EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[FKAS]

If it's being used preventatively, then the entire medical team needs to be sacked ASAP, and their new head has only been in position for 5 weeks.

For someone like Coka, it really shouldn't be used as a precaution either, as that's a massive nocebo that will likely do far more harm than benefit.

I work in finance not medicine couldn't say. Just presumed based on the number of times you see a player take a knock and wear the boot after but seem fine. Stabilising effect etc.

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, that's precautionary &/ early therapeutic, not preventative.

Precautionary, and even early therapeutic needs to be balanced against Nocebo though, and someone like Coka will inevitably have a tonne of Nocebo kicking around already, that really doesn't need to be ramped up.

[Puja]

I found this an interesting article about ruck statistics in the first half of the 6N: https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/03/break ... -the-ruck/

Interesting to see Lawes scoring so high as first man at attacking rucks - one of the criticisms I've had of him in the past is being too slow to the breakdown for securing attacking ball. I'd be interested to know how high up the chart of effectiveness he ranked though.

Puja

[Timbo]

Particularly impressive as he’d only played 1 game by this point of the 6 Nations, if memory serves. Was injured for the Scotland & Italy games.

[Oakboy]

Lawes at 6 has always been controversial. I've always liked the extra line-out option and been swayed by that to be in favour of the selection. Some have criticised him on principle as a converted lock (ignoring his own preference for the back row). Others have just objected on the grounds of not picking a better (perceived) groundhog. Regardless of statistics that prove or disprove his prowess, maybe the old adage of picking whoever the opposition would like least is not a bad way to go. Nobody likes playing against Lawes, I suspect.

That must be about the 3rd time that I've backed a Jones decision. Maybe I'm getting ever closer to losing the plot. Damned senility!

[twitchy]

[SDHoneymonster]

Underhill also played for England before playing in the Premiership on the same tour as Francis, although it being the end of the season probably made it all a lot easier logistically - Mercer would have to shuttle back and forth to France outside of the international window and during any fallow weeks in the 6N.

EDIT: also seem to remember Ben Morgan and Tom Palmer as far back as 2012 signing contracts to move to English clubs and then playing under Lancaster in that year's 6N?

[Puja]

Underhill also played for England before playing in the Premiership on the same tour as Francis, although it being the end of the season probably made it all a lot easier logistically - Mercer would have to shuttle back and forth to France outside of the international window and during any fallow weeks in the 6N.

EDIT: also seem to remember Ben Morgan and Tom Palmer as far back as 2012 signing contracts to move to English clubs and then playing under Lancaster in that year's 6N?

The overseas player policy was only brought in in 2011-2012, IIRC, and I believe players were allowed to see out their existing overseas commitment and were only ineligible if they signed a new overseas contract after that.

As you've noted, the main problem with Mercer is his availability for training camps. I can't imagine his club will be wanting to do him any favours, given that he's leaving them, and I can't see Eddie wanting someone who can't be there for the whole of the extended international period. He'll either need to barter access from Montpellier, or have such a barnstorming season that Eddie invites him to the pre-RWC camp and attempt to make a late bolt for the squad from there.

Puja

[Puja]

England going back to Jersey for the pre-AIs training camp again: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62738876

Well, it seemed to work well last year, so I'm in favour.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Looking at the results in the Rugby Championship, I am wondering if my pessimism towards England after what was only a second ever series win in Aus was really warranted. Roll on the autumn tests.

[Puja]

Looking at the results in the Rugby Championship, I am wondering if my pessimism towards England after what was only a second ever series win in Aus was really warranted. Roll on the autumn tests.

I really don't know what to make of the Rugby Championship. Argentina, who struggled to beat Scotland 2nds at home, get clumped by Australia, before doing the same to the Aussies, who then handily beat South Africa, who put away New Zealand before being put away themselves in the rematch before that same New Zealand lose at home to Argentina. I can't work out if Australia and Argentina are really good now or if New Zealand are terrible and if so does that make South Africa terrible too? Confused by the whole thing.

Puja

[Raggs]

Looking at the results in the Rugby Championship, I am wondering if my pessimism towards England after what was only a second ever series win in Aus was really warranted. Roll on the autumn tests.

I really don't know what to make of the Rugby Championship. Argentina, who struggled to beat Scotland 2nds at home, get clumped by Australia, before doing the same to the Aussies, who then handily beat South Africa, who put away New Zealand before being put away themselves in the rematch before that same New Zealand lose at home to Argentina. I can't work out if Australia and Argentina are really good now or if New Zealand are terrible and if so does that make South Africa terrible too? Confused by the whole thing.

Puja

It does rather seem to be a case of anyone in the top 9 can probably beat anyone else in the top 9. And I'd not be surprised if Japan could upset anyone else on their day too. I wonder if we're likely to see a strong contender or 2 emerge before the rwc or if it's going to be France as slight favourites due to being at home, but in general, it's going to be a bloodbath.

[Puja]

Looking at the results in the Rugby Championship, I am wondering if my pessimism towards England after what was only a second ever series win in Aus was really warranted. Roll on the autumn tests.

I really don't know what to make of the Rugby Championship. Argentina, who struggled to beat Scotland 2nds at home, get clumped by Australia, before doing the same to the Aussies, who then handily beat South Africa, who put away New Zealand before being put away themselves in the rematch before that same New Zealand lose at home to Argentina. I can't work out if Australia and Argentina are really good now or if New Zealand are terrible and if so does that make South Africa terrible too? Confused by the whole thing.

Puja

It does rather seem to be a case of anyone in the top 9 can probably beat anyone else in the top 9. And I'd not be surprised if Japan could upset anyone else on their day too. I wonder if we're likely to see a strong contender or 2 emerge before the rwc or if it's going to be France as slight favourites due to being at home, but in general, it's going to be a bloodbath.

I'd say France and Ireland are the clear top 2, with maybe South Africa also possibly ahead of the pack (depends if the Australia result was a blip or not). The next 6 could be in any ranking order and I'd believe it.

Puja

[pandion]

I really don't know what to make of the Rugby Championship. Argentina, who struggled to beat Scotland 2nds at home, get clumped by Australia, before doing the same to the Aussies, who then handily beat South Africa, who put away New Zealand before being put away themselves in the rematch before that same New Zealand lose at home to Argentina. I can't work out if Australia and Argentina are really good now or if New Zealand are terrible and if so does that make South Africa terrible too? Confused by the whole thing.

Puja

It does rather seem to be a case of anyone in the top 9 can probably beat anyone else in the top 9. And I'd not be surprised if Japan could upset anyone else on their day too. I wonder if we're likely to see a strong contender or 2 emerge before the rwc or if it's going to be France as slight favourites due to being at home, but in general, it's going to be a bloodbath.

I'd say France and Ireland are the clear top 2, with maybe South Africa also possibly ahead of the pack (depends if the Australia result was a blip or not). The next 6 could be in any ranking order and I'd believe it.

Puja

We are dark horses it seems. We would have beaten Ireland with 15 and could have beaten France. That's with crazy Eddie running the show.

[Scrumhead]

I really don't know what to make of the Rugby Championship. Argentina, who struggled to beat Scotland 2nds at home, get clumped by Australia, before doing the same to the Aussies, who then handily beat South Africa, who put away New Zealand before being put away themselves in the rematch before that same New Zealand lose at home to Argentina. I can't work out if Australia and Argentina are really good now or if New Zealand are terrible and if so does that make South Africa terrible too? Confused by the whole thing.

Puja

It does rather seem to be a case of anyone in the top 9 can probably beat anyone else in the top 9. And I'd not be surprised if Japan could upset anyone else on their day too. I wonder if we're likely to see a strong contender or 2 emerge before the rwc or if it's going to be France as slight favourites due to being at home, but in general, it's going to be a bloodbath.

I'd say France and Ireland are the clear top 2, with maybe South Africa also possibly ahead of the pack (depends if the Australia result was a blip or not). The next 6 could be in any ranking order and I'd believe it.

Puja

Yeah. I agree.

At this point in time, France and Ireland look like the most consistent and settled sides and I’d expect it to stay that way in the build up to the RWC. However, as Ireland know all too well, there’s no point peaking a year in advance.

With the groups as they are, I doubt there’s going to be much variation in quarter finalists TBH. Who qualifies in first or second is hard to call, but it’s hard to look beyond France, NZ, Ireland, SA, Australia, Wales, England and Argentina. Fiji and Japan are probably best equipped to disrupt that, but for all their talent/potential, Fiji aren’t looking great right now and I don’t think Japan are the same threat this time round. Home advantage was massive for them and they quite literally hot-housed their first choice side for a long time in the build up to the tournament. I don’t think they can do that this time. Also, with only their domestic leagues, I’m not sure their players have the same exposure they benefitted from with the Sunwolves in Super Rugby.

[Raggs]

I could see Fiji/Japan doing a Japan 2015, and merely disrupting the pool a bit, but not actually having an effect on who the top 2 end up being.

[SDHoneymonster]

I really don't know what to make of the Rugby Championship. Argentina, who struggled to beat Scotland 2nds at home, get clumped by Australia, before doing the same to the Aussies, who then handily beat South Africa, who put away New Zealand before being put away themselves in the rematch before that same New Zealand lose at home to Argentina. I can't work out if Australia and Argentina are really good now or if New Zealand are terrible and if so does that make South Africa terrible too? Confused by the whole thing.

Puja

It does rather seem to be a case of anyone in the top 9 can probably beat anyone else in the top 9. And I'd not be surprised if Japan could upset anyone else on their day too. I wonder if we're likely to see a strong contender or 2 emerge before the rwc or if it's going to be France as slight favourites due to being at home, but in general, it's going to be a bloodbath.

I'd say France and Ireland are the clear top 2, with maybe South Africa also possibly ahead of the pack (depends if the Australia result was a blip or not). The next 6 could be in any ranking order and I'd believe it.

Puja

In fairness South Africa's form in Australia is never a good benchmark to judge them by - they've not won there since 2013 and I think have a considerably worse record there than they do in New Zealand, I suspect because just like they insist on making their opensides wear 6 instead of 7 they enjoy being contrarian.

[Oakboy]

Two questions in the light of NH/SH results over the last 6 months or so: 1. How good are we? 2. How good should we be?

[Mr Mwenda]

Two questions in the light of NH/SH results over the last 6 months or so: 1. How good are we? 2. How good should we be?

1. Better than we thought. 2. Better than we are now

[Oakboy]

Two questions in the light of NH/SH results over the last 6 months or so: 1. How good are we? 2. How good should we be?

1. Better than we thought. 2. Better than we are now

Yep. Dare we be hopeful for the RWC? On the day, properly prepared, I'd suggest there is no team that we could not beat.

[Banquo]

Two questions in the light of NH/SH results over the last 6 months or so: 1. How good are we? 2. How good should we be?

1. Better than we thought. 2. Better than we are now

Yep. Dare we be hopeful for the RWC? On the day, properly prepared, I'd suggest there is no team that we could not beat.

why?
we still lack quality/depth in enough positions to be dubious about that.

[Puja]

Two questions in the light of NH/SH results over the last 6 months or so: 1. How good are we? 2. How good should we be?

1. Better than we thought. 2. Better than we are now

Yep. Dare we be hopeful for the RWC? On the day, properly prepared, I'd suggest there is no team that we could not beat.

As a one-off, with the wind in our sails and a good bounce, sure. Twice in a row? Not sure about that. Barring a significant uptick or a good run of luck, we'll get to the semis or the final and no further.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Not sure it has the be that significant an uptick. Van portvliet kicking on would make a big difference. Likewise Manu sustaining fitness for a world cup, which has happened before.

[FKAS]

JVP and a fit again Quirke would do wonders for our scrum half stock. I suspect Eddie's staple Ben Youngs selection would remain but maybe as a third choice.

Nick Isiekwe is having an operation that will keep him out for several months apparently so he won't be an option for the AIs.

[Oakboy]

1. Better than we thought. 2. Better than we are now

Yep. Dare we be hopeful for the RWC? On the day, properly prepared, I'd suggest there is no team that we could not beat.

why?
we still lack quality/depth in enough positions to be dubious about that.

I don't think we are that special but performing to our absolute best individually and collectively (which we have not done for two or three years) in a knock-out competition we should match any other team over 80 minutes.

Why? Because results indicate that none of the other teams are that good. I agree that France and Ireland look the best rounded units but both teams traditionally either peak at the wrong time or have a flakey performance in them.

Puja is right. We would not reliably beat any of the other top teams consistently. The point is that we COULD beat any in a one-off.

Of course, it is up to Jones to deliver. As ever, I don't mind us losing in the knock-out stages IF we have performed to our maximum and given our all. Not turning up on the day is what is unforgiveable.