England vs Wales - minute-by-minute

[Puja]

Minute 51: Replay shows that the ball actually went into touch because Steward got a slight charge down on the kick and so it's belatedly a Welsh lineout rather than an English one.

Wales throw to the middle and Englad defend the maul very well, with a low counter drive and Chessum and Underhill swinging around the side to make mischief. If I'm Welsh, I'm annoyed at Underhill's manouevring there - I think that's textbook losing your bind and swimming up the side - but he does such a good job of communicating with and listening to the ref that I think we'll call that skilled rather than lucky. Wales splinter, Underhill gets onto the ball and, as it collapses, we kill it for our scrum put-in.

Minute 52: Genge and Cole on, and I'll reiterate how good Stuart has been. Excellent workrate, both in attack and defence. Not flashy, but definitely some good stuff. That is the most exciting part of this minute, as no scrum happens.

Minute 53: The referee stops the unstable scrum, has a chat to everyone, lets them take forever to rebind up, and the minute ends before he even gets to "Bind!"

Minute 54: This collapse is probably Genge's fault, but once again the referee resets it and has a little chat with the front rows about expectations. The crowd starts whistling. His chat finishes at 53.30. Both sides are finally bound up and ready to go at 53.55. Once again, we do not get to "Bind" in this minute.

Minute 55: Finally we get a scrum done, which I suppose the referee would argue vindicates his little chat, but we should not be having three minutes of the m-b-m where I get away with not having to write much in absence of scrummaging.

Earl breaks from the base and is well tackled by Williams, but Dingwall and Underhill do a fantastic job of clearing out and it's secure enough for us to build our very hungry caterpillar and box-kick away. Terrific touch-finder by Mitchell, making a full 40m.

Wales change their 2 and 3, leaving Archie Griffin coming on. He has played 117 minutes of Premiership rugby in his entire career, that being 6 subs appearances. To call him callow would be something of an understatement.

[Puja]

Minute 56: Wales take lineout ball in the middle, under pressure from Itoje and they spread it wide for North to run at the midfield - he's stopped well by a decent Dingwall tackle. Unfortunately, Wales spread it wide again and we're faced with another defensive system cock-up. Because Wales have gone across the width of the pitch from a lineout, our forwards haven't pushed across enough and we're once again narrow. This wouldn't be a massive issue, except Daly makes a complete misread - he seems to think Slade will be drifting onto Winnett and, by the time he realises that's his man, he's too wide and can do nothing but a desperate lunge that Winnett easily evades.

The full-back draws and gives to beat Steward in the backfield and I'm looking for the nearest knife for my wrists as Josh Adams is through to the line, but our cover defence is superb. Firstly Freeman is across from the other wing and has the angle on Adams every which way. Adams tries a dummy, but Ford and George have outpaced the Welsh support to put themselves in the passing lane - yes, Jamie Fucking George has sprinted back in the 55th minute to shut down a try-scoring pass. Adams attempts to take Freeman on the outside anyway and is unceremoniously stopped - he attempts an offload inside to Dyer, but Ford has him covered and his tackle would've taken him into touch even if it hadn't knocked the ball loose.

The ball rolls over the line by George's feet and TWilliams dives to ground it - when watching for the first time, I was a little bit concerned that Dyer might have grubbered it forwards and that George had been lackadaisical in assuming a knock on and given away the crucial try, so I watched the replays with trepidation, but it a clear knock-on so I was able to put the cutlery back in the drawer.

Minute 57: Wales engage early at the scrum again and the ref resets, presumably on the basis that it's a new tighthead and he needs to have the talking to, but I don't see why - he's been watching the game, he knows what's been going on and that Wales are on penalties for that offence. Just ping him and get on with it. He does at least stop the clock, although still no successful scrum this minute.

Minute 58: The scrum goes down on the far side and the ref blows for an immediate penalty to England, presumably Cole using age and treachery. Ford kicks it down for our lineout just inside our half. We throw long to the back and it's a glorious bit of work - Wales have tried to jump just ahead of Chessum and the throw is inch perfect to be just out of Jenkins's reach and drop neatly into Chessum's hands. It's a well-worked move as well - because it's over the 15, the backs have been able to advance and the ball goes from Chessum to Mitchell to Earl on the crash with perfectly practised and timed smoothness.

Minute 59: Unfortunately, Wales gum up the ruck and it's slow ball, so we set back for another caterpillar - it's not exciting, but it's effective right now. The kick isn't perfect, but it's good enough that Adams is a little worried about who's waiting when he lands, and ends up spilling the ball. Wainwright's lucky not to give away a penalty, because he catches the ball from an offside position and, even if it was reflex, he's stopped George from getting it and making a break.

Minute 60: Genge is fucking with Griffin here - knocking his head against him and nurdling him on crouch to knock him off balance, complaining to the touch judge about his attempted arm-bind and windmilling his arm so he can't keep it, then yanking him forwards and retreating backwards on engage so that it looks like an early shove. The kid will be learning a lot, but it's almost a bit cruel shoving him in the deep end like this. Luckily for the youngster, the ref doesn't bite and instead goes for yet another reset. The touch judge is again playing spectator - he either buys what Genge is selling, in which case it's an England penalty, or he spots the shenanigans and it's a Welsh one (or at least a talking to). A reset should not be one of the options here... but it is and we get no scrummaging done this minute.

[Puja]

Minute 61: Genge once again torments the neophyte and this time gets what he wants - Griffin is poised and teetering on the edge waiting for the Engage call, and it just takes a little tug from Genge to make him topple over into an early engage. Devious work and an England penalty is earned. England kick for touch and get a lineout 5m out.

Minute 62: Wales let England have uncontested ball so they can shove, and we throw to the back so that we can't get pushed into touch. The maul goes sideways and back, but we get enough men around to get a little forward momentum and a good attacking position. Jenkins is lurking (legally) on the wrong side, so Mitchell snipes rather than risk an intercept and makes good ground. It's clean, well-presented ball and George is straight in to carry again, trusting that his forwards will be with him, and we're now ahead of where the lineout was set. It's slower ball though, but Itoje, then Underhill, then Earl make ground with successive strong carries and we're a metre out from the line.

Minute 63: Genge goes for a superman play, picking and running the opposite way from his support in the hope of finding a weak shoulder - he very nearly makes it and does well to curb his enthusiasm and lay it back, rather than being held up over the line. We rumble that same way twice, both repelled, but Wales have now got very tight on that side with defenders sucked in, and Mitchell spreads it wide. Ford takes it to the line and picks the absolute right option and moment to release the ball, but the pass asks a lot of Daly, who takes it on his fingertips and stumbles to try and bring the ball in. He does just enough to drag himself in front of Dingwall and release a pass that is definitely backwards, despite the crying of Welsh supporters who don't understand physics and that a ball can travel forwards despite being passed backwards, for Dingwall to finish well in the corner.

Minute 64: Replays show that Genge was on his way to scoring before Reffell puts in a phenomenal effort to throw his body between the line and the ball. Would've been a try under the posts without that. I don't know who was PotM, but it should've been Reffell by a distance.

Still haven't seen any of this "Reffell destroyed our breakdown" that people have claimed anecdotally - we have lost two attacking rucks by my count, one from a Reffell penalty in minute 3 (which was dubious) and one from Beard's turnover in minute 37 (which was flat-out illegal). For all the complaining about England's back row on here, we have lost 3 attacking rucks in 145 minutes of rugby. That's pretty good.

Ford can't make the difficult conversion and the score remains 13-14. Really nice that we've shown the minerals to go to the backs in that situation, rather than continuing the pick and go game as the "safe" option.

Minute 65: For some variety, Wales kick to the side of the 22 and Mitchell gathers and kicks away. Cunningham-South is on for Underhill, who has also had a quietly effective game with some very useful carries.

Wales throw to the middle, but Chessum competes and spoils - I suspect he plays the arm in the air, but he does it subtly enough to get away with it - and the ball bobbles loose for George to seize upon it at the back. We pass it wide quickly and there's a 3-on-2 in loads of room, with Slade, Steward, and Daly up against North and Grady. Unfortunately, Slade shows himself the heir to Farrell in more ways than just standing at first receiver while wearing a centre shirt, and kicks a good linebreak opportunity away. It is a nice kick though, and puts Winnett under pressure near his line.

I'm saving this for the weekend, so just stopping in to say thanks, as always, and I guess Happy Valentines since for some reason my phone suggested this* emoji after the word always?

*

Even Samsung auto complete loves your work Puja

Love you too darling.

That's me done for the evening and I'll probably finish either tomorrow or some point over the weekend.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Phenomenal work as per usual.

My favourite part of these reviews is the myth busting element.

I often find myself a little confused by some of the versions of events that develop so I enjoy getting some validation. As a case in point, I made a comment to someone on Monday that ‘Reffell had an excellent all round game and should have been POTM, but that doesn’t mean he ‘owned’ our breakdown.’ Both things can be true. I was told I was totally wrong … maybe not.

Similarly, Will Stuart attracts a lot of flak but generally, I like what he does and I think his qualities are underrated.

[Banquo]

Phenomenal work as per usual.

My favourite part of these reviews is the myth busting element.

I often find myself a little confused by some of the versions of events that develop so I enjoy getting some validation. As a case in point, I made a comment to someone on Monday that ‘Reffell had an excellent all round game and should have been POTM, but that doesn’t mean he ‘owned’ our breakdown.’ Both things can be true. I was told I was totally wrong … maybe not.

Similarly, Will Stuart attracts a lot of flak but generally, I like what he does and I think his qualities are underrated.

I like the little details of when someone does an 'unseen' good thing to enable continuity and set up an opportunity a phase or two later; it also highlights what a technical game it is, and within that how important 'micro' contests are.

[FKAS]

I think Reffell being dominant at the breakdown is a symptom of it being seen to be his major skill and the general acknowledgement that he played brilliantly. He was a menace throughout and whilst I didn't think he destroyed our breakdown I am surprised he only has one turnover penalty at 60 mins. He showed some good running lines ball in hand, that link work really boosted the rather languishing Welsh attack.

Will Stuart didn't impress Vs Italy but was much better last weekend, hopefully he can back it up next time out against Scotland.

[FKAS]

Minute 56:
The full-back draws and gives to beat Steward in the backfield

I liked what Steward did here. He committed and buried the Welsh fullback so that even though he's beaten by the pass the Welsh fullback is out of the attack as well. Steward wasn't going to turn and chase down Dyer so by removing Wynnet from the attack he gives the cover defence a better chance of containing the attack. Nothing is worse then letting the opposition pass around you then carry on running to become a support option further up the field.

[FKAS]

Minute 46: Assirati is being given a tuning by Marler and going to ground like someone's taped a £5 note to Joe's boots, but he's let away with it twice - first for a reset, and then for the ball to be played away because it's reached the back. Not the ref's fault as he's round the other side, but the touch judge needs to make a call or buy a ticket and sit with the rest of the spectators.

This made me laugh quite a bit. Top work.

[fivepointer]

Phenomenal work as per usual.

My favourite part of these reviews is the myth busting element.

I often find myself a little confused by some of the versions of events that develop so I enjoy getting some validation. As a case in point, I made a comment to someone on Monday that ‘Reffell had an excellent all round game and should have been POTM, but that doesn’t mean he ‘owned’ our breakdown.’ Both things can be true. I was told I was totally wrong … maybe not.

Similarly, Will Stuart attracts a lot of flak but generally, I like what he does and I think his qualities are underrated.

I struggle with some of the flak he gets. His scrummaging has improved and he isnt anonymous in the loose. Sure i'd like to see more but he looks a perfectly decent TH to me.

Earl's try was largely down to Stuart holding up his side of the scrum (down to 7 at the time) which enabled Earl clean possession and the chance to break.

[Puja]

Minute 56:
The full-back draws and gives to beat Steward in the backfield

I liked what Steward did here. He committed and buried the Welsh fullback so that even though he's beaten by the pass the Welsh fullback is out of the attack as well. Steward wasn't going to turn and chase down Dyer so by removing Wynnet from the attack he gives the cover defence a better chance of containing the attack. Nothing is worse then letting the opposition pass around you then carry on running to become a support option further up the field.

That's a good point and one which bears mentioning - Steward has in the past been guilty of being indecisive in the backfield and neither making one decision or another, sometimes to the extent of just flapping his arms at somebody going past him. This time he did the absolute best with the situation that he had and, as you said, made damned sure that he wasn't letting the player run through to support.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Excellent job again Puja

I like the little details of when someone does an 'unseen' good thing to enable continuity and set up an opportunity a phase or two later; it also highlights what a technical game it is, and within that how important 'micro' contests are.

Hear hear

[Crash Hamster]

You can't help but feel like that's a try that 2024!Daly *can't* score, but another winger might. I don't know if Feyi-Waboso could have, but I fancy his chances more. May be unfair, idk.

So much this, thought it at the time. Daly's line seems to be 'direct for the try line' with no threat of a step. He seems to be lacking guile and pace.

It's all very well picking wingers for aerial and/or defensive capabilities (not sure Daly entirely qualifies, though I am contractually obliged to mention his huge left boot) but how many points do England leave out for not having a pacy, mazy finisher to give the ball to in those positions? France seem to have picked Bielle-Biarrey, who scored a great try from nowhere against Scotland. Why is Sniff Bostik scared to do so?

Thanks so much for these mbms. They're a highlight of the 6N for me.

[FKAS]

You can't help but feel like that's a try that 2024!Daly *can't* score, but another winger might. I don't know if Feyi-Waboso could have, but I fancy his chances more. May be unfair, idk.

So much this, thought it at the time. Daly's line seems to be 'direct for the try line' with no threat of a step. He seems to be lacking guile and pace.

It's all very well picking wingers for aerial and/or defensive capabilities (not sure Daly entirely qualifies, though I am contractually obliged to mention his huge left boot) but how many points do England leave out for not having a pacy, mazy finisher to give the ball to in those positions? France seem to have picked Bielle-Biarrey, who scored a great try from nowhere against Scotland. Why is Sniff Bostik scared to do so?

Thanks so much for these mbms. They're a highlight of the 6N for me.

Daly had the ball in the wrong hand as well so no fend as an option to help him try and get into the corner. I do think he's lost a little bit of his top end finishing.

Bielle-Biarrey arguably cost France at the World Cup as South Africa had some joy targeting him under the high ball and did score on the back of it if memory serves.

I suspect we'll move on from Daly though at the minute having an experienced international and Lions winger alongside the youthful Steward/Freeman combo in that back three. Daly did play well Vs Wales mind.

[Mellsblue]

Good stuff Puja. To reiterate what others have said, it’s brilliant to read the numerous important bits and pieces rather than the highlight driven narrative that he’s missed a tackle/dropped a pass etc and he was therefore utter shoite.
I’m also enjoying the second half notes as I missed the second half due to my rather selfish family demanding that we go out for some food after a day travelling to the Alps. Not sure why I bother with them, tbh.

[Mellsblue]

Bielle-Biarrey arguably cost France at the World Cup as South Africa had some joy targeting him under the high ball and did score on the back of it if memory serves.

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

[Oakboy]

Bielle-Biarrey arguably cost France at the World Cup as South Africa had some joy targeting him under the high ball and did score on the back of it if memory serves.

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

It's almost intriguing to predict what changes will happen once we've lost a match (not that I want us to). Is Scrote Boiler really convinced by his current experience/newcomer blend? At what point will he have another clear-out? Are the coaches still hamstrung by embedded habits? Etc.

[FKAS]

Bielle-Biarrey arguably cost France at the World Cup as South Africa had some joy targeting him under the high ball and did score on the back of it if memory serves.

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

B-B was also selected alongside Penaud and Ramos two experienced internationals. Best part of 90 caps between them. If we were to select a rookie to pair with the rookie Freeman and Steward who despite his number of caps is still only 23 we'd have less than half the caps France had to call on with a lot less big game experience. Daly serves a purpose in the short term.

Same with Care on the bench and to a lesser extent Ford and Slade. Wales made a lot of poor choices towards the end of the game on Saturday. England made more savvy ones to see out the game. It's what that experience gives us in the short term whilst we bed in some of the younger guys, the three Saints in the backline have about 20 caps between them.

As you say rebuilding as well. As fun as it would be to throw the young guys in with a brand new set up in attack and defence (I still don't think it's a good idea to have done the full rebuild again) it would probably do more harm than good once the old boys that make up the rugby media get on their backs and start calling for the return of probably the Ice Man and anyone else with significant numbers of caps.

[Mellsblue]

Bielle-Biarrey arguably cost France at the World Cup as South Africa had some joy targeting him under the high ball and did score on the back of it if memory serves.

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

B-B was also selected alongside Penaud and Ramos two experienced internationals. Best part of 90 caps between them. If we were to select a rookie to pair with the rookie Freeman and Steward who despite his number of caps is still only 23 we'd have less than half the caps France had to call on with a lot less big game experience. Daly serves a purpose in the short term.

Same with Care on the bench and to a lesser extent Ford and Slade. Wales made a lot of poor choices towards the end of the game on Saturday. England made more savvy ones to see out the game. It's what that experience gives us in the short term whilst we bed in some of the younger guys, the three Saints in the backline have about 20 caps between them.

As you say rebuilding as well. As fun as it would be to throw the young guys in with a brand new set up in attack and defence (I still don't think it's a good idea to have done the full rebuild again) it would probably do more harm than good once the old boys that make up the rugby media get on their backs and start calling for the return of probably the Ice Man and anyone else with significant numbers of caps.

All very well and good but a team containing Marler, Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Earl, Underhill, Mitchell, Ford, Slade and Steward could probably afford to carry a rookie winger, and I’d actually include Freeman as a known quality test player despite Slippery Barnacle’s refusal to select him until now. That is the vast majority of the team that you told us performed very well in the World Cup so how picking IFW, Roebuck etc against Italy and a poor Wales is akin to picking B-B against the double world champions I’ll never know.

[Puja]

Minute 66: Winnett puts in a belter of a kick with very little space to work with, and it reaches halfway. Ford passes inside for Earl to crash up well. We recycle and look to go to the backs again, but Ford and Dingwall are not on the same wavelength and the pass goes (backwards) to ground - it's not a great pass from Ford, but also Dingwall seems taken aback that it's come to him and should've taken it. Ford's quick to rescue it, but all momentum has gone, so we put together an obscenely long caterpillar and box-kick again. It's fielded by Grady and Wales set a caterpillar of their own, but this one's a dummy as Williams passes out to Lloyd. I suspect he's looking for the cross-field kick, but spots that Slade has it very well covered, and changes tack late to put up a very average high ball.

Minute 67: Slade comes infield and gathers the high ball on the run, making a dominant carry. Earl and Roots do some great work on the clearout and Mitchell is free to dummy and snipe. His sidestep fools CCS who is coming in on a support line and the pass goes to nobody as they nearly crash into each other. Itoje rescues the ball, but momentum gone again.

We regather it though next phase, with Ford throwing a long miss-pass (dubiously lateral, if we're being picky) to Freeman in space - I think this might literally be the first pass he's received all game, which is terrible. It just seems like everything's come to Daly's wing. Anyway, Freeman beats a defender and then drives into another, giving us good ball in the 22. We go through some phases, mixing up our game - going short for some carries, then wide for Earl to nearly bust through the centre channel. We're not going far forward, but we're stressing the Wales defence and, after a big thump by CCS, we spread it wide. Genge looks like he's going to carry in midfield, but takes it to the line and pops out the back to Ford on the loop and we've got a 5-on-3. Ford commits one and passes, Dingwall commits another and passes, Slade looks like he's taken the last man and set up the try but...

Minute 68: ..., instead of giving the simple pass to Roots, he goes for the superhero pass to Freeman, which is high and floaty and makes him stop to allow the cover to get across. Freeman cuts inside to avoid the touchline, but Mitchell is not there quickly enough to get the ball out, and North does a superb job of driving over the ruck (maybe a bit of side entry, but eh) to turn the ball over to Wales's side. Wales kick long, but fail to make touch and Steward runs it back - he does a piss-poor job of this one, going in too high into a blind alley and does well to get his knee to the floor to save himself from a held-up turnover. It's slow ball though, and we run one phase in an attempt to resuscitating it, before passing back to Ford for a !!!SPIRAL BOMB!!!

Minute 69: It's a very good one and Winnett absolutely loses it in flight, setting himself for the catch a good 5 metres away from where the ball eventually lands. Unfortunately, all of the England chase have cocked it as well, to the extent that there are 7 players (4 English, 3 Welsh) converging on where Winnett thinks the ball is going and it bounces behind all of them. It then jags backwards and bounces into touch a good 15-20m from where it first hit grass. The !!!SPIRAL BOMB!!! is a cruel mistress.

Care is on - good timing from England. Mitchell has looked a bit gassed.

Wales throw to the back of the line and get quick ball into midfield, from which Lloyd puts in a beautifully judged little chip kick. It looks like Slade's got it covered, but Tompkins does excellently to rip it back to Wales's side and they go on a rumble up to halfway. CCS then blitzes up and puts in a punishing hit on the Welsh carrier to knock the wind out of their attack, so it goes back to Lloyd for another kick. I think he's going for a 50:22, but it's hard to tell, as he actually leathers it into the back of Dan Cole's head. It very nearly breaks luckily for Wales, but the bouncing ball won't come to heel and then our defence is up hard.

Minute 70: Wales try again, but Itoje blitzes to put in a dominant tackle and they're going backwards, so it's caterpillar o'clock. The kick is excellent, but Steward's catch is ridiculous. I believe he starts on his own 22 and runs in from there to take the ball 5 metres from the halfway line, climbing over the stationary Dyer in his jump. His momentum means that he actually gains a few metres on falling and we ruck over to get quick ball that is spread to Ford. He has a moment of indecision, first thinking pass, then cross-field, then changes his mind again to double back and go behind his pack. I will forgive him his indecision though, because he then pulls out a 50:22 so sexy that half of Twickenham is erect - lobs the covering defender and bounces a metre from touch before bouncing true, to give an England lineout 17m out.

Quick one tonight - rest probably tomorrow.

Puja

[FKAS]

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

B-B was also selected alongside Penaud and Ramos two experienced internationals. Best part of 90 caps between them. If we were to select a rookie to pair with the rookie Freeman and Steward who despite his number of caps is still only 23 we'd have less than half the caps France had to call on with a lot less big game experience. Daly serves a purpose in the short term.

Same with Care on the bench and to a lesser extent Ford and Slade. Wales made a lot of poor choices towards the end of the game on Saturday. England made more savvy ones to see out the game. It's what that experience gives us in the short term whilst we bed in some of the younger guys, the three Saints in the backline have about 20 caps between them.

As you say rebuilding as well. As fun as it would be to throw the young guys in with a brand new set up in attack and defence (I still don't think it's a good idea to have done the full rebuild again) it would probably do more harm than good once the old boys that make up the rugby media get on their backs and start calling for the return of probably the Ice Man and anyone else with significant numbers of caps.

All very well and good but a team containing Marler, Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Earl, Underhill, Mitchell, Ford, Slade and Steward could probably afford to carry a rookie winger, and I’d actually include Freeman as a known quality test player despite Slippery Barnacle’s refusal to select him until now. That is the vast majority of the team that you told us performed very well in the World Cup so how picking IFW, Roebuck etc against Italy and a poor Wales is akin to picking B-B against the double world champions I’ll never know.

Selecting B-B probably cost France that game.

Before the 6N Freeman had played four times for England, including one game against the Baabaas, he wasn't a known quantity at international level.

I'm not a Daly fan and if you look back I wouldn't have picked him for the Italy or Wales games but he played well against Wales and Borthwick's decision is reasonable in the context of the backline.

If we can get the set up sorted so the team is playing more cohesively then hopefully we can transition on some of the younger guys over the summer.

[p/d]

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

B-B was also selected alongside Penaud and Ramos two experienced internationals. Best part of 90 caps between them. If we were to select a rookie to pair with the rookie Freeman and Steward who despite his number of caps is still only 23 we'd have less than half the caps France had to call on with a lot less big game experience. Daly serves a purpose in the short term.

Same with Care on the bench and to a lesser extent Ford and Slade. Wales made a lot of poor choices towards the end of the game on Saturday. England made more savvy ones to see out the game. It's what that experience gives us in the short term whilst we bed in some of the younger guys, the three Saints in the backline have about 20 caps between them.

As you say rebuilding as well. As fun as it would be to throw the young guys in with a brand new set up in attack and defence (I still don't think it's a good idea to have done the full rebuild again) it would probably do more harm than good once the old boys that make up the rugby media get on their backs and start calling for the return of probably the Ice Man and anyone else with significant numbers of caps.

All very well and good but a team containing Marler, Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Earl, Underhill, Mitchell, Ford, Slade and Steward could probably afford to carry a rookie winger, and I’d actually include Freeman as a known quality test player despite Slippery Barnacle’s refusal to select him until now. That is the vast majority of the team that you told us performed very well in the World Cup so how picking IFW, Roebuck etc against Italy and a poor Wales is akin to picking B-B against the double world champions I’ll never know.

Exactly. Why, oh god why, are we so scared of youth and inexperience . These aren’t kids who have shown pace running from a shoplifting jaunt, these are sportsmen who have been brought through academy’s in a competitive environment in a professional sport. Carrying players just because they have a bag of caps and experience will always be hinderance to our return as a true powerhouse

[Banquo]

It’s about intent, imo. France went into their home World Cup as one of the favourites because of their attack/intent (and because they were at home), and came unstuck against the eventual champions in the match of the tournament, and therefore chose B-B. We’re rebuilding after a Fisher Price My First Rugby Set tactics world cup (I may be aging myself as much as Banquo and Dors have with their love of big band) against a callow and shoite Wales in a match that would struggle to be placed in the top ten performances of the Bedfordshire primary school remedial touch rugby tournament* yet we’re still selecting Daly…

*obvs the premier primary school remedial touch rugby tournament competition in the country.

B-B was also selected alongside Penaud and Ramos two experienced internationals. Best part of 90 caps between them. If we were to select a rookie to pair with the rookie Freeman and Steward who despite his number of caps is still only 23 we'd have less than half the caps France had to call on with a lot less big game experience. Daly serves a purpose in the short term.

Same with Care on the bench and to a lesser extent Ford and Slade. Wales made a lot of poor choices towards the end of the game on Saturday. England made more savvy ones to see out the game. It's what that experience gives us in the short term whilst we bed in some of the younger guys, the three Saints in the backline have about 20 caps between them.

As you say rebuilding as well. As fun as it would be to throw the young guys in with a brand new set up in attack and defence (I still don't think it's a good idea to have done the full rebuild again) it would probably do more harm than good once the old boys that make up the rugby media get on their backs and start calling for the return of probably the Ice Man and anyone else with significant numbers of caps.

All very well and good but a team containing Marler, Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Earl, Underhill, Mitchell, Ford, Slade and Steward could probably afford to carry a rookie winger, and I’d actually include Freeman as a known quality test player despite Slippery Barnacle’s refusal to select him until now. That is the vast majority of the team that you told us performed very well in the World Cup so how picking IFW, Roebuck etc against Italy and a poor Wales is akin to picking B-B against the double world champions I’ll never know.

Although I think Daly has done a decent job generally, I agree with the principle here. We keep making excuses for the side 'being a new team' 'not much time together' 'new coaching staff' etc etc...but there is a firm core of experience down most of the spine of the team, and really should be looking seriously at some new cabs off the rank- that said....the bench has a lot of newbies...so...

[Stom]

You can't help but feel like that's a try that 2024!Daly *can't* score, but another winger might. I don't know if Feyi-Waboso could have, but I fancy his chances more. May be unfair, idk.

So much this, thought it at the time. Daly's line seems to be 'direct for the try line' with no threat of a step. He seems to be lacking guile and pace.

It's all very well picking wingers for aerial and/or defensive capabilities (not sure Daly entirely qualifies, though I am contractually obliged to mention his huge left boot) but how many points do England leave out for not having a pacy, mazy finisher to give the ball to in those positions? France seem to have picked Bielle-Biarrey, who scored a great try from nowhere against Scotland. Why is Sniff Bostik scared to do so?

Thanks so much for these mbms. They're a highlight of the 6N for me.

TBF, who do England have available who is a pacy, mazy finisher?

I, like many, think Murley should be in this squad, even in this 23, but he's not exactly the first name that comes to mind when you think of "mazy". Arundell isn't available, for whatever reason, so we can't harp on about that.

And I do kind of get putting Daly there considering the alternatives right now.

I'd still pick Murley ahead of him, though.

[Crash Hamster]

You can't help but feel like that's a try that 2024!Daly *can't* score, but another winger might. I don't know if Feyi-Waboso could have, but I fancy his chances more. May be unfair, idk.

So much this, thought it at the time. Daly's line seems to be 'direct for the try line' with no threat of a step. He seems to be lacking guile and pace.

It's all very well picking wingers for aerial and/or defensive capabilities (not sure Daly entirely qualifies, though I am contractually obliged to mention his huge left boot) but how many points do England leave out for not having a pacy, mazy finisher to give the ball to in those positions? France seem to have picked Bielle-Biarrey, who scored a great try from nowhere against Scotland. Why is Sniff Bostik scared to do so?

Thanks so much for these mbms. They're a highlight of the 6N for me.

TBF, who do England have available who is a pacy, mazy finisher?

I, like many, think Murley should be in this squad, even in this 23, but he's not exactly the first name that comes to mind when you think of "mazy". Arundell isn't available, for whatever reason, so we can't harp on about that.

And I do kind of get putting Daly there considering the alternatives right now.

I'd still pick Murley ahead of him, though.

Murley is the obvious choice, but there are several possibilities of back three players with 'more pace and deception than Elliot Daly' for the role:
Obvious choices:
Murley
Radwan
In the squad:
IFW
Muir
Roebuck
Wider premiership:
Ibitoye
O'Flaherty
Cokanasiga
Hassell-Collins
Thorley
Slightly leftfield:
David
de Glanville
Wyatt
Missed the boat:
Reed
Lynagh

I've probably missed a few.

Obviously, some are more serious suggestions than others, but I'd consider each of them to be more wingery than ED; I just don't see Daly as anything other than an OC and I can't see picking a backline with 3 OCs is the best use of England's playing resources.

[Stom]

I'm not sure I'd consider many of them to have more "pace and deception" than Daly. You're really just talking Ibitoye from that list, and he's not got any of the rest of the game Daly has.