England v. Ireland

[Banquo]

True. The knives are out for Ford but his game with ball in hand was good.

I do feel that Ford is getting unfair flack because he's one of the old guard, bar his two drop goal attempts in play he was good. He and Mitchell were composed and bossed the game. Kicking off the tee was pretty woeful and unFord like. Be interesting to see what Borthwick does but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept it as is.

restricted to his passing ability

pretty key though- his range and normal accuracy are defence breakers with the right runners- dream to build an attack around. Plus his variety of kicks.

[Which Tyler]

Ford has always been a great 10 for getting a backline moving, strongest part of his game. He's been kicking too much for club and country in recent years, under orders.

he 'got turned over' because his support runners were standing having look from what I remember....but he tries stuff, and needs help. When players start to react better to unpredictable outcomes, we'll take a huge leap forward.

[Banquo]

Old guard or not his attacking threat is restricted to his passing ability ( which has never been doubted).

And his brain, and his vision, and his game management, and his territorial kicking...


I'm a big fan of FSmith, and a moderate one of MSmith*, but if either had played that game and done exactly the same thing in the same situations, including the missed kicks, we'd be lauding them to high heaven (and pointing out that the missed kicks are a rarity).
Had Farrell done so, we'd all have been here apologising, and marvelling at his newfound powers.


* I'm told that he's really added game management to his repertoire, and once I've seen it for myself, I'll become a big fan.

Really?
Wow. We do have a low bar

short memory?

[p/d]

I do feel that Ford is getting unfair flack because he's one of the old guard, bar his two drop goal attempts in play he was good. He and Mitchell were composed and bossed the game. Kicking off the tee was pretty woeful and unFord like. Be interesting to see what Borthwick does but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept it as is.

Old guard or not his attacking threat is restricted to his passing ability ( which has never been doubted). Outside of that, meh

Agreed. I've always said about Ford that what he CAN do is top drawer whereas what he DOES do is disappointing. SB, reportedly, was planning to start the 6N with Marcus and Fin with Ford as 3rd choice cover. Reverting to that is the way to go.

Looks like we are pushing against the tide. I find him frustrating to watch. Yesterday he looked shot after leaving more points out there. Absolutely no surprise he was subbed when he was.

However 10 isn’t a problem, and certainly not one that needs addressing. Ford/Smith puts us in a good place.

Mitchell backs was a massive bonus.

[Puja]

Did ye see the genge incident? Looks reckless fair play to furlong for bouncing up - maybe minimal head contact?

Saw it live and have picked it out in the m-b-m - looked exceptionally nasty and, if it wasn't a shoulder charge contact to the head, it wasn't for lack of trying. He needs to get himself under control. I think the TMO was having some video feed problems then - he didn't look at that or the high tackle on Genge that England were whinging about and appeared to be stuck on the same three replays of the Furbank knock on for the disallowed try, before the ref gave up and moved on. If so, there could be a citing incoming.

Puja

[Oakboy]

He's been kicking too much for club and country in recent years, under orders.

Is it totally under orders, though? A couple of his spiral bombs yesterday were pretty pointless when passing or running seemed the better option to my simple brain. Maybe, the years of orders have affected his default action and if he's not absolutely 100% fit, that's a factor too. I just can't believe orders for yesterday included 'kick and hope' when something better is on.

I think we've reached the point where Ford is showing some of what he should have been offering (ahead of Farrell, anyway) but the two Smiths (Marcus especially) can do it better. All the old guard need nudging towards the exit door in a controlled way.

[Banquo]

He's been kicking too much for club and country in recent years, under orders.

Is it totally under orders, though?

yes- we did kick 50% less than all other games this season. You have to mix it up to keep the back field honest.

[Banquo]

Old guard or not his attacking threat is restricted to his passing ability ( which has never been doubted). Outside of that, meh

Agreed. I've always said about Ford that what he CAN do is top drawer whereas what he DOES do is disappointing. SB, reportedly, was planning to start the 6N with Marcus and Fin with Ford as 3rd choice cover. Reverting to that is the way to go.

Looks like we are pushing against the tide.

cos you are wrong, Canute? After all, its not that long ago he was MOTM v Argentina in the world cup when nearly singlehandedly winning a game with 14 men; he was very good all tournie, until ridiculously being dropped ('change of role') for Faz.

I do agree about a frustrating watch though- when he plays to his real strength, distribution at the tackle line, he can split any side apart with some running options. They collectively need to rid themselves of kicking tourettes tho.

[Mikey Brown]

I love this wing combo. Do we not feel like Steward might do a bit better now having two serious running threats alongside him? Or are they just looking so good because of Furbank sparking things?

I would say that the opposition defence knowing they can't cheat themselves half a yard to cover the wingers anymore, as Furbank has the pace to make a half gap a big break, makes a big difference, as does Lawrence offering running threat in the centres.

My worry would be if Roots does have to come back in from Chessum, and CCS is out too, the mobility and ability of the pack to support them is going to be very much tested.

Maybe, SB will shock us with a call-up for Mercer or, better still, Jack Willis (under emergency protocol).

Maybe Lawes will unretire. Maybe Hill will get his boots back on. Maybe Dan Ward-Smith has gotten over that injury.

I like this game.

[p/d]

Or Kruis dragged out of retirement for his place kicking

[Puja]

I would say that the opposition defence knowing they can't cheat themselves half a yard to cover the wingers anymore, as Furbank has the pace to make a half gap a big break, makes a big difference, as does Lawrence offering running threat in the centres.

My worry would be if Roots does have to come back in from Chessum, and CCS is out too, the mobility and ability of the pack to support them is going to be very much tested.

Maybe, SB will shock us with a call-up for Mercer or, better still, Jack Willis (under emergency protocol).

Maybe Lawes will unretire. Maybe Hill will get his boots back on. Maybe Dan Ward-Smith has gotten over that injury.

I like this game.

I don't know Sam Hill would be the solution to our centre woes...

Puja

[p/d]

Ramos is a monster in defence. Edwards bound to be paying for his dinner tonight

[Which Tyler]

Ramos is a monster in defence. Edwards bound to be paying for his dinner tonight

Been doing some one on one sessions with Harry Malinder

[p/d]

Ramos is a monster in defence. Edwards bound to be paying for his dinner tonight

Been doing some one on one sessions with Harry Malinder

I was going to throw young Harry to the wolves as well.

[16th man]

Hope we get a ref who lets us get away with dropping their scrum like this next weekend too.

[Puja]

Wild game. France look like they met in the carpark before the match - absolutely no-one is in synch with each other in attack or defence, but they're getting away with it on sheer individual quality right now. Wales comedically outmatched at times, and at others they're the better team. Reffell is immense though - Wales absolutely cannot afford to have him off the pitch injured, when he's playing like that.

Puja

[p/d]

I hope we don’t get MJ doing the half time summary. He is a hero, but jeez

[Which Tyler]

I was going to throw young Harry to the wolves as well.

Is it full rolling subs in Gridiron? Or does he have to stay on for a minute or two after kicking a ball?
Any NFL player running in his general direction is going to have fun.

[16th man]

Watching the drop goal again. Just imagining the aneurysms on here if one of our players had given up that 2nd penalty by the posts.

[FKAS]

"Sometimes, it's just a kick that was too good and you have to give credit to the opposition"

You do but a fullback needs to know where the touchline is. Positioning is everything, have to flick the eyes down to the pitch like checking the mirrors in your car. You don't stare at them it's the briefest glance then back to the main focus which in this case is the ball. I also think Furbank would have got less stick had he not just cocked up moments before at the other end.

Great work again Puja. I certainly felt at halftime that we had some real signs of life in terms of our attack and that the defence has worked well with Ireland having created not very much.

I feel - but will have a look- he just wasn't deep enough, given we know how long Lowe can kick, if he's deep enough, he's got time to get outside the touchline and then easier to step into the field to take or just let it land out on the fly. Not a good look, but whether G-P's faffing 'lured' the backfield forwards a bit, I'd need to check.

However, I thought he added substantially more than he detracted, and in attack brought energy and purpose; he also took a very good and important high ball under the posts, so credit for that. I do think the jury is a bit out, but he has the ability to cement his place imo.

He’s definitely in credit given what he did in attack but he does need to cut out the glaring errors. This week was better than last so it’s a step in the right direction. He’s on record as struggling with confidence so perhaps he’ll slowly improve as he grows in confidence. As you’ve stated previously, he’s pretty key to the new attack so let’s hope he continues to improve. There are trade offs with any player you select, bar RICH LANE!!!

That's where I'm at. He's incredibly frustrating to watch. If England had their attack more together those errors would see him dropped but as we haven't he's probably in luck. He certainly adds a different dynamic to the backline, though every time I thought "that's a nice take at the back" it did turn out to be Ford back there which was another mild annoyance. It would be an easier decision if Steward had been as average for England as he'd been for Tigers but he was one of our best players Vs Wales and by a distance.

I'm with Puja, the French defence looks a mess with Ramos at 10 with the young kid then abandoned our of position at 12 (I think I'm right in saying he's normally a 13) trying to cover for him. With that in mind retaining Furbank to start could help us open up the attack. I'd definitely consider bringing Steward onto the bench for Daly though. The ability to go to the air in the second half if France are starting to turn the screw with those colossal forward replacements could be a bit of a get out of jail card.

[Mellsblue]

I feel - but will have a look- he just wasn't deep enough, given we know how long Lowe can kick, if he's deep enough, he's got time to get outside the touchline and then easier to step into the field to take or just let it land out on the fly. Not a good look, but whether G-P's faffing 'lured' the backfield forwards a bit, I'd need to check.

However, I thought he added substantially more than he detracted, and in attack brought energy and purpose; he also took a very good and important high ball under the posts, so credit for that. I do think the jury is a bit out, but he has the ability to cement his place imo.

He’s definitely in credit given what he did in attack but he does need to cut out the glaring errors. This week was better than last so it’s a step in the right direction. He’s on record as struggling with confidence so perhaps he’ll slowly improve as he grows in confidence. As you’ve stated previously, he’s pretty key to the new attack so let’s hope he continues to improve. There are trade offs with any player you select, bar RICH LANE!!!

That's where I'm at. He's incredibly frustrating to watch. If England had their attack more together those errors would see him dropped but as we haven't he's probably in luck. He certainly adds a different dynamic to the backline, though every time I thought "that's a nice take at the back" it did turn out to be Ford back there which was another mild annoyance. It would be an easier decision if Steward had been as average for England as he'd been for Tigers but he was one of our best players Vs Wales and by a distance.

I'm with Puja, the French defence looks a mess with Ramos at 10 with the young kid then abandoned our of position at 12 (I think I'm right in saying he's normally a 13) trying to cover for him. With that in mind retaining Furbank to start could help us open up the attack. I'd definitely consider bringing Steward onto the bench for Daly though. The ability to go to the air in the second half if France are starting to turn the screw with those colossal forward replacements could be a bit of a get out of jail card.

Ignoring the fact that you’re a far from neutral observer…
Regardless of how well he’s playing, there’s no way Steward can bring to the attack what Furbank does. If you’re arguing for eg Malins who could somewhat replicate what Furbank brings then I could see the logic.
Who plays on the wing if Steward is on the bench and IFW/Freeman is injured? Selecting someone for as narrow a reason of needing ‘to go to the air’ is nonsensical for more than that one reason.

[Which Tyler]

I'm with Puja, the French defence looks a mess with Ramos at 10 with the young kid then abandoned our of position at 12 (I think I'm right in saying he's normally a 13) trying to cover for him. With that in mind retaining Furbank to start could help us open up the attack. I'd definitely consider bringing Steward onto the bench for Daly though. The ability to go to the air in the second half if France are starting to turn the screw with those colossal forward replacements could be a bit of a get out of jail card.

On the other hand, running Steward at Ramos, off Ford's inside shoulder, could be fun.


Quite honestly, I see FB as a horses-for-courses selection between the two of them. Neither are perfect, both are plenty good enough, and have time to work on their weaknesses. I'm not going to complain about seeing either of them of the team sheet right now (happier with either, than Daly).

Should also add, I'd be keeping an eye out for DeGlanville and Hodge as potentially confusing the issue.

[Banquo]

He’s definitely in credit given what he did in attack but he does need to cut out the glaring errors. This week was better than last so it’s a step in the right direction. He’s on record as struggling with confidence so perhaps he’ll slowly improve as he grows in confidence. As you’ve stated previously, he’s pretty key to the new attack so let’s hope he continues to improve. There are trade offs with any player you select, bar RICH LANE!!!

That's where I'm at. He's incredibly frustrating to watch. If England had their attack more together those errors would see him dropped but as we haven't he's probably in luck. He certainly adds a different dynamic to the backline, though every time I thought "that's a nice take at the back" it did turn out to be Ford back there which was another mild annoyance. It would be an easier decision if Steward had been as average for England as he'd been for Tigers but he was one of our best players Vs Wales and by a distance.

I'm with Puja, the French defence looks a mess with Ramos at 10 with the young kid then abandoned our of position at 12 (I think I'm right in saying he's normally a 13) trying to cover for him. With that in mind retaining Furbank to start could help us open up the attack. I'd definitely consider bringing Steward onto the bench for Daly though. The ability to go to the air in the second half if France are starting to turn the screw with those colossal forward replacements could be a bit of a get out of jail card.

Ignoring the fact that you’re a far from neutral observer…
Regardless of how well he’s playing, there’s no way Steward can bring to the attack what Furbank does. If you’re arguing for eg Malins who could somewhat replicate what Furbank brings then I could see the logic.
Who plays on the wing if Steward is on the bench and IFW/Freeman is injured? Selecting someone for as narrow a reason of needing ‘to go to the air’ is nonsensical for more than that one reason.

yeah Steward to the bench doesn't make much sense tbh given alternatives and squad configuration.

[Mellsblue]

I'm with Puja, the French defence looks a mess with Ramos at 10 with the young kid then abandoned our of position at 12 (I think I'm right in saying he's normally a 13) trying to cover for him. With that in mind retaining Furbank to start could help us open up the attack. I'd definitely consider bringing Steward onto the bench for Daly though. The ability to go to the air in the second half if France are starting to turn the screw with those colossal forward replacements could be a bit of a get out of jail card.

On the other hand, running Steward at Ramos, off Ford's inside shoulder, could be fun.


Quite honestly, I see FB as a horses-for-courses selection between the two of them. Neither are perfect, both are plenty good enough, and have time to work on their weaknesses. I'm not going to complain about seeing either of them of the team sheet right now (happier with either, than Daly).

Yep, both flawed. It’s akin to the Ford vs Farrell debate, for me. It really depends how you want to play the game as to who you’d prefer to be selected.

[Oakboy]

I'm with Puja, the French defence looks a mess with Ramos at 10 with the young kid then abandoned our of position at 12 (I think I'm right in saying he's normally a 13) trying to cover for him. With that in mind retaining Furbank to start could help us open up the attack. I'd definitely consider bringing Steward onto the bench for Daly though. The ability to go to the air in the second half if France are starting to turn the screw with those colossal forward replacements could be a bit of a get out of jail card.

On the other hand, running Steward at Ramos, off Ford's inside shoulder, could be fun.


Quite honestly, I see FB as a horses-for-courses selection between the two of them. Neither are perfect, both are plenty good enough, and have time to work on their weaknesses. I'm not going to complain about seeing either of them of the team sheet right now (happier with either, than Daly).

Yep, both flawed. It’s akin to the Ford vs Farrell debate, for me. It really depends how you want to play the game as to who you’d prefer to be selected.

???? Does anybody not want us to keep the ball in hand and attack more (than in earlier 'kick and hope' games)?