Cameo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:54 am
Even from a Scottish point of view I find that very interesting.
I agree the final lem could have gone the other way. Though I also agree Youngs' kick with advantage was truly terrible.
No reason for you to pick on it but that Russell kick straight out that you mention clearly landed in, and I was surprised wasn't overruled as it was shown clearly before the lineout was taken.. I'll take it though as we scored from the next few phases.
Yeah I’m fairly at peace with the closing penalty, got to say I’d only really been watching Ritchie and felt he was on his feet, but it wouldn’t shock me to hear of Richie Gray flopping over a ruck.
The touch kick you mentioned and Malin’s grounding could definitely have taken another look, and there were two suspiciously forward looking English passes at key moments too. These things tend to even themselves out though.
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:38 am
as before, I'm loving the bias confirmation on kicking it away .
I'd hope the Borthanator has as good a view of what the issues were in the game .
Yeah. There was one bit where it was stated that Smith had no options to pass so kicked putting Scotland under pressure, who then shanked their exit kick letting us restart our attack in midfield… and is then pulled up for not kicking for a chip and chase. It’s not exactly top draw play by the sounds of things but it’s not ‘kicking away decent attacking ball’. I suppose that’s the nature of sport, and particularly a multifaceted one such as rugby, it’s all very subjective.
All that said, I appreciate the time and effort.
Not unfair (and I did hesitate about putting in the bit about the chip being on, as it felt massively hypocritical as I wrote it, but I kept it because it was on at that point. Would've preferred the other option of running at the knackered forwards on the wing though). I probably tied myself into a corner by starting the tally chart, tbh, as I went into it looking for things to add to the list and that one was probably a bit harsh (especially since I'd let Youngs off one earlier). I think my major issue with it was that it was our ball, on the edge of the 22, and we came to the conclusion that the best thing we could do was not to reset and rebuild, but to kick it to Scotland and hope they screw it up.
Cameo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:54 am
Even from a Scottish point of view I find that very interesting.
I agree the final lem could have gone the other way. Though I also agree Youngs' kick with advantage was truly terrible.
No reason for you to pick on it but that Russell kick straight out that you mention clearly landed in, and I was surprised wasn't overruled as it was shown clearly before the lineout was taken.. I'll take it though as we scored from the next few phases.
Yeah I’m fairly at peace with the closing penalty, got to say I’d only really been watching Ritchie and felt he was on his feet, but it wouldn’t shock me to hear of Richie Gray flopping over a ruck.
The touch kick you mentioned and Malin’s grounding could definitely have taken another look, and there were two suspiciously forward looking English passes at key moments too. These things tend to even themselves out though.
Yeah, I wouldn't've said the ref was excellent, but he was fairly even both sides in the round.
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:38 am
as before, I'm loving the bias confirmation on kicking it away .
I'd hope the Borthanator has as good a view of what the issues were in the game .
Yeah. There was one bit where it was stated that Smith had no options to pass so kicked putting Scotland under pressure, who then shanked their exit kick letting us restart our attack in midfield… and is then pulled up for not kicking for a chip and chase. It’s not exactly top draw play by the sounds of things but it’s not ‘kicking away decent attacking ball’. I suppose that’s the nature of sport, and particularly a multifaceted one such as rugby, it’s all very subjective.
All that said, I appreciate the time and effort.
Not unfair (and I did hesitate about putting in the bit about the chip being on, as it felt massively hypocritical as I wrote it, but I kept it because it was on at that point. Would've preferred the other option of running at the knackered forwards on the wing though). I probably tied myself into a corner by starting the tally chart, tbh, as I went into it looking for things to add to the list and that one was probably a bit harsh (especially since I'd let Youngs off one earlier). I think my major issue with it was that it was our ball, on the edge of the 22, and we came to the conclusion that the best thing we could do was not to reset and rebuild, but to kick it to Scotland and hope they screw it up.
Puja
Even if being scrupulously fair, 5 or so kicks attacking on or about their 22 that lead to nothing is a very bad.
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:38 am
as before, I'm loving the bias confirmation on kicking it away .
I'd hope the Borthanator has as good a view of what the issues were in the game .
Yeah. There was one bit where it was stated that Smith had no options to pass so kicked putting Scotland under pressure, who then shanked their exit kick letting us restart our attack in midfield… and is then pulled up for not kicking for a chip and chase. It’s not exactly top draw play by the sounds of things but it’s not ‘kicking away decent attacking ball’. I suppose that’s the nature of sport, and particularly a multifaceted one such as rugby, it’s all very subjective.
All that said, I appreciate the time and effort.
Not unfair (and I did hesitate about putting in the bit about the chip being on, as it felt massively hypocritical as I wrote it, but I kept it because it was on at that point. Would've preferred the other option of running at the knackered forwards on the wing though). I probably tied myself into a corner by starting the tally chart, tbh, as I went into it looking for things to add to the list and that one was probably a bit harsh (especially since I'd let Youngs off one earlier). I think my major issue with it was that it was our ball, on the edge of the 22, and we came to the conclusion that the best thing we could do was not to reset and rebuild, but to kick it to Scotland and hope they screw it up.
Puja
All fair enough. I’m nitpicking, partly because I wouldn’t view that as ‘decent attacking ball’ but mostly because I’m a bit despondent that it looks like Farrell is still undroppable despite stinking up the place, a low kicking percentage, a myriad of deficiencies and all that on top of the fact he’s blocking the road of one of a very limited number of eq players who, imo, could become world class.
As Birgitte Nybourg would say, I don’t comment on speculation as no doubt when the teams announced all the speculation will be wrong but in the meantime, and as Snoop Borthy Borth hasn’t had the courtesy to phone me and tell me that he’s only dropping Smith as he’s time limited and this time next year he’ll build England’s attack around him and Ford, I’m a bit pissed off.
Interesting thing noted on Squidge's analysis of the game, he thinks England have taken Quins kicking tactics which are based around kicking on the front foot and looking to disorganise the opposition defence as opposed to Tigers kick when you lose momentum and look to target the catcher.
Very different from how Eddie chose to kick (that being closer to the Tigers strategy) and might explain some of the errors and defensive misreads on kick chase. Hopefully it'll have bedded in by this weekend.
Managed to see his take on the kicking stuff before he went full self parody mode on there being no reason for Jones to have been let go, and on a 1 off move, which could be Genge getting in the way of a pass not meant for him, being the earthshaking development of a new trend in rugby pod systems of the type he was telling us we needed to keep Eddie for 3 months ago.
16th man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:16 pm
Managed to see his take on the kicking stuff before he went full self parody mode on there being no reason for Jones to have been let go, and on a 1 off move, which could be Genge getting in the way of a pass not meant for him, being the earthshaking development of a new trend in rugby pod systems of the type he was telling us we needed to keep Eddie for 3 months ago.
I wonder how many of the players see his videos? They must be aware of him. There must be some baffling moments of him assigning this complex, strategic intent to incidents that are actually complete fluke/improv.
16th man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:16 pm
Managed to see his take on the kicking stuff before he went full self parody mode on there being no reason for Jones to have been let go, and on a 1 off move, which could be Genge getting in the way of a pass not meant for him, being the earthshaking development of a new trend in rugby pod systems of the type he was telling us we needed to keep Eddie for 3 months ago.
I wonder how many of the players see his videos? They must be aware of him. There must be some baffling moments of him assigning this complex, strategic intent to incidents that are actually complete fluke/improv.
Haha - the Genge one he bangs on about I'm sure Genge just abandoned his role as the inside man too early and got in the way. I'm not convinced it helped the try either, him and Farrell were so close together that I don't think they committed any extra players.
Like his videos generally though, lots to think about and look out for. Just shouldn't be taken as gospel.
16th man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:16 pm
Managed to see his take on the kicking stuff before he went full self parody mode on there being no reason for Jones to have been let go, and on a 1 off move, which could be Genge getting in the way of a pass not meant for him, being the earthshaking development of a new trend in rugby pod systems of the type he was telling us we needed to keep Eddie for 3 months ago.
I don't know whether the whole Genge thing was pre planned or not but it's the type of thing that could really mess with a modern international defence where it's all about recognising patterns which why Eddie was trying to go positionless. Sliding between patterns mid move is the type of thing that if you're known for will calm down opposition rush defences as they're worried about over committing and being caught out. Gives more time to probe for space and find mismatches.
16th man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:16 pm
Managed to see his take on the kicking stuff before he went full self parody mode on there being no reason for Jones to have been let go, and on a 1 off move, which could be Genge getting in the way of a pass not meant for him, being the earthshaking development of a new trend in rugby pod systems of the type he was telling us we needed to keep Eddie for 3 months ago.
I don't know whether the whole Genge thing was pre planned or not but it's the type of thing that could really mess with a modern international defence where it's all about recognising patterns which why Eddie was trying to go positionless. Sliding between patterns mid move is the type of thing that if you're known for will calm down opposition rush defences as they're worried about over committing and being caught out. Gives more time to probe for space and find mismatches.
Yes, but I'd wait until I saw us do it more than once before banging on about it being a brave new world of flexible attacking structures, rather than just a prop being in the way.
I've not watched a huge number of his videos, but he seems very good at spotting things, and pointing them out.
But he can certainly get carried away with himself and extrapolate things out too far; and I'm never sure if he's seen a pattern, or someone simply changing their mind on being in the wrong place and running with it anyway. There will inevitably be elements of both.
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:33 pm
I've not watched a huge number of his videos, but he seems very good at spotting things, and pointing them out.
But he can certainly get carried away with himself and extrapolate things out too far; and I'm never sure if he's seen a pattern, or someone simply changing their mind on being in the wrong place and running with it anyway. There will inevitably be elements of both.
His presentation style is very twattish though.
Agree with all of this but the final sentence means I can’t watch… but I’m guessing grumpy old man isn’t his target demographic. They said, he will forever have a place in my heart for the in defence of George Ford vid even, as usual, he got a bit too carried away!
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:33 pm
I've not watched a huge number of his videos, but he seems very good at spotting things, and pointing them out.
But he can certainly get carried away with himself and extrapolate things out too far; and I'm never sure if he's seen a pattern, or someone simply changing their mind on being in the wrong place and running with it anyway. There will inevitably be elements of both.
His presentation style is very twattish though.
Hard to argue with any of that. I think the grating presentation style is just about worth it for occasional belly laugh though. Mako and his 34 year old face got me pretty good.
