Page 1 of 1
South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:27 pm
by Lizard
Sometimes you might say Tonga is an upset chance. Not this time. Tonga's game plan of relying on ageing stars of yesteryear with no discernible defensive pattern has been surprisingly exposed.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:32 pm
by Puja
Yeah, I'd love for Tonga to turn them over, but it's just not going to happen. There's been so much talk of the eligibility changes upending World Rugby, but they've made precious little difference so far. It turns out that building a team out of aging cast-offs from other nations is not a route to success (cf. late 2000s Japan and 2010s Italy) and the main beneficiaries have been Wales and Scotland gathering a bit of squad depth with astute scouting.
Puja
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:34 pm
by Lizard
The much better strategy appears to be to take your WR funding and put it into establishing a single professional team into which you concentrate most of your national team, and which plays in a higher league than your own domestic comp:
Fiji/Drua/Super Rugby Pacific
Uruguay/Peñarol/Super Rugby Americas
Georgia/Black Lion/Rugby Europe Super Cup
Chile/Selknam/Super Rugby Americas
I think it is no coincidence that Japan and Argentina have ceased to advance since the demise of the Sunwolves and Jaguares in Super Rugby.
Namibia and Romania, despite having largely home-based players, have not done this and have struggled. Given that each lives right next door to a major international domestic competition, they should be encouraged to do so. Samoa and Tonga have to share Moana Pasifika which makes it difficult to use as a national vehicle.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:18 pm
by switchskier
Lizard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:34 pm
The much better strategy appears to be to take your WR funding and put it into establishing a single professional team into which you concentrate most of your national team, and which plays in a higher league than your own domestic comp:
Fiji/Drua/Super Rugby Pacific
Uruguay/Peñarol/Super Rugby Americas
Georgia/Black Lion/Rugby Europe Super Cup
Chile/Selknam/Super Rugby Americas
I think it is no coincidence that Japan and Argentina have ceased to advance since the demise of the Sunwolves and Jaguares in Super Rugby.
Namibia and Romania, despite having largely home-based players, have not done this and have struggled. Given that each lives right next door to a major international domestic competition, they should be encouraged to do so. Samoa and Tonga have to share Moana Pasifika which makes it difficult to use as a national vehicle.
Ireland may be the best example, with huge amounts of talent concentrated in Lenister and the Dublin schools system, supplemented by exceptional talent from Munster and Ulster. Wales were very good when the best players were concentrated at the Ospreys but spreading it around hasn't worked as well (other factors obviously also at play).
Anyways, SA by 55 I reckon.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:47 am
by Spiffy
switchskier wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:18 pm
Lizard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:34 pm
The much better strategy appears to be to take your WR funding and put it into establishing a single professional team into which you concentrate most of your national team, and which plays in a higher league than your own domestic comp:
Fiji/Drua/Super Rugby Pacific
Uruguay/Peñarol/Super Rugby Americas
Georgia/Black Lion/Rugby Europe Super Cup
Chile/Selknam/Super Rugby Americas
I think it is no coincidence that Japan and Argentina have ceased to advance since the demise of the Sunwolves and Jaguares in Super Rugby.
Namibia and Romania, despite having largely home-based players, have not done this and have struggled. Given that each lives right next door to a major international domestic competition, they should be encouraged to do so. Samoa and Tonga have to share Moana Pasifika which makes it difficult to use as a national vehicle.
Ireland may be the best example, with huge amounts of talent concentrated in Lenister and the Dublin schools system, supplemented by exceptional talent from Munster and Ulster. Wales were very good when the best players were concentrated at the Ospreys but spreading it around hasn't worked as well (other factors obviously also at play).
Anyways, SA by 55 I reckon.
Yes. But nonetheless, three of Ireland's four starting threequarters (Hansen, Aki, Lowe) are not native Irishmen (plus scrum half Gibson-Park). They are all there legally of course, identify strongly with with the squad, and I support them to the hilt. But still, I would like to see some Irish born players making a strong challenge for those shirts. (and to be honest, Ireland are no different in this respect from NZ, France, Australia, Scotland, all of whom recruit widely.)
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:16 am
by Lizard
Correctly managed, Ireland’s current success should lead to an increase in skilled players taking up the game locally. Compare the nakedly recruited numbers in 2 or 3 RWCs time.
On that note, is Bundee Aki the first player to be the best NZ-born player in his position at a RWC but not playing for NZ?
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:12 am
by Which Tyler
Lizard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:16 amOn that note, is Bundee Aki the first player to be the best NZ-born player in his position at a RWC but not playing for NZ?
Given the history of the PIs at RWCs - highly unlikely (though absolutely possible)
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:39 am
by Lizard
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:12 am
Lizard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:16 amOn that note, is Bundee Aki the first player to be the best NZ-born player in his position at a RWC but not playing for NZ?
Given the history of the PIs at RWCs - highly unlikely (though absolutely possible)
Although NZ has provided probably the majority of Samoa's RWC players, and a fair proportion of Tonga's, I can't think off the top of my head of one who was better than their All Black equivalent.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:49 am
by Lizard
Lizard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:39 am
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 10:12 am
Lizard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:16 amOn that note, is Bundee Aki the first player to be the best NZ-born player in his position at a RWC but not playing for NZ?
Given the history of the PIs at RWCs - highly unlikely (though absolutely possible)
Although NZ has provided probably the majority of Samoa's RWC players, and a fair proportion of Tonga's, I can't think off the top of my head of one who was better than their All Black equivalent.
Actually, Frank Bunce playing for Samoa in 1991 was probably better than All Black Craig Innes.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:56 pm
by Puja
South Africa team to face Tonga: Le Roux; Williams, Moodie, Esterhuizen, Mapimpi; Pollard, Reinach; Nche, Fourie, Koch, Etzebeth, Orie, Kolisi (capt), Vermeulen, Wiese.
Replacements: Van Staden, Kitshoff, Nyakane, Mostert, Smith, Hendrikse, Kriel, Libbok.
A 5:3 bench!
South Africa picking a part-time hooker to start and a no-time hooker on the bench. Bold move Cotton...
I don't think Tonga have enough to worry them though. Shame, cause it'd be hilarious, but this'll be regulation for them.
Puja
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:33 pm
by BaldiePete
I don’t know who the next actual hooker off the rank for SA would be but he must be sitting at home just now, really pissed off. Marx gets injured and he thinks I’m going to be the next Stephen Donald but Rassie had other ideas.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:24 pm
by pompey-zebra
Enjoyable game this so far. Tonga putting on most of the pressure, Boks scoring two tries from their two visits to the Tonga 22.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:40 pm
by pompey-zebra
BaldiePete wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:33 pm
I don’t know who the next actual hooker off the rank for SA would be but he must be sitting at home just now, really pissed off. Marx gets injured and he thinks I’m going to be the next Stephen Donald but Rassie had other ideas.
To be fair, Fourie's done well so far. Hitting his mark in the line out, and just scored a try off the back of a drive.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:43 pm
by morepork
Get in Tonga.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:49 pm
by paddy no 11
Much improved from tonga, the no 8 way better than fifita
There 2nd rows having their best games
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:52 pm
by paddy no 11
A question for the rules knowledgeable
Like pearce doesn't give a mark of where the penalty off which reinach scores its probably from the right place but should it be allowed?
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:19 pm
by morepork
Ahaha. Sucked in LeRoux.
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:46 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Etzebeth pretty much does a Curry. Ref is about to give a yellow for bunker review then is dissuaded by the TMO? Not a card at all? I don't get it (except that they've bottled the whole red card thing when it comes to big names).
Re: South Africa v Tonga (Sun/Mon)
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 7:15 am
by Mikey Brown
Yep. They’ve just given up. I have total sympathy for Etzebeth there, but it’s clear they just can’t be arsed with the controversy and can always say “low degree of danger + mitigation” to backtrack out of any card-worthy incident.