Owen Farrell

[Skalyba]

After a series of close loses and a misfiring centre partnership, how much do we think England are missing Owen Farrell?

I say that partly tongue in cheek but it did cross my mind that his leadership and drive were often said to be what sets him apart from other players, do we think his bloody mindedness would have helped drag England over the line in some or all of those defeats. If the answer is yes, then where do we pull that from in the coming games...

[Mikey Brown]

It's always seemed like a pretty unpredictable trade-off between his impact as a player (or the comprimises made to the team selection to accomodate them) and his (pretty much unanimously praised) impact as a motivator. So who knows, basically.

Our starting centres have managed to fly out of the line perfectly well on their own though, so I don't know if he was specifically missed there.

I've said for ages I think he's actually a great bench option for England. He can play what the coach calls for in the heat of the game, rather than sticking to whatever pre-determined plan might not be working. He's not most people's idea of an 'impact player' (for some reason these must all be the 'fast & loose' type) but his authority, relative versatility and physicality are things that can change a game. You saw the whole team lift when he came on in that horrible France game.

Ford should offer the experience and ability to close out a game but his lack of versatility and physicality have made it feel like a wasted bench spot at times.

It's all moot though. I think he's done and frankly I don't blame him. I definitely have criticisms of him as a player but it's not his fault how ridiculous the media/fandom can be. He took a lot of shit for a long time. Obviously maximum effort should be an expectation rather than a USP, but he still stood out in this regard.

Not sure anyone is really putting their hand up to fulfil any of those roles from this current squad, though Fin Smith looks like the calm head (that people claim Farrel to be) at 10 for the future.

[Oakboy]

Maybe Farrell provided some of what a HC couldn't. One factor in Jones's early successes was sticking with a good captain, Hartley, despite punditry insisting that George was a better hooker. Was Farrell a similar influence? Or, was him blocking the 12 shirt a factor in our having failed to develop a quality centre partnership. I tend to the latter, linked with giving Tuilagi far too many chances despite being an injury liability.

As well as Farrell, in the current squad - Ford, Cole, George, Slade, Daly, Ewels - pick the right time to simply move on. Every player beyond setting the world alight, no matter how ('can do a decent job') useful IS denying a new intro the chance to get into international mode.

Further than that, a coach's hardest task, IMO, is dumping a good player for a better one. That applies to our back row now, for example.

There is no doubt that Farrell was influential but there was a cost. At 12 he hampered the 10 from running the game. At 10 he was a better player but rarely our best in the shirt. I think the team's ceiling is higher without Farrell but whether he would improve the team under this coaching set-up is another matter. He just might straighten muddled thinking. I hate having that thought but that's how bad the management looks.

[Captainhaircut]

Just double checked and we were still shit when Farrell was there so confident when I say he would have had zero impact.

[Banquo]

Just double checked and we were still shit when Farrell was there so confident when I say he would have had zero impact.

[fivepointer]

Its the intangibles isnt it? as a player I dont think we've missed him for a moment. But there is little doubt that he is a model pro and someone who does set standards and drives the team.
Players like that can be highly valuable.