Lions squad named

[Puja]

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne (Ire), Jack Conan (Ire), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Eng), Tom Curry (Eng), Zander Fagerson (Sco), Taulupe Faletau (Wal), Tadhg Furlong (Ire), Jamie George (Eng), Iain Henderson (Ire), Jonny Hill (Eng), Maro Itoje (Eng), Wyn Jones (Wal), Courtney Lawes (Eng), Ken Owens (Wal), Andrew Porter (Ire), Sam Simmonds (Eng), Rory Sutherland (Sco), Justin Tipuric (Wal), Mako Vunipola (Eng), Hamish Watson (Sco).

Backs: Josh Adams (Wal), Bundee Aki (Ire), Dan Biggar (Wal), Elliot Daly (Eng), Gareth Davies (Wal), Owen Farrell (Eng), Chris Harris (Sco), Robbie Henshaw (Ire), Stuart Hogg (Sco), Conor Murray (Ire), Ali Price (Sco), Lewis Rees-Zammit (Wal), Finn Russell (Sco), Duhan van der Merwe (Sco), Anthony Watson (Eng), Liam Williams (Wal).

Daly and Jonny Hill are very, very, very lucky tourists. Lawes is a bit flukey as well, although I can understand why Gatland would want him. I still cannot believe that Ford isn't going and it feels wrong that May isn't. Not surprised that there's no Sinckler - he's been pretty average since moving to Bristol and hopefully this is the kick up the backside that he needs.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne (Ire), Jack Conan (Ire), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Eng), Tom Curry (Eng), Zander Fagerson (Sco), Taulupe Faletau (Wal), Tadhg Furlong (Ire), Jamie George (Eng), Iain Henderson (Ire), Jonny Hill (Eng), Maro Itoje (Eng), Wyn Jones (Wal), Courtney Lawes (Eng), Ken Owens (Wal), Andrew Porter (Ire), Sam Simmonds (Eng), Rory Sutherland (Sco), Justin Tipuric (Wal), Mako Vunipola (Eng), Hamish Watson (Sco).

Backs: Josh Adams (Wal), Bundee Aki (Ire), Dan Biggar (Wal), Elliot Daly (Eng), Gareth Davies (Wal), Owen Farrell (Eng), Chris Harris (Sco), Robbie Henshaw (Ire), Stuart Hogg (Sco), Conor Murray (Ire), Ali Price (Sco), Lewis Rees-Zammit (Wal), Finn Russell (Sco), Duhan van der Merwe (Sco), Anthony Watson (Eng), Liam Williams (Wal).

Daly and Jonny Hill are very, very, very lucky tourists. Lawes is a bit flukey as well, although I can understand why Gatland would want him. I still cannot believe that Ford isn't going and it feels wrong that May isn't. Not surprised that there's no Sinckler - he's been pretty average since moving to Bristol and hopefully this is the kick up the backside that he needs.

Puja

Agreed, I think Farrell is pretty lucky too (even if it's no surprise). It seems wrong that Ford will never get a lions cap, May as well. I hope the change of scene invigorates Daly.

I hope Simmonds rewards Gatland but I fear he and Hill will end with the tacklebags.

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Disagree about Sinckler. Think he's the most glaring omission. He might not have been at his best for Briz but in the 6N he was one of the few England players who seemed somewhere near his best. Also, imagine how pumped he would be to face SA after his World Cup Final! Think Porter is a good shout, but I think Fagerson is a tad overrated. I am friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend though so might be slightly biased.
Think Conan is the weirdest selection. I'd have taken Stander (again the storyline is too much to pass up, and he's the kind of player who would give it his all), but also Navidi, Underhill, Ritchie and, yes, even Billy before him.
Hill also seems strange, although I can kind of understand why Gatland thinks he needs a hard man against the Boks, taking someone who, for me, so clearly fluffed his lines at international level seems very unfair to Gray and Ryan.
No Ford is depressing but completely expected, and I have to admit, I was quietly excited about the prospect of Care.
I had Aki pencilled in, and am 50/50 with him as a sensible selection over Tuilagi or Davies... Also Lawes' selection (which I don't have a big problem with, makes no sense in the context of Tuilagi.
Overall it's not too bad or unexpected, think does highlight NH weaknesses in halfback and midfield though.

[Hooky]

Navidi, J Gray, Sinckler, J May, Ford, T Williams, Ringrose, Ryan all can count themselves unlucky.

Decent squad though I think.

[whatisthejava]

Gatland is desperate to sign off with a 2nd win,

The English contingent make sense and almost everyone offers something that couldn’t be provided by the other nations.

Simmonds is weird
Daly was shite during 6N but has a 50m boot on him.
A Watson is class
O Farrell won’t make the test team but is world class on his day

Forwards
Dickie - always going to go
J George - realistically who else is there. Mcinally and brown just back from injury
Mako - either him or Healy and he is the better carrier
Itoje - hoping being surrounded by decent players means he doesn’t give away a penalty every 5 seconds
Lawes - a massive hard tackler
Hill a another massive hard carrier
Curry - was always in the mix but prob luckier, Navidi or Richie prob could have covered this position and were more deserving
Simmonds - again a bit of a weird selection

Gray and Ryan were unlucky but look at the squad

Front row are ALL carriers
Second rows (apart from AWJ) are all hard hitting bastards
My gut feeling is he expects Lawes/Itoje/Beirne to pay 6 so he can have Watson/tipuric at 7 and a different option at 8

In the backs too clear strategies
The bombs with Williams, biggar, Aki murray
And the Scotland attack with price/russell/henshaw/Hogg
My gut feel is the wingers are interchangeable and the 13 position will go to whoever defends the best

[Sandydragon]

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne (Ire), Jack Conan (Ire), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Eng), Tom Curry (Eng), Zander Fagerson (Sco), Taulupe Faletau (Wal), Tadhg Furlong (Ire), Jamie George (Eng), Iain Henderson (Ire), Jonny Hill (Eng), Maro Itoje (Eng), Wyn Jones (Wal), Courtney Lawes (Eng), Ken Owens (Wal), Andrew Porter (Ire), Sam Simmonds (Eng), Rory Sutherland (Sco), Justin Tipuric (Wal), Mako Vunipola (Eng), Hamish Watson (Sco).

Backs: Josh Adams (Wal), Bundee Aki (Ire), Dan Biggar (Wal), Elliot Daly (Eng), Gareth Davies (Wal), Owen Farrell (Eng), Chris Harris (Sco), Robbie Henshaw (Ire), Stuart Hogg (Sco), Conor Murray (Ire), Ali Price (Sco), Lewis Rees-Zammit (Wal), Finn Russell (Sco), Duhan van der Merwe (Sco), Anthony Watson (Eng), Liam Williams (Wal).

Daly and Jonny Hill are very, very, very lucky tourists. Lawes is a bit flukey as well, although I can understand why Gatland would want him. I still cannot believe that Ford isn't going and it feels wrong that May isn't. Not surprised that there's no Sinckler - he's been pretty average since moving to Bristol and hopefully this is the kick up the backside that he needs.

Puja

There were always likely to be a few shocks. Most of the selection makes sense, although a few players who might be considered a bit fortunate.

Gatland has of course got one eye on the type of game he wants to play and will pick to suit. A few unlucky players, Sinkler and Navidi spring to mind but on the whole no issues with this squad. With so few warm up games many of the outside choices will need to hit the ground running to get anywhere near the test team.

[Mellsblue]

Daly, Farrell and Hill are all very lucky. The first two have credit in the bank but Hill is a shock. I’d imagine height and weight stats played a large role.
Does twelve locks and back rows suggests 6/2 split on the bench?

[Gloskarlos]

Navidi, J Gray, Sinckler, J May, Ford, T Williams, Ringrose, Ryan all can count themselves unlucky.

Decent squad though I think.

This.

Agree with Mells, adding in Lawes to the lucky list, and arguably Farrell.

Think I feel most for Jonny May, been one of the best wings in the world for the last 4 years, then caught up in a shite England 6N and a Glos rebuilding which has scuppered Lions chances. This was his only shot I reckon.

[jngf]

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne (Ire), Jack Conan (Ire), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Eng), Tom Curry (Eng), Zander Fagerson (Sco), Taulupe Faletau (Wal), Tadhg Furlong (Ire), Jamie George (Eng), Iain Henderson (Ire), Jonny Hill (Eng), Maro Itoje (Eng), Wyn Jones (Wal), Courtney Lawes (Eng), Ken Owens (Wal), Andrew Porter (Ire), Sam Simmonds (Eng), Rory Sutherland (Sco), Justin Tipuric (Wal), Mako Vunipola (Eng), Hamish Watson (Sco).

Backs: Josh Adams (Wal), Bundee Aki (Ire), Dan Biggar (Wal), Elliot Daly (Eng), Gareth Davies (Wal), Owen Farrell (Eng), Chris Harris (Sco), Robbie Henshaw (Ire), Stuart Hogg (Sco), Conor Murray (Ire), Ali Price (Sco), Lewis Rees-Zammit (Wal), Finn Russell (Sco), Duhan van der Merwe (Sco), Anthony Watson (Eng), Liam Williams (Wal).

Daly and Jonny Hill are very, very, very lucky tourists. Lawes is a bit flukey as well, although I can understand why Gatland would want him. I still cannot believe that Ford isn't going and it feels wrong that May isn't. Not surprised that there's no Sinckler - he's been pretty average since moving to Bristol and hopefully this is the kick up the backside that he needs.

Puja

Agreed, I think Farrell is pretty lucky too (even if it's no surprise). It seems wrong that Ford will never get a lions cap, May as well. I hope the change of scene invigorates Daly.

I hope Simmonds rewards Gatland but I fear he and Hill will end with the tacklebags.

Disagree re Simmonds - I think he will make test team at 7

[Cameo]

Pretty sensible comments here. A few selections I would disagree with but mainly around the fringes.

Hill is the strangest one for me in that unlike Simmonds he has had his chances at international level and unlike Daly he can't override bad international form on the basis that he has shown it in the past.

In terms of who has missed out, I think there will be a few back rows feeling a bit miffed. Can see a logic in Simmonds going but do think it is a step up to international level and there are a number who have shown they can excel there.

In the backs, would have liked someone like Ringrose or even Slade (or, in my dreams, H Jones) just to mix it up.

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

OK, this is my predicted 23 for the first test (I.e. what I think Gatland will go for barring injuries/other unforeseens).
1 Vunipola (Think this would be a big mistake, but then I think not bringing Marler and Healy might prove a big mistake too, Jones deserves a place on form, but I think he may well get munched too.)
2 George (Just imagine he's viewed as the best all round pick for Gatland)
3 Furlong ()
4 Itoje ()
5 Jones ()
6 Lawes (He's picked him for a reason (unfortunate, but I think it's this!) and is a huge Gatland favourite)
7 Really don't know! Could be any of Curry, Tipuric or Watson and have a horrible feeling Gatland will pick Curry (not that Curry is bad, just at 6 and alongside Lawes! Personally I'd have him on the bench and Beirne and Watson at 6 & 7)
8 Faletau ()
9 Murray (Gatland will view him as calming and trustworthy rather than a spent force, he might be right.)
10 Biggar ( there's no Ford so I guess )
11 Watson ()
12 Farrell (come on, you all know this is happening, even though nobody wants it)
13 Henshaw (should absolutely start, just at 12)
14 Adams (Is a really good finisher, but I think we'd all like to see LRZ given a go, just can't see it happening)
15 Williams (won't trust Hogg, but again, he might have a point, even though I think most of us would take the risk.)
---
16 Cowan-Dickie (Owens had a great 6N, but I reckon Gatland wants him as a personality rather than on the field)
17 Jones ()
18 Porter (no Sinckler so )
19 Henderson (could well be Hill, insanely)
20 Beirne (absolutely deserves to start at 6 for me but...)
21 Simmonds (I think this is the role envisaged for him. Bring him on for the last 20 and expect him to run riot. Not convinced it'll happen though)
22 Davies (Price would probably start for me but I think Gatland will have him as a midweeker)
23 Daly (again, all kinds of wrong but he's surely been picked specifically for the 23 shirt whilst Farrell is in the first choice XV. Weirdly think he'll probably do well as long as he's kept away from full back)

It's definitely not what I'd want, it's just, for me, this is what the squad selection is pointing to. All the 50/50's just seem to point toward a 6/2 split and trying their damndest to physically match the Boks while having versatility over out and out talent in the backs.

[Banquo]

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne (Ire), Jack Conan (Ire), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Eng), Tom Curry (Eng), Zander Fagerson (Sco), Taulupe Faletau (Wal), Tadhg Furlong (Ire), Jamie George (Eng), Iain Henderson (Ire), Jonny Hill (Eng), Maro Itoje (Eng), Wyn Jones (Wal), Courtney Lawes (Eng), Ken Owens (Wal), Andrew Porter (Ire), Sam Simmonds (Eng), Rory Sutherland (Sco), Justin Tipuric (Wal), Mako Vunipola (Eng), Hamish Watson (Sco).

Backs: Josh Adams (Wal), Bundee Aki (Ire), Dan Biggar (Wal), Elliot Daly (Eng), Gareth Davies (Wal), Owen Farrell (Eng), Chris Harris (Sco), Robbie Henshaw (Ire), Stuart Hogg (Sco), Conor Murray (Ire), Ali Price (Sco), Lewis Rees-Zammit (Wal), Finn Russell (Sco), Duhan van der Merwe (Sco), Anthony Watson (Eng), Liam Williams (Wal).

Daly and Jonny Hill are very, very, very lucky tourists. Lawes is a bit flukey as well, although I can understand why Gatland would want him. I still cannot believe that Ford isn't going and it feels wrong that May isn't. Not surprised that there's no Sinckler - he's been pretty average since moving to Bristol and hopefully this is the kick up the backside that he needs.

Puja

Agreed, I think Farrell is pretty lucky too (even if it's no surprise). It seems wrong that Ford will never get a lions cap, May as well. I hope the change of scene invigorates Daly.

I hope Simmonds rewards Gatland but I fear he and Hill will end with the tacklebags.

Disagree re Simmonds - I think he will make test team at 7

Pretty unlikely given he has three test class opensides in front of him and his test match experience there is ....zip. I do think he'd make a high quality 7, but its not the role he performs for Exeter.

[Banquo]

OK, this is my predicted 23 for the first test (I.e. what I think Gatland will go for barring injuries/other unforeseens).
1 Vunipola (Think this would be a big mistake, but then I think not bringing Marler and Healy might prove a big mistake too, Jones deserves a place on form, but I think he may well get munched too.)
2 George (Just imagine he's viewed as the best all round pick for Gatland)
3 Furlong ()
4 Itoje ()
5 Jones ()
6 Lawes (He's picked him for a reason (unfortunate, but I think it's this!) and is a huge Gatland favourite)
7 Really don't know! Could be any of Curry, Tipuric or Watson and have a horrible feeling Gatland will pick Curry (not that Curry is bad, just at 6 and alongside Lawes! Personally I'd have him on the bench and Beirne and Watson at 6 & 7)
8 Faletau ()
9 Murray (Gatland will view him as calming and trustworthy rather than a spent force, he might be right.)
10 Biggar ( there's no Ford so I guess )
11 Watson ()
12 Farrell (come on, you all know this is happening, even though nobody wants it)
13 Henshaw (should absolutely start, just at 12)
14 Adams (Is a really good finisher, but I think we'd all like to see LRZ given a go, just can't see it happening)
15 Williams (won't trust Hogg, but again, he might have a point, even though I think most of us would take the risk.)
---
16 Cowan-Dickie (Owens had a great 6N, but I reckon Gatland wants him as a personality rather than on the field)
17 Jones ()
18 Porter (no Sinckler so )
19 Henderson (could well be Hill, insanely)
20 Beirne (absolutely deserves to start at 6 for me but...)
21 Simmonds (I think this is the role envisaged for him. Bring him on for the last 20 and expect him to run riot. Not convinced it'll happen though)
22 Davies (Price would probably start for me but I think Gatland will have him as a midweeker)
23 Daly (again, all kinds of wrong but he's surely been picked specifically for the 23 shirt whilst Farrell is in the first choice XV. Weirdly think he'll probably do well as long as he's kept away from full back)

It's definitely not what I'd want, it's just, for me, this is what the squad selection is pointing to. All the 50/50's just seem to point toward a 6/2 split and trying their damndest to physically match the Boks while having versatility over out and out talent in the backs.

Wyn Jones will start imo. Beirne has been picked as a back row for a reason- Lawes subbing if fit. TBH if Beirne starts, he may stick the likes of Tipuric on the bench if he wants to change shape. The backs is anyone's guess; could well be Aki and Henshaw, with Biggar at 10.

[switchskier]

It's an interesting squad with a few wildcards thrown in. However the worry is that we try to out South Africa the masters of that game. I'd be pretty concerned if we went into the first test with a backline of Murray/Farrell/Aki/Harris, at which point it doesn't really matter which wingers you pick. I'd definitely have had Ringrose in the squad for some variety.

Love big Duhan on the wing but I'm going to be having nightmares of him trying to defend Kolbe if isolated on the wing. Don't think that he'll start though.

[Banquo]

It's an interesting squad with a few wildcards thrown in. However the worry is that we try to out South Africa the masters of that game. I'd be pretty concerned if we went into the first test with a backline of Murray/Farrell/Aki/Harris, at which point it doesn't really matter which wingers you pick. I'd definitely have had Ringrose in the squad for some variety.

Love big Duhan on the wing but I'm going to be having nightmares of him trying to defend Kolbe if isolated on the wing. Don't think that he'll start though.

Its clearly a horses for courses squad, with a few oddities in that context.

Duhan is excellent going forwards.....but pretty lucky to be ahead of the likes of May imo.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Daly at 13 outside Henshaw, but would be equally worried on defence.

[jngf]

A contributory factor for Jonny Hill being selected is that he is the one lock in Lions squad of comparable physical size and presence to match the likes of Ezebeth, Snyman and de Jäger? Feel for Launchbury missing out on Lions again.

[whatisthejava]

I just cant see past Chris Harris at 13, he is what JD was 4 years and unless he has a run of bad form I just think he is there

Tandy loves him
Toony loves him
Cant see why Gatland wouldnt want him considering Gats love of JD

[Banquo]

I just cant see past Chris Harris at 13, he is what JD was 4 years and unless he has a run of bad form I just think he is there

Tandy loves him
Toony loves him
Cant see why Gatland wouldnt want him considering Gats love of JD

Nothing like as good in attack imo. He's become an excellent defender.

[Big D]

Its clearly a horses for courses squad, with a few oddities in that context.

Duhan is excellent going forwards.....but pretty lucky to be ahead of the likes of May imo.

It feels weird seeing Scots get the 50/50 or even 40/60 calls. It is all unsettling.

I wouldn't necessarily say though that it was Duhan or May, same as I don't think it was Hiil V Gray in the second row. Duhan is rapid but he offers a physical presence that the others don't. I suspect they'd have pencilled in who they liked best (Hogg, Williams, Watson and probably Adams), decided they want Duhan as the big physical winger and then compared May to LRZ.

Not the way I would go about discussing selection but could see how it could go that way. In a stats and data driven performance world it would have been difficult to leave Duhan out although I absolutely accept there is an argument to do so.

[Banquo]

Its clearly a horses for courses squad, with a few oddities in that context.

Duhan is excellent going forwards.....but pretty lucky to be ahead of the likes of May imo.

It feels weird seeing Scots get the 50/50 or even 40/60 calls. It is all unsettling.

I wouldn't necessarily say though that it was Duhan or May, same as I don't think it was Hiil V Gray in the second row. Duhan is rapid but he offers a physical presence that the others don't. I suspect they'd have pencilled in who they liked best (Hogg, Williams, Watson and probably Adams), decided they want Duhan as the big physical winger and then compared May to LRZ.

Not the way I would go about discussing selection but could see how it could go that way. In a stats and data driven performance world it would have been difficult to leave Duhan out although I absolutely accept there is an argument to do so.

Didn't say it was (ahead of 'the likes of May')- just think he was fortunate to be on the list with a lot of wings about- his defence isn't great. At least he can help with directions on tour.

As I said, its a horses for courses selection.

[Sandydragon]

Its clearly a horses for courses squad, with a few oddities in that context.

Duhan is excellent going forwards.....but pretty lucky to be ahead of the likes of May imo.

It feels weird seeing Scots get the 50/50 or even 40/60 calls. It is all unsettling.

I wouldn't necessarily say though that it was Duhan or May, same as I don't think it was Hiil V Gray in the second row. Duhan is rapid but he offers a physical presence that the others don't. I suspect they'd have pencilled in who they liked best (Hogg, Williams, Watson and probably Adams), decided they want Duhan as the big physical winger and then compared May to LRZ.

Not the way I would go about discussing selection but could see how it could go that way. In a stats and data driven performance world it would have been difficult to leave Duhan out although I absolutely accept there is an argument to do so.

I think Dugan has benefitted from North’s injury. I’m not convinced that gatland would have used him in the centre but he certainly like a big winger and Dugan can fill that gap. As you say it’s then a battle for the other wingers and I am really pleased that LRZ has his opportunity. I’m not sure he will make the test team if playing tomorrow but he’s the sort of player who might force himself into consideration.

[Big D]

I think Dugan has benefitted from North’s injury. I’m not convinced that gatland would have used him in the centre but he certainly like a big winger and Dugan can fill that gap. As you say it’s then a battle for the other wingers and I am really pleased that LRZ has his opportunity. I’m not sure he will make the test team if playing tomorrow but he’s the sort of player who might force himself into consideration.

Must admit my initial thought was Daly and Harris were the main beneficiaries of that. Then I thought it was perhaps Aki as North being out left a big body in the centres short.

Equally plausible one of the back 3 were the main beneficiary.

[paddy no 11]

So it will be Bernie or lawes at 6? And hence selects 2 pretty mobile 8s in conan and Simmonds for balance?

[Spiffy]

The squad looks short of nippy, ball-playing centres capable of bring the pacy back three into the game. Gatland has gone for midfield lumps with defence obviously in mind (though Henshaw is quite good in both attack and defence.) That said, there were few footballing centres sticking their hands up.
Sorry to see May missing. I'd have him ahead of the reliable Adams for the X factor. Earls was probably better than either in the 6N. Small but tough, still fast and the clinical finisher.

[paddy no 11]

Think Adams is a super winger, no doubts about him at all