RugbyRebels

Drugs related deaths have doubled in a decade in Scotland. How do we combat this?

The patients I see tend not to be interested in improving their situation, admittedly due to the nature of my job I get a skewed aspect on things only seeing those at a crisis point.

http://trib.al/O7ghBJS

Seems to be a move toward treating drug abuse as a medical condition rather than a social problem. Don't know if I agree, but something has to change it would seem.

It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Fudging the issue ver legalisation hasn't helped. We seem to occupy a current half way house between legalisation (especially when police chiefs question investigating drug users) and prohibition.

From what I have seen of drug users, for many there are plenty of other issues as well, which make it difficult to focus on treating their addiction. But ultimately whilst it's socially acceptable to take drugs, at least in certain peer groups, and the threat of legal action means the use has to remai covert, then you get the worst f both worlds and sadly ou are going to be attending more incidents as a result.

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Yep, addiction can and should be treated as a medical condition, but unless we unfuck the social issue causing people to choose to take something like heroin in the first place we are treading water. Gateway drug use, I'm my humble of humble is largely a myth. The gateway to meth and the like seems to be poverty.

Purely personal opinion, and forgive me if this deviates too much from the OP, but you don't fight drug use by going after the supply. If demand exists for something, supply will always exist.

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Yep, addiction can and should be treated as a medical condition, but unless we unfuck the social issue causing people to choose to take something like heroin in the first place we are treading water. Gateway drug use, I'm my humble of humble is largely a myth. The gateway to meth and the like seems to be poverty.

Purely personal opinion, and forgive me if this deviates too much from the OP, but you don't fight drug use by going after the supply. If demand exists for something, supply will always exist.

Yeah you're right. Anytime I've actually managed to speak to a patient properly there's always a background story as to why they're in their current situation and it's not because they once smoked weed.

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

You need to treat it as both, the biopsychosocial model is the best we have

Which Tyler wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

You need to treat it as both, the biopsychosocial model is the best we have

Aye, I think we are all in agreement on that. Our medical services can do all they can to deal with the addiction, but they are pissing directly into a wind tunnel if the user goes right back into the same environment that fostered the addiction in the first place. Two pronged attack, one is nothing without the other.

Aye Baz, was thinking that's got to be one of the shitest parts of your job. I'm assuming you get a few return customers.

OptimisticJock wrote:

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Yep, addiction can and should be treated as a medical condition, but unless we unfuck the social issue causing people to choose to take something like heroin in the first place we are treading water. Gateway drug use, I'm my humble of humble is largely a myth. The gateway to meth and the like seems to be poverty.

Purely personal opinion, and forgive me if this deviates too much from the OP, but you don't fight drug use by going after the supply. If demand exists for something, supply will always exist.

Yeah you're right. Anytime I've actually managed to speak to a patient properly there's always a background story as to why they're in their current situation and it's not because they once smoked weed.

How many of them suffer from mental illness, out of interest?

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Out of interest, do you get many drug related issues from people with better financial backgrounds? Whilst the type of drugs vary according to class/background from my experience the acceptance of drug users widespread across the social spectrum.

morepork wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:
Yep, addiction can and should be treated as a medical condition, but unless we unfuck the social issue causing people to choose to take something like heroin in the first place we are treading water. Gateway drug use, I'm my humble of humble is largely a myth. The gateway to meth and the like seems to be poverty.

Purely personal opinion, and forgive me if this deviates too much from the OP, but you don't fight drug use by going after the supply. If demand exists for something, supply will always exist.

Yeah you're right. Anytime I've actually managed to speak to a patient properly there's always a background story as to why they're in their current situation and it's not because they once smoked weed.

How many of them suffer from mental illness, out of interest?

Of the ones that speak to you all of them. For example had one bloke who had been clean for months but the trial of the bloke who abused him as a kid came up, his mate committed suicide because of the trial, and he turned back to it as a coping mechanism.

Now I'm not suggesting that every single user has MH problems but a lot don't want to talk or don't hang around to so I can only comment in those that have.

Yeah EinE you do end up seeing the same folk. Heroin is a vile substance, the state of people and their lifestyle they get into is abhorrent.

Sandydragon wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Out of interest, do you get many drug related issues from people with better financial backgrounds? Whilst the type of drugs vary according to class/background from my experience the acceptance of drug users widespread across the social spectrum.

Had a couple of youngsters that had dabbled with ecstasy from decent backgrounds. Otherwise it tends to be alcohol. I suppose there's an argument for those that are better off financially are better educated and so don't OD (unless on purpose maybe) and are better equipped to deal with any other health issues that may arise.

OptimisticJock wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It definitely IS a social issue though. You can't separate that and we need to be aware of that.

Out of interest, do you get many drug related issues from people with better financial backgrounds? Whilst the type of drugs vary according to class/background from my experience the acceptance of drug users widespread across the social spectrum.

Had a couple of youngsters that had dabbled with ecstasy from decent backgrounds. Otherwise it tends to be alcohol. I suppose there's an argument for those that are better off financially are better educated and so don't OD (unless on purpose maybe) and are better equipped to deal with any other health issues that may arise.

It tends to be "legal highs" of late that seems to fuck up the kids I work with.,

Not had someone on legal highs for a while. I think the local police/councils were quite quick shutting down the sellers.

The almost universal view of the criminal bar is that prohibition does no one any favours apart from us.

And the cartels.... Sorry, I see you included them

Which Tyler wrote:And the cartels.... Sorry, I see you included them

We're very much not a cartel. We're a pisspoor excuse for an association never mind a cartel.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The almost universal view of the criminal bar is that prohibition does no one any favours apart from us.

So what's the alternative? Blanket legalization? Graded response depending on how "toxic" the active chemical is?

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The almost universal view of the criminal bar is that prohibition does no one any favours apart from us.

So what's the alternative? Blanket legalization? Graded response depending on how "toxic" the active chemical is?

You could start with updating drug legislation, and treating addiction as an illness rather than a crime. It also would help to take into account wider societal factors in drug use.

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The almost universal view of the criminal bar is that prohibition does no one any favours apart from us.

So what's the alternative? Blanket legalization? Graded response depending on how "toxic" the active chemical is?

Personally I'd work towards legalisation with it regulated in much the same way as alcohol.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The almost universal view of the criminal bar is that prohibition does no one any favours apart from us.

So what's the alternative? Blanket legalization? Graded response depending on how "toxic" the active chemical is?

Personally I'd work towards legalisation with it regulated in much the same way as alcohol.

I am vehemently against heroin being open to anyone buy. It's a vile, corrosive drug.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The almost universal view of the criminal bar is that prohibition does no one any favours apart from us.

So what's the alternative? Blanket legalization? Graded response depending on how "toxic" the active chemical is?

Personally I'd work towards legalisation with it regulated in much the same way as alcohol.

It would need to be much more heavily regulated than alcohol.

2004 I lived in toronto for a year. Surprised and delighted to learn that alcohol is only sold by state owned and regulated shops, with all proceeds going back into public spending.

Much as I instinctively agree with Baz that drugs are too vile to legalize, if I try and look at some sort of alt view, the only one I could possibly reconcile is that the state owns and operates any and all retail units.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, am pissed up on legal drug on night bus home.

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Donny osmond wrote: So what's the alternative? Blanket legalization? Graded response depending on how "toxic" the active chemical is?

Personally I'd work towards legalisation with it regulated in much the same way as alcohol.

It would need to be much more heavily regulated than alcohol.

2004 I lived in toronto for a year. Surprised and delighted to learn that alcohol is only sold by state owned and regulated shops, with all proceeds going back into public spending.

Much as I instinctively agree with Baz that drugs are too vile to legalize, if I try and look at some sort of alt view, the only one I could possibly reconcile is that the state owns and operates any and all retail units.

Spend a week or 2 in the homes (without trying to sound like a twat), and I use that word loosely, or seeing families literally waiting for the day someone finally pegs it, to just the all consuming need that when your life has just been saved you absolutely HAVE to go and get more and risk killing yourself again. I could go on. Retailing this is a very very bad idea no matter who "controls" it, I use the inverted commas because it controls the user.

OptimisticJock wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
Personally I'd work towards legalisation with it regulated in much the same way as alcohol.

It would need to be much more heavily regulated than alcohol.

2004 I lived in toronto for a year. Surprised and delighted to learn that alcohol is only sold by state owned and regulated shops, with all proceeds going back into public spending.

Much as I instinctively agree with Baz that drugs are too vile to legalize, if I try and look at some sort of alt view, the only one I could possibly reconcile is that the state owns and operates any and all retail units.

Spend a week or 2 in the homes (without trying to sound like a twat), and I use that word loosely, or seeing families literally waiting for the day someone finally pegs it, to just the all consuming need that when your life has just been saved you absolutely HAVE to go and get more and risk killing yourself again. I could go on. Retailing this is a very very bad idea no matter who "controls" it, I use the inverted commas because it controls the user.

It's a fair point, but it's not like we've a control over supply as things stand, what's in the supply isn't regulated, people don't have access to clean needles, treatment centres and the like, the money is going back into crime and helps fund any number of disgusting things, and there's a decent amount of crime to fund those wanting to pay for something that's currently criminal.

I'd favour legalisation even just to have a safe place to take the crap for the users, but with all the impacts the trade in heroin has beyond just the users I'd certainly back legalisation. I'd hope no one would take it, but making god awful decisions is for me a person's right, and it's not like it's hard to get hold of anyway