Scotland v England Sat 24 Feb 4.45pm

[Oakboy]

Spencer's due to get a 2 minute cameo off the bench, no doubt.

Puja

I'd guess that Care will be using supplementary orifices for oxygen intake if he is still there in the 77th minute. Common sense suggests Spencer in about the 50th minute.

{Haskell.gif} for the turn of phrase.

You're probably right; I'm just annoyed at Slovenly Benchusing's tendency towards bringing players on for token caps or just plain not using them at all. IFW should have had more than 1 cap for 3 minutes of gametime, we have learned practically nothing about FSmith's capabilities at international level from his 15 minutes against Italy, and it's infuriating that Dan, who at least has got on the pitch in both games, has only played 16 minutes in total.

Puja

Without being defeatist, maybe it's that he wants to keep it tight till someone beats us. Conversely, he'll wait till we get well ahead in a match - hard to imagine when that might be!

[FKAS]

Agreed, Russell is more likely to move the 15 around which I don't think would particularly suit Steward. I remain unconvinced by Furbank and suspect his game won't translate well to international level, but happy to see him tried. A distributor at 15 may lessen our centre woes.

Not a front row expert, but might the prop changes be so that our stronger scrummaging LH comes up against Millar-Mills?

I mean Steward's positioning in the backfield tends to be excellent, so I'd have no concern about him being moved around by kicks as he tends to be a step ahead in his foresight and also very quick when moving in one direction. My concerns with his agility have been more around getting beaten as the last line of defence (although he has done pretty well on that this 6N so far), so may be that was the concern.

Marler against Millar-Mills could be an absolute murdering. We do have to be targetting Scotland's bench as it's such a drop-off from the starting XV.

Puja

Presumably, Genge's performances in training have convinced SB that he is fully back on form. That must be good news though I always prefer Marler starting.

We seem to be pairing up one strong set piece prop with one more mobile prop. Cole up against Schoeman makes sense as the converted South African is pretty decent at scrum time whilst Hepburn is only ok. Marler should decimate Millar-Mills. If I'm guessing right and we're aiming to tire their tight five out then the subs could come pretty early in the second half as well.

[FKAS]

Against a nimble team that loves broken field running like Scotland, Steward's lack of agility is a real problem. Scotland also kick well (although lost their way in the 2nd half in the kick duels with Fra), so kicking straight down Steward's throat is less likely than the two we've already faced.

Agreed, Russell is more likely to move the 15 around which I don't think would particularly suit Steward. I remain unconvinced by Furbank and suspect his game won't translate well to international level, but happy to see him tried. A distributor at 15 may lessen our centre woes.

Not a front row expert, but might the prop changes be so that our stronger scrummaging LH comes up against Millar-Mills?

I mean Steward's positioning in the backfield tends to be excellent, so I'd have no concern about him being moved around by kicks as he tends to be a step ahead in his foresight and also very quick when moving in one direction. My concerns with his agility have been more around getting beaten as the last line of defence (although he has done pretty well on that this 6N so far), so may be that was the concern.

I'd agree, the only time I think I've seen Steward exposed positionally at international level was Vs France last 6N where Dupont used his armchair ride to pull us apart. One on one tackling against flying wingers could be an issue but I'd not say Furbank's one on one tackling is any better, probably the reverse. There is a general theme with some England fans that seem to be infuriated when our fullback doesn't stop a try they'd want one of our wingers dropped for not finishing.

Furbank does bring a nice kicking game to the back three. Steward can kick it miles but there's not much variation. Furbank has a bit more finesse, perhaps we're looking at something on that front as we have tended to sit the 10 and 15 in the backfield. Give us two kicking options and look to pin back more than compete.

[p/d]

Spencer's due to get a 2 minute cameo off the bench, no doubt.

Puja

I'd guess that Care will be using supplementary orifices for oxygen intake if he is still there in the 77th minute. Common sense suggests Spencer in about the 50th minute.

{Haskell.gif} for the turn of phrase.

You're probably right; I'm just annoyed at Slovenly Benchusing's tendency towards bringing players on for token caps or just plain not using them at all. IFW should have had more than 1 cap for 3 minutes of gametime, we have learned practically nothing about FSmith's capabilities at international level from his 15 minutes against Italy, and it's infuriating that Dan, who at least has got on the pitch in both games, has only played 16 minutes in total.

Puja

or more than 3 minutes for I cap.

I know it was at the end of the game, but Dan came on in the 72nd min and managed 2 runs for 18m beat a defender and put in 5 tackles (missed 1 - only because Dingwall got in his way)

[Mellsblue]

Agreed, Russell is more likely to move the 15 around which I don't think would particularly suit Steward. I remain unconvinced by Furbank and suspect his game won't translate well to international level, but happy to see him tried. A distributor at 15 may lessen our centre woes.

Not a front row expert, but might the prop changes be so that our stronger scrummaging LH comes up against Millar-Mills?

I mean Steward's positioning in the backfield tends to be excellent, so I'd have no concern about him being moved around by kicks as he tends to be a step ahead in his foresight and also very quick when moving in one direction. My concerns with his agility have been more around getting beaten as the last line of defence (although he has done pretty well on that this 6N so far), so may be that was the concern.

I'd agree, the only time I think I've seen Steward exposed positionally at international level was Vs France last 6N where Dupont used his armchair ride to pull us apart. One on one tackling against flying wingers could be an issue but I'd not say Furbank's one on one tackling is any better, probably the reverse. There is a general theme with some England fans that seem to be infuriated when our fullback doesn't stop a try they'd want one of our wingers dropped for not finishing.

Furbank does bring a nice kicking game to the back three. Steward can kick it miles but there's not much variation. Furbank has a bit more finesse, perhaps we're looking at something on that front as we have tended to sit the 10 and 15 in the backfield. Give us two kicking options and look to pin back more than compete.

Do you honestly think Steward’s top end speed and lateral movement are test quality. It’s ok for players to have weaknesses. All do, including Dupont, I think.

[fivepointer]

The timing is odd with the Furbank selection. I've no problem in bringing him in to the side if the intention is to sharpen up our attack. Steward has his strengths but Furbank is a far sharper attacker.
Why now though? Surely bringing him in for either of the two previous games would have made more sense.

[p/d]

The timing is odd with the Furbank selection. I've no problem in bringing him in to the side if the intention is to sharpen up our attack. Steward has his strengths but Furbank is a far sharper attacker.
Why now though? Surely bringing him in for either of the two previous games would have made more sense.

Could it have something to do with the return of Lawrence, and with it the style of play they wanted to initiate from the start. I have no problem of changes if they're for a pre conceived gameplan, the problem is when they are made to shoehorn players in.

With Freeman and (god bless him) Daly he has wing men that can fulfil many of the roles expected of an fb. Plus I like the idea of Furbank appearing on the shoulder of Freeman

[Oakboy]

The timing is odd with the Furbank selection. I've no problem in bringing him in to the side if the intention is to sharpen up our attack. Steward has his strengths but Furbank is a far sharper attacker.
Why now though? Surely bringing him in for either of the two previous games would have made more sense.

Could it have something to do with the return of Lawrence, and with it the style of play they wanted to initiate from the start. I have no problem of changes if they're for a pre conceived gameplan, the problem is when they are made to shoehorn players in.

With Freeman and (god bless him) Daly he has wing men that can fulfil many of the roles expected of an fb. Plus I like the idea of Furbank appearing on the shoulder of Freeman

Maybe, the odds of Freeman getting on the shoulder of Slade increase with Lawrence there. Furbank might offer alernatives to both. Overall, attacking possibilities must increase mustn't they?

[p/d]

The timing is odd with the Furbank selection. I've no problem in bringing him in to the side if the intention is to sharpen up our attack. Steward has his strengths but Furbank is a far sharper attacker.
Why now though? Surely bringing him in for either of the two previous games would have made more sense.

Could it have something to do with the return of Lawrence, and with it the style of play they wanted to initiate from the start. I have no problem of changes if they're for a pre conceived gameplan, the problem is when they are made to shoehorn players in.

With Freeman and (god bless him) Daly he has wing men that can fulfil many of the roles expected of an fb. Plus I like the idea of Furbank appearing on the shoulder of Freeman

Maybe, the odds of Freeman getting on the shoulder of Slade increase with Lawrence there. Furbank might offer alernatives to both. Overall, attacking possibilities must increase mustn't they?

On paper the line up from 9-15 looks a step forward, especially if Lawrence hits the ground running. But going through moves on the training field is no substitute for game time together, so expect to see plenty of intent mixed with forced errors. Scotland are going to be a really tough nut to crack and our defence will be the key.

[Oakboy]

Could it have something to do with the return of Lawrence, and with it the style of play they wanted to initiate from the start. I have no problem of changes if they're for a pre conceived gameplan, the problem is when they are made to shoehorn players in.

With Freeman and (god bless him) Daly he has wing men that can fulfil many of the roles expected of an fb. Plus I like the idea of Furbank appearing on the shoulder of Freeman

Maybe, the odds of Freeman getting on the shoulder of Slade increase with Lawrence there. Furbank might offer alernatives to both. Overall, attacking possibilities must increase mustn't they?

On paper the line up from 9-15 looks a step forward, especially if Lawrence hits the ground running. But going through moves on the training field is no substitute for game time together, so expect to see plenty of intent mixed with forced errors. Scotland are going to be a really tough nut to crack and our defence will be the key.

Yep. Defensively, might the personnel changes help? Furbank's leadership experience this season and Lawrence's physicality could give an extra edge.

[FKAS]

Maybe, the odds of Freeman getting on the shoulder of Slade increase with Lawrence there. Furbank might offer alernatives to both. Overall, attacking possibilities must increase mustn't they?

On paper the line up from 9-15 looks a step forward, especially if Lawrence hits the ground running. But going through moves on the training field is no substitute for game time together, so expect to see plenty of intent mixed with forced errors. Scotland are going to be a really tough nut to crack and our defence will be the key.

Yep. Defensively, might the personnel changes help? Furbank's leadership experience this season and Lawrence's physicality could give an extra edge.

Lawrence will have his hands full with Tuipulotu, he'll do well to keep him quiet, for a big guy he's good hands and skills. I'd probably prefer us to have kept Dingwall at 12 and Lawrence gone into 13 but Borthwick seems to like more experience than that.

I think Furbank will be of more use when we have the ball. There's plenty of experience in the backline and leadership not really an issue. Might have been more useful if we'd gone Dingwall and Lawrence.

I think the first half might be a tough watch as we look to wear Scotland down. Furbank's kicking and hopefully his playmaking skills should be more key to that. Need to move the pack around get them struggling so we can turn the screw second half.

[Puja]

Do you honestly think Steward’s top end speed and lateral movement are test quality. It’s ok for players to have weaknesses. All do, including Dupont, I think.

Dupont's only weakness is a Namibian to the face.

Puja

[Puja]

On paper the line up from 9-15 looks a step forward, especially if Lawrence hits the ground running. But going through moves on the training field is no substitute for game time together, so expect to see plenty of intent mixed with forced errors. Scotland are going to be a really tough nut to crack and our defence will be the key.

Yep. Defensively, might the personnel changes help? Furbank's leadership experience this season and Lawrence's physicality could give an extra edge.

Lawrence will have his hands full with Tuipulotu, he'll do well to keep him quiet, for a big guy he's good hands and skills. I'd probably prefer us to have kept Dingwall at 12 and Lawrence gone into 13 but Borthwick seems to like more experience than that.

I think Furbank will be of more use when we have the ball. There's plenty of experience in the backline and leadership not really an issue. Might have been more useful if we'd gone Dingwall and Lawrence.

I think the first half might be a tough watch as we look to wear Scotland down. Furbank's kicking and hopefully his playmaking skills should be more key to that. Need to move the pack around get them struggling so we can turn the screw second half.

Charlie Morgan in the Telegraph says that Slade's in there because of his familiarity with switching to the blitz defence (as Exeter moved that way at the start of the season) and I have to say it's a reasonable call on that basis. Slade with ball in hand has been bang average (and that's being kind to him), but Slade in defence has been very, very good. In attack, I'd absolutely be having Lawrence at 13, but I'm not sure I want him in that pivotal defensive role when he's not had experience in this defensive system.

Puja

[FKAS]

Yep. Defensively, might the personnel changes help? Furbank's leadership experience this season and Lawrence's physicality could give an extra edge.

Lawrence will have his hands full with Tuipulotu, he'll do well to keep him quiet, for a big guy he's good hands and skills. I'd probably prefer us to have kept Dingwall at 12 and Lawrence gone into 13 but Borthwick seems to like more experience than that.

I think Furbank will be of more use when we have the ball. There's plenty of experience in the backline and leadership not really an issue. Might have been more useful if we'd gone Dingwall and Lawrence.

I think the first half might be a tough watch as we look to wear Scotland down. Furbank's kicking and hopefully his playmaking skills should be more key to that. Need to move the pack around get them struggling so we can turn the screw second half.

Charlie Morgan in the Telegraph says that Slade's in there because of his familiarity with switching to the blitz defence (as Exeter moved that way at the start of the season) and I have to say it's a reasonable call on that basis. Slade with ball in hand has been bang average (and that's being kind to him), but Slade in defence has been very, very good. In attack, I'd absolutely be having Lawrence at 13, but I'm not sure I want him in that pivotal defensive role when he's not had experience in this defensive system.

Puja

Makes sense. Would be nice to see Slade bring some of his Exeter form to England.

[p/d]

Do you honestly think Steward’s top end speed and lateral movement are test quality. It’s ok for players to have weaknesses. All do, including Dupont, I think.

Dupont's only weakness is a Namibian to the face.

Puja

I thought it was a lust for an Olympic medal

[Epaminondas Pules]

I love that fact we’ve brought Lawrence back in and completely ignored everything that has given him the opportunity shine at Bath with two playmakers inside of him. Super duper!

And three vice captains? Even if you have them don’t name it cause you end up looking like bell ends!!

[Puja]

I love that fact we’ve brought Lawrence back in and completely ignored everything that has given him the opportunity shine at Bath with two playmakers inside of him. Super duper!

And three vice captains? Even if you have them don’t name it cause you end up looking like bell ends!!

Entirely possible that he might end up with two playmakers inside him from set piece ball though.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

I love that fact we’ve brought Lawrence back in and completely ignored everything that has given him the opportunity shine at Bath with two playmakers inside of him. Super duper!

And three vice captains? Even if you have them don’t name it cause you end up looking like bell ends!!

Entirely possible that he might end up with two playmakers inside him from set piece ball though.

Puja

Maybe, though different styles of playmakers. And I’d wager we send him into brick walls a fair bit. Oddly if you bring Lawrence back in then it should really be Dingwall that’s retained not Slade if you want to maximise what makes Lawrence good.

[p/d]

I love that fact we’ve brought Lawrence back in and completely ignored everything that has given him the opportunity shine at Bath with two playmakers inside of him. Super duper!

And three vice captains? Even if you have them don’t name it cause you end up looking like bell ends!!

Entirely possible that he might end up with two playmakers inside him from set piece ball though.

Puja

Maybe, though different styles of playmakers. And I’d wager we send him into brick walls a fair bit. Oddly if you bring Lawrence back in then it should really be Dingwall that’s retained not Slade if you want to maximise what makes Lawrence good.

Or you bring in Lawrence if you want to maximise what makes Slade good

[Banquo]

I love that fact we’ve brought Lawrence back in and completely ignored everything that has given him the opportunity shine at Bath with two playmakers inside of him. Super duper!

And three vice captains? Even if you have them don’t name it cause you end up looking like bell ends!!

Entirely possible that he might end up with two playmakers inside him from set piece ball though.

Puja

Maybe, though different styles of playmakers. And I’d wager we send him into brick walls a fair bit. Oddly if you bring Lawrence back in then it should really be Dingwall that’s retained not Slade if you want to maximise what makes Lawrence good.

indeed

[Banquo]

Entirely possible that he might end up with two playmakers inside him from set piece ball though.

Puja

Maybe, though different styles of playmakers. And I’d wager we send him into brick walls a fair bit. Oddly if you bring Lawrence back in then it should really be Dingwall that’s retained not Slade if you want to maximise what makes Lawrence good.

Or you bring in Lawrence if you want to maximise what makes Slade good

explain? given Slade only looks good on Insta . Think the point is that Lawrence looks genuinely happier and more dangerous at 13; now if Slade were to be spending more time at 12, you may have a point

[p/d]

I have no problem with Lawrence at 12. We are clearly trying to tie in defenders and create more opportunities out wide. Ding & Dong have been really poor carrying and our conversion rate from line breaks is way down on what it was at the WC.

Only injury, an exodus to France and Gloucester failing to submit available players left us with a short term solution

[Danno]

Do you honestly think Steward’s top end speed and lateral movement are test quality. It’s ok for players to have weaknesses. All do, including Dupont, I think.

Dupont's only weakness is a Namibian to the face.

Puja

Where the actual fuck is the like function

[Danno]

Lawrence will have his hands full with Tuipulotu, he'll do well to keep him quiet, for a big guy he's good hands and skills. I'd probably prefer us to have kept Dingwall at 12 and Lawrence gone into 13 but Borthwick seems to like more experience than that.

I think Furbank will be of more use when we have the ball. There's plenty of experience in the backline and leadership not really an issue. Might have been more useful if we'd gone Dingwall and Lawrence.

I think the first half might be a tough watch as we look to wear Scotland down. Furbank's kicking and hopefully his playmaking skills should be more key to that. Need to move the pack around get them struggling so we can turn the screw second half.

Charlie Morgan in the Telegraph says that Slade's in there because of his familiarity with switching to the blitz defence (as Exeter moved that way at the start of the season) and I have to say it's a reasonable call on that basis. Slade with ball in hand has been bang average (and that's being kind to him), but Slade in defence has been very, very good. In attack, I'd absolutely be having Lawrence at 13, but I'm not sure I want him in that pivotal defensive role when he's not had experience in this defensive system.

Puja

Makes sense. Would be nice to see Slade bring some of his Exeter form to England.

Had to check the decade on this post.

[twitchy]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ld-cancer/



On the very same day that Steve Borthwick offered Jamie George the England captaincy, the 33-year-old was digesting the news that his mother, Jane, had been diagnosed with cancer. With every possible emotion whirling inside him, George had to weigh up whether he could accept the offer given such personal circumstances.

Yet, Jane, “the biggest rugby fan on earth”, whose passionate support for her son echoed equally loudly across school pitches and vast stadiums, told him in no uncertain terms that there was no decision to make. When George did captain England for the first time against Italy, Jane texted him to say it was the proudest day of her life, but by now she was now too ill to attend matches. Four days after her diagnosis had become terminal, Jane, passed away on February 14.

“It’s been really tough,” George said. “I found out about her cancer diagnosis on the same day I found out I was going to be England captain, so that was a pretty mixed day. We’ve been going through a lot as a family for a long period. The deterioration she had was really fast.

“When I told my mum and dad about me being captain and I was saying I was not sure if it was the right thing or not given the circumstances, my mum was literally distraught. She was like, ‘you can’t not take this because of me’ and my dad is in very much the same way since her passing. She passed on Wednesday, Thursday I went home and my dad was like, ‘do you think you’ll make this training session? I think it’d be good for you to get back with the boys’.”



Part of George’s mission statement has been to make England supporters proud of their team again and he has witnessed that firsthand through his mother’s experience. “She was the biggest rugby fan on earth, she loved this team, loved watching me play, she never missed a game,” George said. “The text I’ve got from her before my first game [as captain] is something I will treasure forever. She said it was the proudest day of her life, given what she was going through to still be able to put a smile on her face is huge.

“When I first became captain, I spoke a lot about showing how much it means to you to play for England and what an amazing impact you can have on people’s lives. I have seen it first-hand. My mum was on her death-bed talking about the England rugby team and how proud she was of me being able to do what I do. That’s absolutely incredible. She will be with me in some capacity on Saturday and that means a huge amount to me.”

George’s mother was his biggest fan, watching every one of his matches as a schoolboy right up until this year’s Six Nations when she was too ill to attend games in person. Sometimes her passion got too much for her son to handle. “We had quite a few heated debates,” George said. “She was quite vocal when I first came into playing rugby – especially professional rugby. It must be a difficult transition; you go from watching your son play for Haileybury School in front of 12 people to the following year I was playing at Vicarage Road for Saracens in front of 20,000 people. Her volume level didn’t change, despite sitting in a family box with everyone else’s families around!”



Borthwick spoke to George about whether he needed to take time away from the game and has checked in every day on his mental well-being. Yet there was never any doubt in George’s own mind that he wanted to play at Murrayfield, not least because that is what she would have wanted him to do.

“Those thoughts go into your mind [taking time out] but it’s not what she would have wanted me to do – it’s actually the last thing she would have wanted me to do,” George said. “It’s not what I wanted to do. I feel very privileged to do what I do and hopefully the boys will agree that I’ve been able to fulfil my role as captain and fulfil my role as a player in this team.

“It’s not an ideal situation to be in, but there was never any doubt in my mind that I wanted to be involved in this game. It’s what my Mum would have wanted. Wherever she is now she will be looking down telling everyone that is there that her son is the England captain. I know for a fact that meant a huge amount to her.”



George’s father, uncle, brothers and cousin will be attending Murrayfield on Saturday which he plainly admits will be an emotional occasion. “Whenever I’ve played, I’ve always wanted to make my family proud,” George said. “It’s been a huge driver for me. That won’t change this weekend – it will probably be enhanced this weekend. It will be emotional for me coming out. It will be the first game that she won’t be there. She wasn’t able to come to the first two games to watch, which has been tough in itself.

“That has always been my motivation - making friends and family proud. It will probably be multiplied this weekend by quite a bit but when you get into the arena, when you step on to the field, everything that has happened away from it, it’s actually quite a nice feeling to be able to forget everything that has happened previously.

“Of course I’m going to use motivation, I want to win for her and I want to win in her memory as much as I possibly can but I’m fully aware that Scotland aren’t going to allow us to do that. It would be an amazing story if it did, it would be an amazing situation for my family but regardless of the result, I’m going out there to make her proud, I’m going out there to make the rest of my family in the stands proud too.”

Borthwick, who has now worked alongside George at both club (Saracens) and country, described the hooker as “one of the strongest people I have ever met”.

He said: “Having played alongside Jamie for a number of years at Saracens and continued that with (coaching) England; Jamie’s brother worked at Saracens as well, and I knew Jamie’s mum pretty well. She used to give you the biggest hug after games. She was an incredible person and a very sad loss. She was at all of Jamie’s games that I can remember. That was the same when Jamie was coming through. There are a number of players who have grown up with Jamie who would have known his family. So it has impacted a lot of the players.

“Jamie George has got a strength in him that I think some people underestimate. He has a quiet strength that is phenomenal and it is one of the great assets that makes him a brilliant captain. He has had to be really strong. All the players are right behind him and supportive of him. I would describe him as one of the strongest people I have ever met.”