COVID19

[Stom]

Jesus.

So, I've not been reading or watching the news at all recently. A lot of people here have been talking about the deaths after the vaccines. I've not bothered to look it up to refute it... today I did.

I mean, seriously people?

900odd dead of 52m?

0.000018%...

There hasn't been a single case of death caused directly by a vaccine. There have been people that have died after getting a vaccine, but not because of the vaccine.

End of chat.

Well yeah. And the numbers of people dying are low, even for normality...

I mean, it takes a good couple of weeks for you to get full immunity and we know how people can be, so you'd expect more covid deaths. 20 of 113 deaths in Germany have been from Covid.

It really feels like people have an expectation of 0 deaths, otherwise the vaccine is useless and shouldn't be given. I mean, it might prove useless in the future, if Covid mutates like flu away from the vaccine, but it's not exactly killing people is it? "But all the people in this nursing home have died!" Where did you hear that?

BUT this 30 year old woman in Slovakia died from it. Again, where did you hear that, oh from 1 website and oh look, that's been taken down now, too...

sigh.

OK, I'm back on my news break.

[morepork]

Andrew. Cunting. Wakefield.

Spawned an industry for influencers to make a living peddling lies and disinformation.

[Puja]

Jesus.

So, I've not been reading or watching the news at all recently. A lot of people here have been talking about the deaths after the vaccines. I've not bothered to look it up to refute it... today I did.

I mean, seriously people?

900odd dead of 52m?

0.000018%...

There hasn't been a single case of death caused directly by a vaccine. There have been people that have died after getting a vaccine, but not because of the vaccine.

End of chat.

Well yeah. And the numbers of people dying are low, even for normality...

I mean, it takes a good couple of weeks for you to get full immunity and we know how people can be, so you'd expect more covid deaths. 20 of 113 deaths in Germany have been from Covid.

It really feels like people have an expectation of 0 deaths, otherwise the vaccine is useless and shouldn't be given. I mean, it might prove useless in the future, if Covid mutates like flu away from the vaccine, but it's not exactly killing people is it? "But all the people in this nursing home have died!" Where did you hear that?

BUT this 30 year old woman in Slovakia died from it. Again, where did you hear that, oh from 1 website and oh look, that's been taken down now, too...

sigh.

OK, I'm back on my news break.

As I said to someone on Facebook, it's like I've shouted "BANG" at a million people, one of them's dropped dead of natural causes and you've accused me of having a hidden gun.

Puja

[Digby]

I'd like to start a bring back the lockdown campaign. My chores list of things to do in the garden is now alarming, and this because it needs to look pretty before visitors start arriving tomorrow.

I'd got weeding, a further trim of the lawns, some pruning, one tree to remove, furniture to wash, lights to hang, and almost certainly a trip to the dump. Claims I'm busy doing other stuff are being derided, and in fairness those are undermined by having time to waste on here

[Stom]

The thing here is, they've signed up to the Chinese vaccine before it's finished testing and while it's been having some very different and far more alarming side effects to the other vaccines. And people don't trust the government at all. And they don't provide any data, they don't communicate, they've been using the lockdown to steal more and more, they've not provided any support for anyone, they've locked down all small businesses except casinos (because they're essential, right?), and they've made a fortune by buying the vaccines through private companies and then selling them to the government...

The Hungarian government is the most expensive in the EU as a percentage of GDP.

I can understand why people feel the way they do. And the media is so terrible, combined with the language barrier making it almost impossible to find relevant, unbiased fact checking.

[Son of Mathonwy]

There hasn't been a single case of death caused directly by a vaccine. There have been people that have died after getting a vaccine, but not because of the vaccine.

End of chat.

Well yeah. And the numbers of people dying are low, even for normality...

I mean, it takes a good couple of weeks for you to get full immunity and we know how people can be, so you'd expect more covid deaths. 20 of 113 deaths in Germany have been from Covid.

It really feels like people have an expectation of 0 deaths, otherwise the vaccine is useless and shouldn't be given. I mean, it might prove useless in the future, if Covid mutates like flu away from the vaccine, but it's not exactly killing people is it? "But all the people in this nursing home have died!" Where did you hear that?

BUT this 30 year old woman in Slovakia died from it. Again, where did you hear that, oh from 1 website and oh look, that's been taken down now, too...

sigh.

OK, I'm back on my news break.

As I said to someone on Facebook, it's like I've shouted "BANG" at a million people, one of them's dropped dead of natural causes and you've accused me of having a hidden gun.

Puja

No doubt your sensible analogy changed their mind?

[Puja]

Well yeah. And the numbers of people dying are low, even for normality...

I mean, it takes a good couple of weeks for you to get full immunity and we know how people can be, so you'd expect more covid deaths. 20 of 113 deaths in Germany have been from Covid.

It really feels like people have an expectation of 0 deaths, otherwise the vaccine is useless and shouldn't be given. I mean, it might prove useless in the future, if Covid mutates like flu away from the vaccine, but it's not exactly killing people is it? "But all the people in this nursing home have died!" Where did you hear that?

BUT this 30 year old woman in Slovakia died from it. Again, where did you hear that, oh from 1 website and oh look, that's been taken down now, too...

sigh.

OK, I'm back on my news break.

As I said to someone on Facebook, it's like I've shouted "BANG" at a million people, one of them's dropped dead of natural causes and you've accused me of having a hidden gun.

Puja

No doubt your sensible analogy changed their mind?

This was a discussion with someone on Facebook, of course it did!

Puja

[morepork]

The thing here is, they've signed up to the Chinese vaccine before it's finished testing and while it's been having some very different and far more alarming side effects to the other vaccines. And people don't trust the government at all. And they don't provide any data, they don't communicate, they've been using the lockdown to steal more and more, they've not provided any support for anyone, they've locked down all small businesses except casinos (because they're essential, right?), and they've made a fortune by buying the vaccines through private companies and then selling them to the government...

The Hungarian government is the most expensive in the EU as a percentage of GDP.

I can understand why people feel the way they do. And the media is so terrible, combined with the language barrier making it almost impossible to find relevant, unbiased fact checking.

what is the sauce for alarming side effects?

[Digby]

The End hot sauce, that can have very alarming effects. Any hotter and you'd be looking at additives and thus not consuming straight.

The packaging even suggests after consuming you'll reach a point of being willing to lick the floor to make the pain go away, and they're not lying. I got some of that Bunsters Shit the Bed sauce at Christmas (you'd never guess it's named by Aussies) and it's nothing on The End

[Which Tyler]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... n-open-web

University scientists deconstruct Covid-19 vaccines and publish 'recipe' on open web

Stanford University scientists determine sequences of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines from vials set to be discarded

Scientists have determined the “recipes” for two Covid-19 vaccines using leftovers in vials bound for the trash and published the mRNA sequences on Github, the online repository for software code.

The group of scientists from Stanford University were able to determine the sequences of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, and included the mRNA sequences in a post they published on Github last week, tech news site Motherboard first reported.

Experts say the publication will help researchers around the world better identify when testing samples whether they are looking at sequences from the Covid-19 virus or vaccines to treat the virus, because they can give false positives.

​

[Which Tyler]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/worl ... mixup.html

Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine is delayed by a U.S. factory mixup.

Workers at a plant in Baltimore manufacturing two coronavirus vaccines accidentally conflated the ingredients several weeks ago, contaminating up to 15 million doses of Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine and forcing regulators to delay authorization of the plant’s production lines.

The plant is run by Emergent BioSolutions, a manufacturing partner to both Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca, the British-Swedish company whose vaccine has yet to be authorized for use in the United States. Federal officials attributed the mistake to human error.

...

"However idiot proof you can make things, nature will provide a bigger idiot"

[Which Tyler]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/a ... our-months

Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

BMJ analysis of 48,000 records also finds one in eight patients die within four months of discharge.

Nearly a third of people who have been in hospital suffering from Covid-19 are readmitted for further treatment within four months of being discharged, and one in eight of patients dies in the same period, doctors have found.

The striking long-term impact of the disease has prompted doctors to call for ongoing tests and monitoring of former coronavirus patients to detect early signs of organ damage and other complications caused by the virus.

While Covid is widely known to cause serious respiratory problems, the virus can also infect and damage other organs such as the heart, liver and kidneys.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n693

[Galfon]

Fra. may be next to cop for the newbie ..scientists & public majority want lockdown, M. le President: 'Non' preferring the status quo of nightime curfews etc.
"When you're French, you have everything you need to succeed providing you dare to try."
he reportedly asserted.
Big call after the sluggish vaccination take-off.

Retrospectoscope reveals a questionnable call;
(Having the tag 'educated Trump' probably not a complement to crow about too loudly. )

Fairly succinct summary by Atkins:

[paddy no 11]

Does everything start again with the new variant if the AZ vaccine is only 10% effective?

[morepork]

It should start with the most prevalent variant and seek to have as much redundancy as possible with respect to specific genetic code in order to have as broad a spectrum effect as possible.

We can thank countries like the US and UK for selfishly allowing essentially unfettered travel in promoting genetic drift of the virus. How to fuck a vaccine 101.

[Galfon]

..as against B.1.351, SA & NY variants ?
Already popping up around UK with surge testing response I believe.Pfizer is still does the business, so it will be a race to modify it for a future shot & hope it fizzles out in the meantime.
They gave up on the common cold in the end ..

[morepork]

The common cold is caused by more than one virus.

The obstinate denial of science in this whole sorry affair is just fucking maddening.

[paddy no 11]

..as against B.1.351, SA & NY variants ?
Already popping up around UK with surge testing response I believe.Pfizer is still does the business, so it will be a race to modify it for a future shot & hope it fizzles out in the meantime.
They gave up on the common cold in the end ..

Yeah Pfizer does the business but how is joe public react to being told he needs another shot? If that can happen?

[Galfon]

Yeah Pfizer does the business but how is joe public react to being told he needs another shot? If that can happen?

That would be a tuffy - if half those vaccinated in uk are with AZ and in 5 months we see a third wave of SA dominant strain, at 10% protection ('unwell' or 'hospitalisation' v. unprotected sample?..)
not sure which way they'd go.
Strict travel/test/quarantine control between now and then you would hope, to give a clear sight of the enemy and a wider selection of weaponry at our disposal.

[Galfon]

Brazil & India thought they were out of the woods for different reasons, but new variants and maybe complacency are causing
big problemos again..recent numbers are huge and rising.
https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-o ... 2021-03-10

Religious festivals crimbo (here), easter and holi don't appear to fit well with pandemic response.

[paddy no 11]

Behaviours will have to change drastically for 2 years

Vaccines aren't the end all solution, control of the virus is critical

[Sandydragon]

Brazil & India thought they were out of the woods for different reasons, but new variants and maybe complacency are causing
big problemos again..recent numbers are huge and rising.
https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-o ... 2021-03-10

Religious festivals crimbo (here), easter and holi don't appear to fit well with pandemic response.

Has the Brazilian government ever though that it was in the woods? Surely part of the problem has been the lack of interest by the Brazilian Trump?

[Galfon]

Has the Brazilian government ever thought that it was in the woods? Surely part of the problem has been the lack of interest by the Brazilian Trump?

Considered by some to have shown the worst national response to the crisis, after a year and with deaths spiralling out of control,
they are told 'all back to normal soon...'
Their new normal must be on a different scale -a bit surprising the peeps are not a bit more animated about the situation.
The Cnut-like bravado must be a proven form of hoodwinkery, for those who feel they need to.

news today (afp): 'Brazil high court confirms annulment of ex-president Lula's graft convictions, clearing the way for the popular leftist to run in next year's presidential election against far-right incumbent Jair Bolsonaro'

[Son of Mathonwy]

Behaviours will have to change drastically for 2 years

Vaccines aren't the end all solution, control of the virus is critical

Fix/reboot/restructure our car-crash of a contact-tracing system, sack Dido and her chums, put the NHS in control of it, give financial support to those self-isolating.

[Which Tyler]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -final.pdf