces!!


Just kidding

Wales Online are reporting that Dan Biggar is struggling after getting injured on Saturday. Sheedy to start against Italy then, and Jarrod Evans for the last 20 please. Hope that Biggar will be back for the first 50 minutes or so in Paris.

And Hardy is out, having just earned a run of games at 9 with strong performances v Scotland (from the bench) and England. Looks like Tomos Williams will be available though

Frustrating injury to Hardy, who IMO superglued himself into the 9 jersey last weekend. If Tomos is fit, though, we don't lose much.

Speaking as a veteran Biggar apologist, who thought he was terrific on Saturday; Sheedy has to start. We can't praise him for guiding Wales to a record win against England, then not trust him to do a job on Italy in the next match. If Sheedy & Evans can't comfortably guide us past Italy, then we're not champion material.

Otherwise I think it's correct to stay conservative. I'm still unconvinced by Foxy but if that's the plan, we have to see it through. Possible cases for resting North, Faletau, Francis... but not conclusive ones.

Sourdust wrote:Frustrating injury to Hardy, who IMO superglued himself into the 9 jersey last weekend. If Tomos is fit, though, we don't lose much.

Speaking as a veteran Biggar apologist, who thought he was terrific on Saturday; Sheedy has to start. We can't praise him for guiding Wales to a record win against England, then not trust him to do a job on Italy in the next match. If Sheedy & Evans can't comfortably guide us past Italy, then we're not champion material.

Otherwise I think it's correct to stay conservative. I'm still unconvinced by Foxy but if that's the plan, we have to see it through. Possible cases for resting North, Faletau, Francis... but not conclusive ones.

I hope we don’t make too many unforced changes because there are signs that this youngish Italy side are showing that they are getting better. Familiarity with a largely settled side at home needs only a little luck for Italy to give us a competitive game.

England found them tough to break down at times at Twickenham and it took quite a while for Ireland, with a full team, to take them apart.

A BP win is what we’re after. Make the changes from the bench when that’s achieved.