Scotland v England Sat 24 Feb 4.45pm

[Spiffy]

hope spiff watched

I did. Enjoyed the second half. Really feel for Italy. The France pre RWC team seems to have imploded this 6N. You have to wonder how much they depended on Dupont.

[FKAS]

hope spiff watched

I did. Enjoyed the second half. Really feel for Italy. The France pre RWC team seems to have imploded this 6N. You have to wonder how much they depended on Dupont.

His skillset we all saw but I think we're now realising how much leadership he brought to the side as well.

[p/d]

Thought old biceps reffed well on his test debut.

[Mikey Brown]

Kudos to Garbisi for seeing the wry humour in it and not going all flappy and angry.

His attitude in that interview was fantastic. I’d be calling god a cunt for inventing wind if I’d been in his situation.

[fivepointer]

France went forward twice before Garbisi kicked the ball. The kick could have been advanced 10m. At the very least the shot clock should have been put back to zero and the French warned not to advance.

[Spiffy]

France went forward twice before Garbisi kicked the ball. The kick could have been advanced 10m. At the very least the shot clock should have been put back to zero and the French warned not to advance.

Yes. And wasn't there a French water carrier pissing about in front of him too?

[morepork]

France went forward twice before Garbisi kicked the ball. The kick could have been advanced 10m. At the very least the shot clock should have been put back to zero and the French warned not to advance.

Yes. And wasn't there a French water carrier pissing about in front of him too?

Yes. Plus the French were charging the kicker before he had started his run in.

[francoisfou]

Can’t help thinking that Jonno would’ve laid down the law at halftime and demanded in no uncertain terms what was expected of his players.

Like who? Farrell? I don’t think we really know what the expectations or the message is. I don’t think “stop dropping the ball” or “stop giving away stupid penalties” is ever a demand that is actually going to solve problems. It wouldn’t matter if it was Johnson or McCaw or whoever saying it.

The players just look absolutely clueless outside of anything pre-rehearsed.

Farrell? No. I don’t think England have had a captain who commands total respect from the players since the Johnson days. If they did, I think it would make a difference.

[p/d]

And the water carrier swapped the tee with a faulty one

[Banquo]

Kudos to Garbisi for seeing the wry humour in it and not going all flappy and angry.

His attitude in that interview was fantastic. I’d be calling god a cunt for inventing wind if I’d been in his situation.

Not sure how much wind in an enclosed stadium

[Banquo]

And the water carrier swapped the tee with a faulty one

And blew heavily on the ball with full garlic

[Mikey Brown]

Kudos to Garbisi for seeing the wry humour in it and not going all flappy and angry.

His attitude in that interview was fantastic. I’d be calling god a cunt for inventing wind if I’d been in his situation.

Not sure how much wind in an enclosed stadium

Logic wouldn't have come in to it.

[p/d]

Kudos to Garbisi for seeing the wry humour in it and not going all flappy and angry.

His attitude in that interview was fantastic. I’d be calling god a cunt for inventing wind if I’d been in his situation.

Not sure how much wind in an enclosed stadium

Somebody did mention Dewi

[morepork]

hope spiff watched

I did. Enjoyed the second half. Really feel for Italy. The France pre RWC team seems to have imploded this 6N. You have to wonder how much they depended on Dupont.

Jesus man, it seems Dupont was player coach, not just player.

[SixAndAHalf]

whole thing lacks any connection and cohesion.

By the way, Slightly Bemusing was going on about it being a young side.....really? Hardly the first rodeo for Genge, Marler, George, Cole, Stuart, Itoje, Underhill, Earl, Care, Ford, Daly, Slade.....Chessum and Martin have good intl experience, and Spencer and Furbank hardly young. Even Freeman is pretty experienced, tho should have 10 more caps at least.

I'll grant that there are some tyros in CCS, Fin Smith and IFW....but the core has huge experience.

Still can't quite believe what I was watching in the last 10 minutes- absolutely no urgency or willingness to chase the game ball in hand. Even with our put in at scrums, we fannied about, didn't engage properly; took 30-45 seconds to bang any penalties into touch, took ages to get to the lineout. Zero game awareness- its zombie like. Over analysed, over coached yet under prepared.

I was surprised by that comment, especially in relation to 10, 12, 13. Fair enough if you have picked a young combo, but before that combo from today has 15 starts together I imagine at least one amd maybe two of them will have been replaced.

I've been thinking about this and I think Borthwick might not be doing the team any favours by trying to simplify the attack. A lot of it seems to depend on powerful runners making ground but that relies on passes being slick phase after phase and runners timing their runs right. One or two aren't right or you get slow ball and, at international level, you grind to a complete halt. England then don't have much deception. In a way, being more complex and having more strike plays might be a bit simpler as it doesn't depend on repeated perfection.

I commented on that one earlier- ludicrous comment, he chose that combo, when he didn't have to--- and it was compounded by Lawrence being out of position and 'rusty'.

Our attack is badly coached imo, IDK if SB has any clue there anyway tbh. One of the pundits said exactly as you did on deception- the try we scored in the second half came simply from the blind side wing coming late onto pass on a subtle angle....not pre rehearsed either.

The attack has been poor under the whole of Borthers’ tenure. Its just ponderous one up runners which is dependent upon individual brilliance to get us over the gain line. Its noticeable that when players have the ball they have limited options whereas you watch Ireland and each player always has three options (carry, tip on, pull back).

Its not even ridiculously complicated its just about having a system that everyone buys into.

Hard to do with a coach who has been doing it for 5 mins.

[Banquo]

I was surprised by that comment, especially in relation to 10, 12, 13. Fair enough if you have picked a young combo, but before that combo from today has 15 starts together I imagine at least one amd maybe two of them will have been replaced.

I've been thinking about this and I think Borthwick might not be doing the team any favours by trying to simplify the attack. A lot of it seems to depend on powerful runners making ground but that relies on passes being slick phase after phase and runners timing their runs right. One or two aren't right or you get slow ball and, at international level, you grind to a complete halt. England then don't have much deception. In a way, being more complex and having more strike plays might be a bit simpler as it doesn't depend on repeated perfection.

I commented on that one earlier- ludicrous comment, he chose that combo, when he didn't have to--- and it was compounded by Lawrence being out of position and 'rusty'.

Our attack is badly coached imo, IDK if SB has any clue there anyway tbh. One of the pundits said exactly as you did on deception- the try we scored in the second half came simply from the blind side wing coming late onto pass on a subtle angle....not pre rehearsed either.

The attack has been poor under the whole of Borthers’ tenure. Its just ponderous one up runners which is dependent upon individual brilliance to get us over the gain line. Its noticeable that when players have the ball they have limited options whereas you watch Ireland and each player always has three options (carry, tip on, pull back).

Its not even ridiculously complicated its just about having a system that everyone buys into.

Hard to do with a coach who has been doing it for 5 mins.

you mean wiggy?

[Adam_P]

Much as I don't want it to happen from a Saints perspective, but how long will the RFU let this shit show progress for without throwing some cash at Sam Vesty?

These backs are worse in every aspect when playing for England compared to their clubs. Yes they are up against international opponents - but when basic passing and catching is so consistently poor across the backs something is badly wrong.

I think those who raise the idea that the team is over-coached are on to something. Pressure to make a play resulting in passes being launched at each other with unnecessary force?

[Oakboy]

Much as I don't want it to happen from a Saints perspective, but how long will the RFU let this shit show progress for without throwing some cash at Sam Vesty?

These backs are worse in every aspect when playing for England compared to their clubs. Yes they are up against international opponents - but when basic passing and catching is so consistently poor across the backs something is badly wrong.

I think those who raise the idea that the team is over-coached are on to something. Pressure to make a play resulting in passes being launched at each other with unnecessary force?

That's what I was getting at with saying that Freeman has got worse over three matches despite working hard. I'm not for a second suggesting he is at fault in terms of his individual skill or effort - more that his undoubted assets are not being used. That results in his contributions being on the edge of things - chasing bad kicks, desperately trying to cover for Ford's mistakes etc.

In the never-ending debate about how good our players are, one certain factor, IMO, is our coaching crew's inability to get the best out of what we have. Managing to sideline Freeman makes an obvious statement about coaching incompetence.

[Banquo]

Much as I don't want it to happen from a Saints perspective, but how long will the RFU let this shit show progress for without throwing some cash at Sam Vesty?

These backs are worse in every aspect when playing for England compared to their clubs. Yes they are up against international opponents - but when basic passing and catching is so consistently poor across the backs something is badly wrong.

I think those who raise the idea that the team is over-coached are on to something. Pressure to make a play resulting in passes being launched at each other with unnecessary force?

In the never-ending debate about how good our players are, one certain factor, IMO, is our coaching crew's inability to get the best out of what we have.

Abso-fckin-lutely. Only one coach has got close to this in a sustained period in over 20 years.

[FKAS]

I commented on that one earlier- ludicrous comment, he chose that combo, when he didn't have to--- and it was compounded by Lawrence being out of position and 'rusty'.

Our attack is badly coached imo, IDK if SB has any clue there anyway tbh. One of the pundits said exactly as you did on deception- the try we scored in the second half came simply from the blind side wing coming late onto pass on a subtle angle....not pre rehearsed either.

The attack has been poor under the whole of Borthers’ tenure. Its just ponderous one up runners which is dependent upon individual brilliance to get us over the gain line. Its noticeable that when players have the ball they have limited options whereas you watch Ireland and each player always has three options (carry, tip on, pull back).

Its not even ridiculously complicated its just about having a system that everyone buys into.

Hard to do with a coach who has been doing it for 5 mins.

you mean wiggy?

I think leaving Wigglesworth in charge of the attack has been one of Silly Baskets worse decisions. We could have maintained the Sinfield defence until the end of the summer and had Felix Jones a man who has coached a world cup winning attack previously take on the task.

Best we can hope for now is that Vesty can be borrowed for the next three weeks.

[Banquo]

The attack has been poor under the whole of Borthers’ tenure. Its just ponderous one up runners which is dependent upon individual brilliance to get us over the gain line. Its noticeable that when players have the ball they have limited options whereas you watch Ireland and each player always has three options (carry, tip on, pull back).

Its not even ridiculously complicated its just about having a system that everyone buys into.

Hard to do with a coach who has been doing it for 5 mins.

you mean wiggy?

I think leaving Wigglesworth in charge of the attack has been one of Silly Baskets worse decisions. We could have maintained the Sinfield defence until the end of the summer and had Felix Jones a man who has coached a world cup winning attack previously take on the task.

Best we can hope for now is that Vesty can be borrowed for the next three weeks.

Trouble is we compound bad decisions with worse ones.....and maybe that's reflected on the field. Silly Bollox needs some help for sure.

[Oakboy]

you mean wiggy?

I think leaving Wigglesworth in charge of the attack has been one of Silly Baskets worse decisions. We could have maintained the Sinfield defence until the end of the summer and had Felix Jones a man who has coached a world cup winning attack previously take on the task.

Best we can hope for now is that Vesty can be borrowed for the next three weeks.

Trouble is we compound bad decisions with worse ones.....and maybe that's reflected on the field. Silly Bollox needs some help for sure.

How did he convince the RFU that he had all bases covered? SB strikes me as a reasonable manager but the various functions always needed extra expertise.

[p/d]

This is a young side, there will always be bumps on the road to development……….. jeez, give the man a break.

[Epaminondas Pules]

https://x.com/bbcsport/status/176183763 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

[Mellsblue]

https://x.com/bbcsport/status/176183763 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

Insert vomit emoji here.