Scotland v England Sat 24 Feb 4.45pm

[Banquo]

I don't care if the 21 has to be an 18 year old kid, Spencer should not play for England.

Lawrence absolutely pitiful.

But the complete blame for this lies with Sweaty Blundering

Care and Spencer were both shocking. To be fair all of Mitchell, JvP and Quirke are out injured.

Not sure I can blame Borthwick when Scotland's tries came from unnecessary England errors. They weren't system errors they were individual skill errors. The Furbank gamble certainly didn't pay dividends, he was largely ineffective making the kind of errors that Steward would get crucified for. Borthwick has got to take some flak for the rolling maul game that did very little and where we conceded metres. Slippery Bathbomb is going to start feeling the pressure and is going to need to think of something pretty quick cause the Irish are up next and are the opposite of us, settled team playing cohesively both sides of the ball.

Borthwick has to take a lot of flak for me. Midfield selection was bollox, no real clarity on backrow and replacements strategy, lineout wasn’t great, and why we kept kicking it away in the last 15 minutes needing three scores is a mystery- that’s mindset and that’s down to him. He’s uninspiring, and the sides are once more so much less than the sum of their parts. It was a pile of shit in the second half.

[Big D]

Just want to say, fair play to Jamie George. Been a tough old week and played reasonably and fronted up for media etc.

Must have been a really hard 7-8 weeks and thoughts are with him and his family.

[Banquo]

….as predicted.., we are a developing team…young players…..

10/12/13 starting together for the first time sez sloppy bollox .,,, that was down to you mate.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I don't care if the 21 has to be an 18 year old kid, Spencer should not play for England.

Lawrence absolutely pitiful.

But the complete blame for this lies with Sweaty Blundering

Care and Spencer were both shocking. To be fair all of Mitchell, JvP and Quirke are out injured.

Not sure I can blame Borthwick when Scotland's tries came from unnecessary England errors. They weren't system errors they were individual skill errors. The Furbank gamble certainly didn't pay dividends, he was largely ineffective making the kind of errors that Steward would get crucified for. Borthwick has got to take some flak for the rolling maul game that did very little and where we conceded metres. Slippery Bathbomb is going to start feeling the pressure and is going to need to think of something pretty quick cause the Irish are up next and are the opposite of us, settled team playing cohesively both sides of the ball.

Borthwick has to take a lot of flak for me. Midfield selection was bollox, no real clarity on backrow and replacements strategy, lineout wasn’t great, and why we kept kicking it away in the last 15 minutes needing three scores is a mystery- that’s mindset and that’s down to him. He’s uninspiring, and the sides are once more so much less than the sum of their parts. It was a pile of shit in the second half.

This!! He’s incredibly frustrating as a coach! Utterly predictable outcome! I’m so bored of this now!!

[Oakboy]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Agreed. SB got some right and some wrong.

I did not see justification for Underhill and Roots being replaced but Earl left on.

Unfortunately, whatever else is debated, the fact is that if the starting 10s were swapped so would the result be.

[Banquo]

Btw, our defence was piss poor as well, or rather our tackling

[FKAS]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Was your favourite bit where he stepped two players and the offloaded to nobody or where he fell off a tackle on vdM and then hobbled back into the line having given himself a dead leg or was it where he let the ball go through his hands so he could head it to the opposition backs to score a run away try or was it when he jumped onto vdM as a second tackler didn't stop the offload and as he'd committed meant there was no cover defence?

[Banquo]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Unfortunately, whatever else is debated, the fact is that if the starting 10s were swapped so would the result be.

Say what????

[Oakboy]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Unfortunately, whatever else is debated, the fact is that if the starting 10s were swapped so would the result be.

Say what????

Yes, sorry if your rose-tints re Ford get misty.

[Banquo]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Was your favourite bit where he stepped two players and the offloaded to nobody or where he fell off a tackle on vdM and then hobbled back into the line having given himself a dead leg or was it where he let the ball go through his hands so he could head it to the opposition backs to score a run away try or was it when he jumped onto vdM as a second tackler didn't stop the offload and as he'd committed meant there was no cover defence?

Good attempt to distract attention from the real problems with the team.

[Banquo]

Unfortunately, whatever else is debated, the fact is that if the starting 10s were swapped so would the result be.

Say what????

Yes, sorry if your rose-tints re Ford get misty.

?? I call as I see, Ford wasn’t great but he wasn’t why we lost that match. You are a tad reductive when analysing tbh.

[Mr Mwenda]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

I'm emotional and looking for scapegoats so I am feeling quite negative about Furbank. What have I missed? Not a wind-up. It just seemed to me he was shaky and seemed to be taking unnecessary risks far too often while not adding masses to the backline.

[fivepointer]

Dismal.

At least in the 1st half we tried to play a bit.

2nd half saw the same error strewn effort, this time without a hint of any ambition. Scotland had very little to do to score points as we witlessly committed dull error after dull error.

The backs as a collective were disastrous. Save for a very good cameo from IFW they all under performed. Grieves me to say it as a big supporter but Lawrence was plainly not close to being match fit and shouldnt have been starting.

A major reverse. That wasnt remotely good enough and hard questions need to be asked of SB.

[Mr Mwenda]

Say what????

Yes, sorry if your rose-tints re Ford get misty.

?? I call as I see, Ford wasn’t great but he wasn’t why we lost that match. You are a tad reductive when analysing tbh.

To be fair, far too many players not being great is the problem. The question is whether they are poorly coached, not up to it or both. I do feel Ford's time is passed.

[p/d]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Unfortunately, whatever else is debated, the fact is that if the starting 10s were swapped so would the result be.

Say what????

Likewise Banquo. Sorry Dors, but I’m not jumping onto that bandwagon

[Stom]

I don't care if the 21 has to be an 18 year old kid, Spencer should not play for England.

Lawrence absolutely pitiful.

But the complete blame for this lies with Sweaty Blundering

Care and Spencer were both shocking. To be fair all of Mitchell, JvP and Quirke are out injured.

Not sure I can blame Borthwick when Scotland's tries came from unnecessary England errors. They weren't system errors they were individual skill errors. The Furbank gamble certainly didn't pay dividends, he was largely ineffective making the kind of errors that Steward would get crucified for. Borthwick has got to take some flak for the rolling maul game that did very little and where we conceded metres. Slippery Bathbomb is going to start feeling the pressure and is going to need to think of something pretty quick cause the Irish are up next and are the opposite of us, settled team playing cohesively both sides of the ball.

Honestly, what was shocking about Care? He looked what he is: 4th choice England SH. He made some poor passes, but he was quick to rucks, quick to make decisions, and his speed of passing was good.

Spencer looked like a Championship level SH. Slow to the breakdown, slow decision making, poor execution, and he had to take 2 steps before passing each time, giving the defense time to lineup.

If we're comparing the 2, Care gets a 5, Spencer gets a 1 for turning up. Utterly pitiful.

There was nothing wrong with Furbank, either. Just around him was shite. Lawrence and Slade were both utter gash, Daly was poor, and Ford had a terrible game.

Add into that the fact we had zero aim, goal, or seemingly gameplan outside our set defence, and it was the worst England performance since we were shat on by the French.

[16th man]

I predicted a chastening weekend, and it turns out I was right.

Just back in from the pub watching a first viewing, bit I suspect the MBM might again be largely positive for long stretches, but for the the live watch sniff test, again we're largely a poor side, who can't go more than 4 phases without cocking up.

Initial thoughts are that:
Root was exposed as highly limited.
Chessum was deeply ineffective, and looks callow next to Martin when he was brought on.
Ford was piss poor and sold out his backline numerous times with rank passes.
The 3rd try basically came from Care not being able to get above a jog to catch a not very good cross kick, having given Scotland field position from 2 shit kicks on the bounce.
Lawrence isn't match fit and should never have been on the pitch, especially seeing as we didn't actually appear to have a game plan for using him.
Some experienced props showed the ref they were on top in one scrum, then had a complete collapse of basic discipline.

Put on top of all that the fact that our defensive system looks like it's fragile to say the least, and when it fails it fails spectacularly.
Scotland took half time to look at what was happening with our blitz, dropped Russell back 5 yards and form that point on pretty much dictated the game.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Was your favourite bit where he stepped two players and the offloaded to nobody or where he fell off a tackle on vdM and then hobbled back into the line having given himself a dead leg or was it where he let the ball go through his hands so he could head it to the opposition backs to score a run away try or was it when he jumped onto vdM as a second tackler didn't stop the offload and as he'd committed meant there was no cover defence?

Furbank made some mistakes sure, but blaming him for Ford throwing the ball into his face is some stretch!

[Oakboy]

Dismal.

At least in the 1st half we tried to play a bit.

2nd half saw the same error strewn effort, this time without a hint of any ambition. Scotland had very little to do to score points as we witlessly committed dull error after dull error.

The backs as a collective were disastrous. Save for a very good cameo from IFW they all under performed. Grieves me to say it as a big supporter but Lawrence was plainly not close to being match fit and shouldnt have been starting.

A major reverse. That wasnt remotely good enough and hard questions need to be asked of SB.

It must all rest on SB's shoulders. How did Lawrence show enough in training to convince that he was match-fit? How did Smith suddenly justify 20 minutes, coming on at such a crucial time - unless Ford's selection was wrong in the first place? If IFW was as good in training as his cameo appearance suggested why did he not start? Etc.

[Danno]

20 tackles missed, 22 turnovers conceded, 11 knock ons. Sobering stats.

Still, only 5 pens against us.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Dismal.

At least in the 1st half we tried to play a bit.

2nd half saw the same error strewn effort, this time without a hint of any ambition. Scotland had very little to do to score points as we witlessly committed dull error after dull error.

The backs as a collective were disastrous. Save for a very good cameo from IFW they all under performed. Grieves me to say it as a big supporter but Lawrence was plainly not close to being match fit and shouldnt have been starting.

A major reverse. That wasnt remotely good enough and hard questions need to be asked of SB.

It must all rest on SB's shoulders. How did Lawrence show enough in training to convince that he was match-fit? How did Smith suddenly justify 20 minutes, coming on at such a crucial time - unless Ford's selection was wrong in the first place? If IFW was as good in training as his cameo appearance suggested why did he not start? Etc.

Moreover why was Lawrence picked in a position and with supporting players that negate what makes him successful!

[Stom]

The defensive system itself was excellent. Our work on defensive rucks was generally very good until we went all headless chicken. Our attacking rucks with Care on the pitch were good.

Everything that was a "system play" worked.

But as soon as play broke down...

We were so inept it was embarrassing.

This screams a coaching team who are so focused on minutiae they cannot prepare players to play rugby.

And if there's one thing we know Scotland love to do...it's create chaos. Their entire gameplan is built around creating chaos and having Russell release a set of fast backs on broken fields. So our massive weakness was exploited by the exact thing Scotland are very good at.

So why didn't we know this? Why didn't we know, if SB is such an analytics god, how many of Scotland's tries come through bursting tackles in broken field? Come off turnover ball?

If he knew, and we still played that way, the man is a prize idiot.

If he didn't know...the man is a prize idiot.

The fact we kicked so much in that second half screamed of a team who did not know what to do. And that rests on SB.

This was an appalling performance. Mainly because we showed in the first 15 minutes that this wasn't a good Scotland team. That they could be broken down with relative ease.

And then we just rolled over and asked for belly scratches.

[Mush]

SB wasn't responsible for so much miss poor execution.

[FKAS]

Furbank was fine and plenty rests on the shoulders of SB

Was your favourite bit where he stepped two players and the offloaded to nobody or where he fell off a tackle on vdM and then hobbled back into the line having given himself a dead leg or was it where he let the ball go through his hands so he could head it to the opposition backs to score a run away try or was it when he jumped onto vdM as a second tackler didn't stop the offload and as he'd committed meant there was no cover defence?

Furbank made some mistakes sure, but blaming him for Ford throwing the ball into his face is some stretch!

Poor pass from Ford but Furbank still let it go through his hands.

Not really sure why the overall England execution is so poor. It's not like they are unskillful players who don't play at a high level. It's not like the system is mind-blowingly complicated. Good job Borthers has got any hair or he'd be pulling it out.

[16th man]

The defensive system itself was excellent.

Any system that falls apart so badly when it fails can't be seen as excellent.