RugbyRebels

So are you in, or are you out?

Technically EU <> Europe

I am in, geographically and in this context.

On basis of no one apparently having the first clue on how to handle us coming out, I'll be voting in, reluctantly.

That might well change.

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Every time I read/listen to some good reason for staying in, someone else comes along writing/saying something convincing that makes me want to leave.

I'm genuinely undecided, though lectures from the President of the USA might make me vote to leave.

fivepointer wrote:Every time I read/listen to some good reason for staying in, someone else comes along writing/saying something convincing that makes me want to leave.

I'm genuinely undecided, though lectures from the President of the USA might make me vote to leave.

My arse is growing splinters on this one. I'm yet to be convinced that Brexit would be worth the ago, even though my heart wants us to leave the EU and, as you say, being lectured by Obama only serves to push me further to voting out.

My biggest concern is that after years of pressing for us to leave, none of the Brexiteers really has a plan for how Britain would deal with the impact and what we would look like in 5 years time.

I heard an interview with Irvine Walsh where he said that at current levels of immigration in 20 years there will be only 1 tax player for every pensioner. It's around 3:1at the moment.

Access to the European unions labour markets solve this. Oh and in 20 odd years I will be a pensioner so I am voting in.

Always been very pro European Can't really put my finger on why, and that goes back more that 30 years

I just hate that "brexit" is a phrase people are using, sincerely or otherwise, so entirely on that basis I'm saying stay.

You'd have to be insane to want to stay in.

The EU needs to go the way of the dodo. The UK should lead its demise.

Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.

UGagain wrote:You'd have to be insane to want to stay in.

The EU needs to go the way of the dodo. The UK should lead its demise.

You probably have decent enough reasons and information for that opinion but most of the people I've talked to that want out say 'coz theres 2 many fukn immigrants innit mate'

While telling me, an immigrant that they somehow don't find offensive because I'm white and speak english as a first language. Voting to leave for that reason alone is pathetic and the term 'Brexit' sums up the intelligence of the younger generation in Britain that are thick as mud.

Len wrote:

UGagain wrote:You'd have to be insane to want to stay in.

The EU needs to go the way of the dodo. The UK should lead its demise.

You probably have decent enough reasons and information for that opinion but most of the people I've talked to that want out say 'coz theres 2 many fukn immigrants innit mate'

While telling me, an immigrant that they somehow don't find offensive because I'm white and speak english as a first language. Voting to leave for that reason alone is pathetic and the term 'Brexit' sums up the intelligence of the younger generation in Britain that are thick as mud.

Immigration has nought to do with my stance. The xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty strong in Europe too.

Len wrote:

UGagain wrote:You'd have to be insane to want to stay in.

The EU needs to go the way of the dodo. The UK should lead its demise.

You probably have decent enough reasons and information for that opinion but most of the people I've talked to that want out say 'coz theres 2 many fukn immigrants innit mate'

While telling me, an immigrant that they somehow don't find offensive because I'm white and speak english as a first language. Voting to leave for that reason alone is pathetic and the term 'Brexit' sums up the intelligence of the younger generation in Britain that are thick as mud.

It's weird, isn't it? I had several conversations when I was living in Britain with natives who were adamant that I wasn't "really an immigrant." When pressed, most of them would waffle about NZers and Aussies being "sort of one of us, like" or come straight out and say "well you was part of the Empire intcha?" and then re-clarify when you point out that Pakistan was too.

The most surreal occasion was having this conversation with an English-born Sikh mate of mine, who was married to an Italian. Mind you, I'm pretty sure was on the WUM with that.

In the words of the great Duncan Bannatyne "I'm out". I have a feeling the country will vote to remain though, the bunch of no ball bottlers that we are. I predict a 2/3's to 1/3 split to the stays.

UGagain wrote:

Len wrote:

UGagain wrote:You'd have to be insane to want to stay in.

The EU needs to go the way of the dodo. The UK should lead its demise.

You probably have decent enough reasons and information for that opinion but most of the people I've talked to that want out say 'coz theres 2 many fukn immigrants innit mate'

While telling me, an immigrant that they somehow don't find offensive because I'm white and speak english as a first language. Voting to leave for that reason alone is pathetic and the term 'Brexit' sums up the intelligence of the younger generation in Britain that are thick as mud.

Immigration has nought to do with my stance. The xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty strong in Europe too.

I would love for there to be some balanced discussion of the pros and cons of leaving the EU. However it seems so polarised that we will never get that before the vote happens. It seems to me that the stay voices are at least coming up with a few figures and suggesting some things that could cause the UK problems if we do leave.

I know that UG is unlikely to be a huge fan of the imf, but if they are saying there would be a negative effect on the UK economy in the eventuality of a brexit I would expect the leave campaign try and show why there isn't rather than simply saying they are wrong/have no right to express an option (Obama) etc. At the moment the leave campaing are just telling me anyone elses opinions are wrong without offering any of their own.

The far right are about to have a president elected in Austria
The euro crisis is far from over
But if we vote to stay in we accept the next further steps to a super state and all that entails.
Obama can open his border with Mexico and give Canada $600 million per week and we can then discuss his views

There are some parallels between in/out of the EU and the Scottish Independent referendum. It is easier to make a case for maintaining what is in place than convincing people that leaving is the best option.

The leave side has little or no firm figures for leaving because no one is willing to come out and say "yes we would trade with the UK if they leave".

The "in" side can throw out figures and play the "negative" angle of leaving a lot easier than the other side can be "positive" about leaving.

gthedog wrote: But if we vote to stay in we accept the next further steps to a super state and all that entails.

I'm more for shaking it all about.

Expect more of this if if the Leave vote wins.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... referendum

canta_brian wrote:

UGagain wrote:

Len wrote:
You probably have decent enough reasons and information for that opinion but most of the people I've talked to that want out say 'coz theres 2 many fukn immigrants innit mate'

While telling me, an immigrant that they somehow don't find offensive because I'm white and speak english as a first language. Voting to leave for that reason alone is pathetic and the term 'Brexit' sums up the intelligence of the younger generation in Britain that are thick as mud.

Immigration has nought to do with my stance. The xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment is pretty strong in Europe too.

I would love for there to be some balanced discussion of the pros and cons of leaving the EU. However it seems so polarised that we will never get that before the vote happens. It seems to me that the stay voices are at least coming up with a few figures and suggesting some things that could cause the UK problems if we do leave.

I know that UG is unlikely to be a huge fan of the imf, but if they are saying there would be a negative effect on the UK economy in the eventuality of a brexit I would expect the leave campaign try and show why there isn't rather than simply saying they are wrong/have no right to express an option (Obama) etc. At the moment the leave campaing are just telling me anyone elses opinions are wrong without offering any of their own.

Any figures being bandied about can be dismissed as misinformation. There is simply no way to forecast the things they claim to be forecasting. These neoclassical economists that get trundled out by the political/media class have been wrong about everything so why give them any credence?

You could make a steady income betting against the IMF's predictions.

These are people who in a sane world would be in gaol for malpractice.

I'd suggest you stop listening to the cacophony of pundits and insiders, turn off the tellybox and have a good look at what the EU is and what it has done to the living standards of Europeans of late.

It's not a pretty picture.

I'm also undecided, mostly because I can't believe much of what I'm told by either side. Rather poetically, I like the idea of the British Union, so why not a European Union and maybe (likely not) a World Union. So, at the moment I'm stuck with the thought that the EU is fundamentally undemocratic, despite the MEP's, so for that reason alone I'll likely vote to leave.

At my age the argument to leave a warm bar to go and find something better needs to be a lot stronger than, 'let's leave the bar and go and stand outside and see what comes along.'

Can someone make me a mug of Horlicks?

It's a much different scenario for me, and many others I know. If the UK does leave, what will happen to my work situation? Will I still be eligible to work in the EU? Will I need to get a visa? Will I need to leave the EU and then come back?

It's not the responsibility of the stay campaign to answer these questions, it's the responsibility of the leave one. And I have not seen a single answer.