France v England

[Banquo]

moral victory....4 tries to 3!

[Mellsblue]

Being a wing in this system must be a nightmare. Ditto 13.

13 has all the work and decn making (as always ) in defence. Seems the wings arent synced/being talked to.

Can’t say it with certainty as my interest lies with the attack but the winger seems to have to cover the ball/carrier that beats the 13 on both the inside and the outside. Bon chance.

[Banquo]

d Ford is better with a strike runner

for sure, but it could be any of syd, earl, freeman, ifw...even the wingco.

Agreed. I just think Ford performs better knowing he has a top class ball carrier at 12.

agreed, tho its hard to prove as hes hardly ever had one- i liked the mix and match today.

[Which Tyler]

Agreed. I just think Ford performs better knowing he has a top class ball carrier at 12.

Doesn't every fly half?
It's like saying that a THP scrummages better when they've a monster truck pushing them forwards, or a SH plays better when the forwards give him the ball on a plate instantly at every ruck.

The problem comes when a FH can't manage without said ball carrier on their shoulder, because it's not always an option.
And if a FH can still excel without one, then coaches have many more options for setting up the team. But every FH loves to have a get-out-of-jail-free ball carrier on his shoulder, and a quick agile guy an easy pass away, and a big guy cutting a line across at pace from the back, and....

[Mellsblue]

for sure, but it could be any of syd, earl, freeman, ifw...even the wingco.

Agreed. I just think Ford performs better knowing he has a top class ball carrier at 12.

agreed, tho its hard to prove as hes hardly ever had one- i liked the mix and match today.

Agreed agreed. Albeit #justice4eastmond

[Mellsblue]

Agreed. I just think Ford performs better knowing he has a top class ball carrier at 12.

Doesn't every fly half?

The problem comes when a FH can't manage without said ball carrier on their shoulder, because it's not always an option.
And if a FH can still excel without one, then coaches have many more options for setting up the team. But every FH loves to have a get-out-of-jail-free ball carrier on his shoulder, and a quick agile guy an easy pass away, and a big guy cutting a line across at pace from the back, and....

No. Some perform better with a 2nd 5/8th type IC but I’d say Ford is fairly unique on his reliance given the way he plays.

[Which Tyler]

I don't believe you.
On either of those points.

[Banquo]

Agreed. I just think Ford performs better knowing he has a top class ball carrier at 12.

Doesn't every fly half?
It's like saying that a THP scrummages better when they've a monster truck pushing them forwards, or a SH plays better when the forwards give him the ball on a plate instantly at every ruck.

The problem comes when a FH can't manage without said ball carrier on their shoulder, because it's not always an option.
And if a FH can still excel without one, then coaches have many more options for setting up the team. But every FH loves to have a get-out-of-jail-free ball carrier on his shoulder, and a quick agile guy an easy pass away, and a big guy cutting a line across at pace from the back, and....

I think the point is that more often than not, he hasnt had one, what with Faz and all. ...and its wasted Fords top usp. Tbh, just a runner who can get over the tackle line wuld have helped.

[Which Tyler]

Oh now I can absolutely agree that Ford paired with Farrell was never as good as Ford without Farrell.
But that's because of Farrell's limitations (and influence), not Ford's

[Banquo]

Oh now I can absolutely agree that Ford paired with Farrell was never as good as Ford without Farrell.
But that's because of Farrell's limitations (and influence), not Ford's

i didnt remotely suggest that Ford was the limiting factor.

[Galfon]

Apart from his impeccable FH play, when JG went off and Itoje took over as skip, Ford seemed to be calling the shots more than ever - not sure if this is the plan or if he was just stepping up..

And why was Penaud wearing what appeared to be a chef's apron over Daly's match shirt in the post-match revellries around the pitch ?

[Banquo]

I don't believe you.
On either of those points.

Its certainly seems that some 10's like a second distributorat 12, and that Fords proximity to tackle line play suits putting a tackle line breaker alongside him.

[Beasties]

I’ve only just watched the game, but wow have we come a long way in the last two weeks. I’ve never been a fan of Earl, disliked him even, but I had to adjust my opinion during the WC. He’s been sensational for us in the 6N, fair play lad. Tommy F just class all day long. Mitchell has been mainly excellent which has meant we can actually try some backs moves now we don’t have the anchor. More of this please Suddenly Bewitched.

[Mellsblue]

I don't believe you.
On either of those points.

Its certainly seems that some 10's like a second distributorat 12, and that Fords proximity to tackle line play suits putting a tackle line breaker alongside him.

Agreed agreed agreed.
Other than your spelling of distributor, unless you were writing en fancais…

[Banquo]

stats interesting....missed tackles a bit shocking - mind half seemed to be on one crazy Penaud run. We only had 41% possession, yet still kicked 50% more than last week....34..but it helped get parity ish in territory. 10 pens somewhat up as well. Showed great tenacity in the face of some bad breaks.

[Banquo]

I don't believe you.
On either of those points.

Its certainly seems that some 10's like a second distributorat 12, and that Fords proximity to tackle line play suits putting a tackle line breaker alongside him.

Agreed agreed agreed.
Other than your spelling of distributor, unless you were writing en fancais…

i meely meged two wods

[Oakboy]

I’ve only just watched the game, but wow have we come a long way in the last two weeks. I’ve never been a fan of Earl, disliked him even, but I had to adjust my opinion during the WC. He’s been sensational for us in the 6N, fair play lad. Tommy F just class all day long. Mitchell has been mainly excellent which has meant we can actually try some backs moves now we don’t have the anchor. More of this please Suddenly Bewitched.

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10. Tuilagi in the 23 was a joke. Itoje must start the next match as captain.

[Beasties]

I’ve only just watched the game, but wow have we come a long way in the last two weeks. I’ve never been a fan of Earl, disliked him even, but I had to adjust my opinion during the WC. He’s been sensational for us in the 6N, fair play lad. Tommy F just class all day long. Mitchell has been mainly excellent which has meant we can actually try some backs moves now we don’t have the anchor. More of this please Suddenly Bewitched.

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10. Tuilagi in the 23 was a joke. Itoje must start the next match as captain.

There’s a chance you’ve misunderstood my point.

[Banquo]

I’ve only just watched the game, but wow have we come a long way in the last two weeks. I’ve never been a fan of Earl, disliked him even, but I had to adjust my opinion during the WC. He’s been sensational for us in the 6N, fair play lad. Tommy F just class all day long. Mitchell has been mainly excellent which has meant we can actually try some backs moves now we don’t have the anchor. More of this please Suddenly Bewitched.

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10. Tuilagi in the 23 was a joke. Itoje must start the next match as captain.

suggest you watch again

[Puja]

I’ve only just watched the game, but wow have we come a long way in the last two weeks. I’ve never been a fan of Earl, disliked him even, but I had to adjust my opinion during the WC. He’s been sensational for us in the 6N, fair play lad. Tommy F just class all day long. Mitchell has been mainly excellent which has meant we can actually try some backs moves now we don’t have the anchor. More of this please Suddenly Bewitched.

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10.

That is a wild take. I can absolutely understand preferring Smith to Ford on general principles, but what about Ford's performance today did you think cost us the game?!?

Puja

[Oakboy]

I’ve only just watched the game, but wow have we come a long way in the last two weeks. I’ve never been a fan of Earl, disliked him even, but I had to adjust my opinion during the WC. He’s been sensational for us in the 6N, fair play lad. Tommy F just class all day long. Mitchell has been mainly excellent which has meant we can actually try some backs moves now we don’t have the anchor. More of this please Suddenly Bewitched.

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10.

That is a wild take. I can absolutely understand preferring Smith to Ford on general principles, but what about Ford's performance today did you think cost us the game?!?

Puja

Just the time after time when he kicked possession away. Yes, he has wondertul hands and showed that on several occasions so why does he not stick to doing that? I think we left points on the pitch because of his choices in what was a winnable game. That was not a fantastic French team.

[fivepointer]

I woudnt blame Ford for the loss.

We gave up too many soft penalties, made a hash of 2 line outs and missed too many tackles. I think overall we played reasonably well, though not at the same level with the same accuracy we showed against Ireland. Just too many small things went wrong and not enough big plays to turn the momentum.

On the plus side we scored 4 good tries. Showed tremendous resilience in coming from behind twice and stayed in the fight for the full 80.

We have improved markedly from the opening rounds. To finish beating Ireland and losing to a last minute penalty in France is a clear sign of the team settling down. Credit to the coaches for that.

[Banquo]

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10.

That is a wild take. I can absolutely understand preferring Smith to Ford on general principles, but what about Ford's performance today did you think cost us the game?!?

Puja

Just the time after time when he kicked possession away. Yes, he has wondertul hands and showed that on several occasions so why does he not stick to doing that? I think we left points on the pitch because of his choices in what was a winnable game. That was not a fantastic French team.

We had absolutely eff all ball second half, and most of it was in our third of the pitch; frankly, it was some good kicking and back field coverage that kept us in the game, slowing it down. Playing a looser game from the back would have seen us shredded. esp given our defensive approach when the game gets stretched (we may want to revisit that a bit when structure breaks down).

[Stom]

This I agree with. I don't understand the Ford adulation. I thought we lost the match because Marcus was not at 10.

That is a wild take. I can absolutely understand preferring Smith to Ford on general principles, but what about Ford's performance today did you think cost us the game?!?

Puja

Just the time after time when he kicked possession away. Yes, he has wondertul hands and showed that on several occasions so why does he not stick to doing that? I think we left points on the pitch because of his choices in what was a winnable game. That was not a fantastic French team.

Ford executed the game plan. And kicking for territory was seen very much as the way for us to get into the game. And to a large extent it worked. There's a huge difference between liking a system and acknowledging that it works. And this...well it worked. We lost because of stupid mistakes and execution errors, not anything major to do with the game plan and any individual.

Which is a MASSIVE step forward. There wasn't a single player you could point at and say: he was crap.

[Scrumhead]

Totally agree. The improvement from the side we saw in the first couple of rounds to the last couple is very encouraging.

It’s annoying we lost last night, but I can totally live with it given the overall progress made.

Let’s hope we see similar in NZ.