RugbyRebels

Zhivago wrote:Wouldn't it be a great idea to simply ban sales of petrol and diesel cars?

UKHamlet wrote:The internal combustion engine as a mobile unit is in its death throes. It's only a matter of time before it gets booted... Oh, and a few technological advances.

Zhivago wrote:Wouldn't it be a great idea to simply ban sales of petrol and diesel cars?

Sandydragon wrote:Too soon. Electric cars are advanced enough yet and hybrids still require some kind of fuel. You also have to wonder where the electricity to charge them will be coming from given how close to the edge our power production already is.

Hydrogen looks interesting for the future. Perhaps in 10 years when there is an alternative, which has good range and doesn't mean re-mortgaging your home to buy then I'd agree with more drastic measures to get polluting vehicles off the road. At the moment, for much of the country there just isn't an alternative.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Too soon. Electric cars are advanced enough yet and hybrids still require some kind of fuel. You also have to wonder where the electricity to charge them will be coming from given how close to the edge our power production already is.

Hydrogen looks interesting for the future. Perhaps in 10 years when there is an alternative, which has good range and doesn't mean re-mortgaging your home to buy then I'd agree with more drastic measures to get polluting vehicles off the road. At the moment, for much of the country there just isn't an alternative.

Ban is from 2025... read the article

canta_brian wrote:Doesn't every other Dutchman spend the entire summer towing a carravan around the smaller highways of Europe? Can't see them changing to electric all that fast.

Might drive people to change their old bangers for a newer internal combustion car over the next few years to see them into the future a bit so it could be a fiscal stimulus for the standard car market. Can always cross a border to fill them up on the continent. I would be looking at selling my petrol stations soonish if I was a shell franchisee that's for sure.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Too soon. Electric cars are advanced enough yet and hybrids still require some kind of fuel. You also have to wonder where the electricity to charge them will be coming from given how close to the edge our power production already is.

Hydrogen looks interesting for the future. Perhaps in 10 years when there is an alternative, which has good range and doesn't mean re-mortgaging your home to buy then I'd agree with more drastic measures to get polluting vehicles off the road. At the moment, for much of the country there just isn't an alternative.

Ban is from 2025... read the article

onlynameleft wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Too soon. Electric cars are advanced enough yet and hybrids still require some kind of fuel. You also have to wonder where the electricity to charge them will be coming from given how close to the edge our power production already is.

Hydrogen looks interesting for the future. Perhaps in 10 years when there is an alternative, which has good range and doesn't mean re-mortgaging your home to buy then I'd agree with more drastic measures to get polluting vehicles off the road. At the moment, for much of the country there just isn't an alternative.

Ban is from 2025... read the article

That's not the question. The question is whether now is the time to commit to electricity instead of other alternative methods of propulsion which seems to me to be what the article is saying the Dutch hope to do. They are also seeking to commit to a ban now regardless of when it starts, hence, without wishing to put words in Sandy's mouth, the too soon comment.

onlynameleft wrote:

canta_brian wrote:Doesn't every other Dutchman spend the entire summer towing a carravan around the smaller highways of Europe? Can't see them changing to electric all that fast.

Might drive people to change their old bangers for a newer internal combustion car over the next few years to see them into the future a bit so it could be a fiscal stimulus for the standard car market. Can always cross a border to fill them up on the continent. I would be looking at selling my petrol stations soonish if I was a shell franchisee that's for sure.

There was a car scrappage scheme here a few years back, guaranteed sum for your old banger. It had a very positive effect on sales of smaller and (on the whole) less polluting cars although, as I recall, even Porsche sold 10 new ones under the scheme.

Numbers wrote:The new Tesla does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

onlynameleft wrote:

Numbers wrote:The new Tesla does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

Range is the real day to day issue with electric though isn't it? There's no doubt electric power produces tremendous acceleration because the engines produce maximum torque from zero revs. This is the main reason cars like La Ferrari and Porsche 918 use hybrid power, it's not about fuel economy.
Besides, the electricity still has to be produced somewhere, quite often in a polluting coal fired power station. And of course disposing of the batteries at the end of their life.
Hydrogen looks promising. Just needs some infrastructure.

onlynameleft wrote:

Numbers wrote:The new Tesla does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

Range is the real day to day issue with electric though isn't it? There's no doubt electric power produces tremendous acceleration because the engines produce maximum torque from zero revs. This is the main reason cars like La Ferrari and Porsche 918 use hybrid power, it's not about fuel economy.
Besides, the electricity still has to be produced somewhere, quite often in a polluting coal fired power station. And of course disposing of the batteries at the end of their life.
Hydrogen looks promising. Just needs some infrastructure.

UKHamlet wrote:The internal combustion engine as a mobile unit is in its death throes. It's only a matter of time before it gets booted... Oh, and a few technological advances.

Numbers wrote:The new Tesla does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

Two interesting events took place this month. Tesla announced its Model 3, a relatively affordable electric car, and it attracted around 180K preorders on the same day. That was before the company actually revealed the car. There were more than 250K preorders in the first 36 hours. Oh, and the run rate is about 1,500 per hour of preorders for this car right now.

To be clear, that means a huge number of people now have deposits down on a car they likely won't get until late next year.

Ford opened preorders for its new Ford GT, and only 500 people actually will get to buy this US$400K car -- and as of right now, you still can order one of those 500. There have been no lines for this arguably even more amazing car.

It likely cost more to develop the Ford GT than it did to develop the Model 3, and assuming it sells them all, Ford will make a total of around $200M. By the time it ships the Model 3, Tesla should have at least 500K preorders at an average price of around $40K each. That's about $20B in revenue.