Olympics

[Digby]

I'm fine with people being different, some happy to make the Olympics, some happy to medal and some only happy with winning. Also in this instance he's on the back of a split decision with not much time to process. And actually whilst yes I'm glad people can see the bigger picture that there's an element of being cross with not winning is a good thing, it's part of driving standards

[Which Tyler]

This climbing is absolutely insane - hadn't realised it was a 3-event event.

What do we think about these ridiculously young competitors - average age of all 6 women's skateboarding medalists is 14, with the Japanese silver medalist aged 12.
There won't be any hard and fast answer, but I really question whether they're psychologically mature enough to cope with the pressure - not so much now, but creating problems for 10-20 years time. I'm sure this has come up with other sports before (tennis, gymnastics and the combat sports spring to mind) with a lower age limit required.
And that's without looking at the long and inglorious issue of abuse / exploitation.

[Which Tyler]

What follows is a rant... Apologies.

Depends on the event, depends on the individual/team.

There's a huge difference between "I've put in PBs in each round, but was just beaten by someone better" and "I'm better than this guy; I've got 6 times faster than is best; I had him in this race, but I fucked up and lost my stride" or again to (mostly team events) "I may not have been able to beat these guys anyway, but I just failed to perform and am really disappointed with myself"

I say this not being sure who Ben Whittaker is, or what he's done to deserve this rant.

[Donny osmond]

Absolutely agree there's a big difference between "I'm disappointed but gave it my best" and "I'm a failure for not winning gold, nothing else is good enough".

The former, I'm with it all day long, I get you're disappointed but well done for staying classy. The latter, you're just a little bitch who's trying to act the big man.

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[Donny osmond]

I think Whittaker's interview stood out as being particularly crass because it was on just after I'd watched the girls skateboarding and they were all so lovely and delighted for each other and supporting each other no matter who won what, even the Japanese girl who went last and crashed out of the medals by falling on the last trick of her last run having been on the podium up until that point, it was such a fantastic display of 'the Olympic spirit' and then sour puss comes on and gives the most graceless interview I've ever seen - it would insult petulant children to say he acted like one. The difference was stark.

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[Mikey Brown]

What do we think about these ridiculously young competitors - average age of all 6 women's skateboarding medalists is 14, with the Japanese silver medalist aged 12.
There won't be any hard and fast answer, but I really question whether they're psychologically mature enough to cope with the pressure - not so much now, but creating problems for 10-20 years time. I'm sure this has come up with other sports before (tennis, gymnastics and the combat sports spring to mind) with a lower age limit required.
And that's without looking at the long and inglorious issue of abuse / exploitation.

I assumed skateboarding is a bit of an anomaly, with it relying so little on physical strength/development, and there being a huge number of young kids on the regular competition circuit as standard.

I suppose that doesn’t answer anything about the psychological aspect of it. Are the restrictions you mentioned with other sports there because there have been some sort of studies in to the mental effects? There must be a ton of skateboarders now who were competing in the x games or whatever at a very young age 20 years ago. I’d be curious to know if any studies have been done.

My assumption was they don’t go through the same kind of rigorous training, mentoring schedule as something like gymnastics but I’m probably miles off when we’re talking about Olympic level athletes.

[Puja]

I agree that Whittaker could've shown a lot more grace (and respect towards the gold medallist), but do remember that there are different types of silver medals in different sports. For things like skateboarding or running, you've just *won* a medal - you had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and have managed to get into the top three, beating out the other competitors on the day.

For sports with a grand final, winning silver means you've just lost. You had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and you were beaten. You failed. In a two horse race, you came last.

Given time and perspective, I've no doubt that you would be proud of what you'd accomplished earlier in the day/week/month to make that final, but right there and then, you've just lost and I can thoroughly empathise with people who can't be joyful about their silver in that moment.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

there are different types of silver medals in different sports. For things like skateboarding or running, you've just *won* a medal - you had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and have managed to get into the top three, beating out the other competitors on the day.

For sports with a grand final, winning silver means you've just lost. You had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and you were beaten. You failed. In a two horse race, you came last.

Given time and perspective, I've no doubt that you would be proud of what you'd accomplished earlier in the day/week/month to make that final, but right there and then, you've just lost and I can thoroughly empathise with people who can't be joyful about their silver in that moment.

[Donny osmond]

I agree that Whittaker could've shown a lot more grace (and respect towards the gold medallist), but do remember that there are different types of silver medals in different sports. For things like skateboarding or running, you've just *won* a medal - you had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and have managed to get into the top three, beating out the other competitors on the day.

For sports with a grand final, winning silver means you've just lost. You had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and you were beaten. You failed. In a two horse race, you came last.

Given time and perspective, I've no doubt that you would be proud of what you'd accomplished earlier in the day/week/month to make that final, but right there and then, you've just lost and I can thoroughly empathise with people who can't be joyful about their silver in that moment.

Puja

Good shout, and maybe I've been unfair on him, but like I say it was a pretty stark contrast with others, e.g. the super heavyweight guy who won bronze yesterday and was as graceful and respectful as you like, or the cyclists who got silver in their team pursuits who are in the same boat being in a grand final

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[Puja]

I agree that Whittaker could've shown a lot more grace (and respect towards the gold medallist), but do remember that there are different types of silver medals in different sports. For things like skateboarding or running, you've just *won* a medal - you had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and have managed to get into the top three, beating out the other competitors on the day.

For sports with a grand final, winning silver means you've just lost. You had your moment, worked as hard as you could, and you were beaten. You failed. In a two horse race, you came last.

Given time and perspective, I've no doubt that you would be proud of what you'd accomplished earlier in the day/week/month to make that final, but right there and then, you've just lost and I can thoroughly empathise with people who can't be joyful about their silver in that moment.

Puja

Good shout, and maybe I've been unfair on him, but like I say it was a pretty stark contrast with others, e.g. the super heavyweight guy who won bronze yesterday and was as graceful and respectful as you like, or the cyclists who got silver in their team pursuits who are in the same boat being in a grand final

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I do agree with you that he was pretty graceless about it - definitely should not have taken the medal off during the anthems when the focus should have been on celebrating the winner. Lack of respect for the winner, although he did at least apologise for it afterwards.

I don't have a problem with the football and rugby not wearing theirs/taking them off after having them presented - I view that as private grief, since they didn't make a big deal on the platform and they both stood respectfully and applauded the winners.

I say all this as a person who binned his cup final runner up medal when he last moved house (albeit we only beat one team to make it there and I didn't play that game, so I didn't have any attachment to the journey).

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Well that's gutting for KJT, insult to injury - literally

[fivepointer]

Sailing team and the horsey set are delivering. Boxers doing well. Whittaker didnt react well to losing but a silver medal is no mean feat and he was up against a high class opponent.

I enjoyed the sport climbing today, which isnt something i thought i'd be typing.

[Mellsblue]

I enjoyed the sport climbing today, which isnt something i thought i'd be typing.

Reminds me of Gladiators which reminds me of Jet/Diane Youdale which means I too enjoyed the sport climbing.

[Galfon]

UK Sport apparently set a broad range of between 45 and 70 for the Tokyo Games,
(51 medals won in Beijing in 2008, 67 in Rio in 2016.)
Three-quarters in (12/16 d) the total count (48) v.closely matches the previous 2 efforts at the same stage. (Rio, Lon.)
Sitting 4th behind China, USA and Russia in total medals is some going..heartwarming to see the spread of success and the genuine joy it has brought.
Not sure about track & field ( 1 medal to date from 69 won ).Would have been nice to have a few more in the mix.

[Banquo]

UK Sport apparently set a broad range of between 45 and 70 for the Tokyo Games,
(51 medals won in Beijing in 2008, 67 in Rio in 2016.)
Three-quarters in (12/16 d) the total count (48) v.closely matches the previous 2 efforts at the same stage. (Rio, Lon.)
Sitting 4th behind China, USA and Russia in total medals is some going..heartwarming to see the spread of success and the genuine joy it has brought.
Not sure about track & field ( 1 medal to date from 69 won ).Would have been nice to have a few more in the mix.

Athletics has been unsurprising though- two of our hopes were badly crocked too close to the games. The 800m silver was a Bobby bonus. Hopefully get a boxing gold, but not sure what’s left in to get us up the table again- seem to be slightly adrift in cycling a la rowing.
It is great to see the range of sports where we are doing well; there will be some tough questions to answer in rowing, athletics and even cycling wrt funding.

[Which Tyler]

It is great to see the range of sports where we are doing well; there will be some tough questions to answer in rowing, athletics and even cycling wrt funding.

IMO, the problem for both was a lack of competition for the last 18 months (same for everyone, obviously); which meant that everyone was sat in their own velodrome / on their own lake, measuring their fastest times, and how to go about getting there, and perfecting all the little details in training that most just don't spend that time on whilst also competing.
It was always those little details and final flourishes that put GB ahead.
The combination of losing long-standing coaches in Brailsford and Gröbler, and everyone else catching up on the 1%s just put us behind the 8-ball; or at best, we misjudged where the competition was going to be, and was happy with the times we'd though would be good enough.

Athletics - we just don't have much talent at the moment; and the talent we do have, arrived already injured

[Banquo]

It is great to see the range of sports where we are doing well; there will be some tough questions to answer in rowing, athletics and even cycling wrt funding.

IMO, the problem for both was a lack of competition for the last 18 months (same for everyone, obviously); which meant that everyone was sat in their own velodrome / on their own lake, measuring their fastest times, and how to go about getting there, and perfecting all the little details in training that most just don't spend that time on whilst also competing.
It was always those little details and final flourishes that put GB ahead.
The combination of losing long-standing coaches in Brailsford and Gröbler, and everyone else catching up on the 1%s just put us behind the 8-ball; or at best, we misjudged where the competition was going to be, and was happy with the times we'd though would be good enough.

Athletics - we just don't have much talent at the moment; and the talent we do have, arrived already injured

Yep, as I mentioned before on 1% and Grobler. So that’s why questions need to be asked on prep- as you said, other countries faced coviddy issues too. And on athletics I said it was unsurprising but again, if we don’t have the talent, yet continue to fund, questions need answering.

[Galfon]

Thought some of the startling times looked a bit odd- combination of added track and shoe spring/bounce in some cases ('mechanical doping') maybe..?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/58084865
Only a matter of time before rugby/soccer/hockey etc develop their own shoe...(aerial challenges ? show me the outside ? cop for that !
Vorsprung durch technik

[Galfon]

there will be some tough questions to answer in rowing, athletics and even cycling wrt funding.

Yes there has to be based on results alone I think.
(rowing for example gets a huge slice of the cake atm).
The accessibility and inclusive nature of other sports that have gone well will raise a strong argument for changes.

[Donny osmond]

Whittaker quote on the BBC below. Seems like I was too harsh in what I said, for which apologies (if he should be a secret rebeller). Slightly ironic that I'm guilty of reacting without pause for thought in much the same way I accused him of. Ah well, life eh?

More from Ben Whittaker on BBC Radio 5 Live: "I could've represented myself better but I'm a true competitor at the end of the day - if I'm playing PlayStation with my friends and I lose I'm upset - if I'm running round the track and I lose I'm upset.

"That's the way I am it's the way I've been brought up - I have a winners mentality. If I could rewind and do it again of course I would change it but it's said and done now and all I can do is try and right the wrongs.

"It's just the person I am, I strive to be the best in everything I do and I fell short. He [opponent Arlen Lopez] is a great boxer - in 2014 I wasn't a GB boxer and me and my dad used to watch him on YouTube and my dad said one day you'll fight this guy and I said 'whatever dad' and then yesterday a dream come true - I fought him in the Olympic final.

"I wish it wasn't him because he was a great boxer, but I've got a silver medal. Probably what I'll do now is get the spray paint out and turn it gold! But it is what it is, I'm proud of my accomplishment and we go from there."

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[Banquo]

Great gold in the Omnium. Working out all the permutations whilst cycling at 50 kph is bloody impressive

[Puja]

Whittaker quote on the BBC below. Seems like I was too harsh in what I said, for which apologies (if he should be a secret rebeller). Slightly ironic that I'm guilty of reacting without pause for thought in much the same way I accused him of. Ah well, life eh?

More from Ben Whittaker on BBC Radio 5 Live: "I could've represented myself better but I'm a true competitor at the end of the day - if I'm playing PlayStation with my friends and I lose I'm upset - if I'm running round the track and I lose I'm upset.

"That's the way I am it's the way I've been brought up - I have a winners mentality. If I could rewind and do it again of course I would change it but it's said and done now and all I can do is try and right the wrongs.

"It's just the person I am, I strive to be the best in everything I do and I fell short. He [opponent Arlen Lopez] is a great boxer - in 2014 I wasn't a GB boxer and me and my dad used to watch him on YouTube and my dad said one day you'll fight this guy and I said 'whatever dad' and then yesterday a dream come true - I fought him in the Olympic final.

"I wish it wasn't him because he was a great boxer, but I've got a silver medal. Probably what I'll do now is get the spray paint out and turn it gold! But it is what it is, I'm proud of my accomplishment and we go from there."

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Excellent response (both him and you).

Puja

[Banquo]

Whittaker quote on the BBC below. Seems like I was too harsh in what I said, for which apologies (if he should be a secret rebeller). Slightly ironic that I'm guilty of reacting without pause for thought in much the same way I accused him of. Ah well, life eh?

More from Ben Whittaker on BBC Radio 5 Live: "I could've represented myself better but I'm a true competitor at the end of the day - if I'm playing PlayStation with my friends and I lose I'm upset - if I'm running round the track and I lose I'm upset.

"That's the way I am it's the way I've been brought up - I have a winners mentality. If I could rewind and do it again of course I would change it but it's said and done now and all I can do is try and right the wrongs.

"It's just the person I am, I strive to be the best in everything I do and I fell short. He [opponent Arlen Lopez] is a great boxer - in 2014 I wasn't a GB boxer and me and my dad used to watch him on YouTube and my dad said one day you'll fight this guy and I said 'whatever dad' and then yesterday a dream come true - I fought him in the Olympic final.

"I wish it wasn't him because he was a great boxer, but I've got a silver medal. Probably what I'll do now is get the spray paint out and turn it gold! But it is what it is, I'm proud of my accomplishment and we go from there."

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Excellent response (both him and you).

Puja

I think there is a lot to be said for not interviewing before they have had time to reflect, especially when they’ve lost.

[Big D]

UK Sport apparently set a broad range of between 45 and 70 for the Tokyo Games,
(51 medals won in Beijing in 2008, 67 in Rio in 2016.)
Three-quarters in (12/16 d) the total count (48) v.closely matches the previous 2 efforts at the same stage. (Rio, Lon.)
Sitting 4th behind China, USA and Russia in total medals is some going..heartwarming to see the spread of success and the genuine joy it has brought.
Not sure about track & field ( 1 medal to date from 69 won ).Would have been nice to have a few more in the mix.

Athletics has been unsurprising though- two of our hopes were badly crocked too close to the games. The 800m silver was a Bobby bonus. Hopefully get a boxing gold, but not sure what’s left in to get us up the table again- seem to be slightly adrift in cycling a la rowing.
It is great to see the range of sports where we are doing well; there will be some tough questions to answer in rowing, athletics and even cycling wrt funding.

Wee bit to go on cycling yet, but we have had a pretty golden generation of real class cyclists (Hoy, the Kennys, Wiggins, Clancy and others) that it is pretty hard to continue to dominate and not expect other countries to catch up a bit and generational talents to appear from elsewhere.

The Italian pursuit time was incredible.

[Banquo]

UK Sport apparently set a broad range of between 45 and 70 for the Tokyo Games,
(51 medals won in Beijing in 2008, 67 in Rio in 2016.)
Three-quarters in (12/16 d) the total count (48) v.closely matches the previous 2 efforts at the same stage. (Rio, Lon.)
Sitting 4th behind China, USA and Russia in total medals is some going..heartwarming to see the spread of success and the genuine joy it has brought.
Not sure about track & field ( 1 medal to date from 69 won ).Would have been nice to have a few more in the mix.

Athletics has been unsurprising though- two of our hopes were badly crocked too close to the games. The 800m silver was a Bobby bonus. Hopefully get a boxing gold, but not sure what’s left in to get us up the table again- seem to be slightly adrift in cycling a la rowing.
It is great to see the range of sports where we are doing well; there will be some tough questions to answer in rowing, athletics and even cycling wrt funding.

Wee bit to go on cycling yet, but we have had a pretty golden generation of real class cyclists (Hoy, the Kennys, Wiggins, Clancy and others) that it is pretty hard to continue to dominate and not expect other countries to catch up a bit and generational talents to appear from elsewhere.

The Italian pursuit time was incredible.

True, went a bit early on the cycling, and as you say, phenomenal generation passing through, and this games a year late for Kenny J. But still feel we haven’t quite been doing the marginal gains stuff listening to Hoy and Boardman; there is also some implied criticism of the bike technology- though Brailsford always said that was a bit of kidology. And I think we have been a bit surprised by some teams standards: the lead Italian pursuiter was phenomenal to ensure riding down the Dutch, it’s true.
Perhaps we’ve been spoiled for over a decade!