England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45

[Oakboy]

We really, really need to win this weekend for the sake of the collective sanity of everyone on this board.

Agreed but . . . . if the head rules, maybe you'll be posting the same next week. The heart though - what a joy it would be to have won at last. Everything non-arthritic is crossed.

[FKAS]

Pretty much the team rumoured. Borthwick sets us up to counter attack from the backfield through Marcus Smith.

Good to see the Prem form players in their positions get a start at 10 and 8.

Slightly concerned Daly is in there, his positional versatility is very useful but not sure he's going to be what we need at any point. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Oakboy]

Pretty much the team rumoured. Borthwick sets us up to counter attack from the backfield through Marcus Smith.

Good to see the Prem form players in their positions get a start at 10 and 8.

Slightly concerned Daly is in there, his positional versatility is very useful but not sure he's going to be what we need at any point. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Theoretically, Daly covers OC and all back three positions. He is useful with 6:2.

[Oakboy]

I see George as a starter. He's not going to provide much of a boost coming on at 60.

[Captainhaircut]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

[fivepointer]

B Curry is unlucky.

Very pleased to see Willis starting and Fin given a go at 10. No fan of the 6:2 split and Daly is there solely down to his positional versatility.

[Scrumhead]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

[fivepointer]

Dan would offer more impact from the bench. Possibly Rodd and AOF would too. Think the back 5 reserves are fine but going down the 6:2 route meant we had to pick someone who could cover multiple positions. Hence Daly.

[FKAS]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

As recently as last season. Four games in a row for Sarries at one point. At the world cup Vs Chile as well.

He's well past his best but he remains a good utility option.

[p/d]

I see George as a starter. He's not going to provide much of a boost coming on at 60.

Watching our replacement front row come on last week was incredibly underwhelming. Not sure whether to laugh or cry when seeing Heyes.

At least George will bring a bit more grunt to it

[Oakboy]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

[Captainhaircut]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

Rodd’s jackal threat and carrying would be far more impactful than Baxter- as you say his form is better. Dan on the bench far more impactful than George with his carrying and athleticism. AOF possibly the same vs Heyes although I’d be cautious with AOF.

Agree on Randall re his natural game but it’ll take a long time before I forget that woeful pass to Ford for the NZ drop goal. I just don’t think he’s good at scrum half basics which gets found out at international level. I’d go Spencer, then Porter before him presuming JVP and quirke aren’t fit. A fit Quirke would 100% be my number 2 scrum half.

Chessum and CCS are fine although CCS looks more and more like a bit of a project we can’t afford at the moment.

[FKAS]

Dan would offer more impact from the bench. Possibly Rodd and AOF would too. Think the back 5 reserves are fine but going down the 6:2 route meant we had to pick someone who could cover multiple positions. Hence Daly.

Yeah cause this is the game to throw on our smallest possible front row. Rodd is 50/50 at scrum time, he's improved an awful lot but he's not going to be scaring the absolute monsters France have. Dan loses out to the more experienced guys, yeah I quite like him on the bench so would have quite liked him there but see where Simple Ballwin is going in wanting George's leadership in the second half and hopefully his quality lineout throwing. AOF has one cap and has been overplayed by Sale this season. The 6N is a good way for him to learn in camp and to push a rest on his body not force him to scrummage and tackle some of the biggest and best forwards the NH has to offer. He's giving away two stone to our other tightheads who are smaller than the French monsters.

[Oakboy]

I see George as a starter. He's not going to provide much of a boost coming on at 60.

Watching our replacement front row come on last week was incredibly underwhelming. Not sure whether to laugh or cry when seeing Heyes.

At least George will bring a bit more grunt to it

More grunt than LCD? Not sure about that. Better line-out throw but even that is weird if Chessum and CCS are on by the time George appears - he'd be needed more with starting line-out options, I'd have thought. I'd have preferredveither of the other two hookers for impact.

[p/d]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not joking

[FKAS]

The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.

The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

Sadly Quirke is never fit for long enough to get selected. Shame he'd have at least 20 caps by now if he'd just stop breaking.

Issue for Randall is that his natural game is picking and going from dominant carries before the defence has had time to reset. International defences are a) generally to well organised for that and b) England don't make enough dominant carries. Leaves us with a 9 who's passing and kicking are well below international standard.

[Oakboy]

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not joking

You'd want him tackling Dupont?

[FKAS]

We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.

Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.

I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not joking

I remember that being a running thing 5 or so years back. "Best scrum half England never had" etc.

He played scrum half for 10 mins when Wigglesworth was sin binned Vs Saints in Tigers title winning season . He was sensational. Mind you he was in imperious form at the time. Same game where he caught the long goal line drop out and calmly slotted the drop goal.

Shame he's so often broken and Sale don't look after him these days.

[FKAS]

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not joking

You'd want him tackling Dupont?

You need more than one man tackling Dupont to make it stick...

[p/d]

I see George as a starter. He's not going to provide much of a boost coming on at 60.

Watching our replacement front row come on last week was incredibly underwhelming. Not sure whether to laugh or cry when seeing Heyes.

At least George will bring a bit more grunt to it

More grunt than LCD? Not sure about that. Better line-out throw but even that is weird if Chessum and CCS are on by the time George appears - he'd be needed more with starting line-out options, I'd have thought. I'd have preferredveither of the other two hookers for impact.

More grunt to a replacement front row, not over LCD

[p/d]

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not joking

I remember that being a running thing 5 or so years back. "Best scrum half England never had" etc.

He played scrum half for 10 mins when Wigglesworth was sin binned Vs Saints in Tigers title winning season . He was sensational. Mind you he was in imperious form at the time. Same game where he caught the long goal line drop out and calmly slotted the drop goal.

Shame he's so often broken and Sale don't look after him these days.

Do think he could have been!

I find all our current crop of 9’s a bit meh. But we have to do with what we got

[Banquo]

Horses for courses or lipstick on a pig.....we shall see.

[p/d]

Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.

I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not joking

You'd want him tackling Dupont?

He won’t have to. They will sub him off once they are 36 plus points to the good.

[Which Tyler]

Do think he could have been!

I find all our current crop of 9’s a bit meh. But we have to do with what we got

I've long wished that English coaches could do the whole SH/FH thing the French have down pat, and the Saffers occasionally throw up. So many transferable skills.
Lamb, Ford, Marcus - all would have made brilliant SH/FH options - had they trained it from young enough.

Instead, our age-grade coaches seem to use SH for "not fast enough for wing, not calm enough for FH, not strong enough for centre - guess you're a SH then!"

[p/d]

Do think he could have been!

I find all our current crop of 9’s a bit meh. But we have to do with what we got

I've long wished that English coaches could do the whole SH/FH thing the French have down pat, and the Saffers occasionally throw up. So many transferable skills.
Lamb, Ford, Marcus - all would have made brilliant SH/FH options - had they trained it from young enough.

Instead, our age-grade coaches seem to use SH for "not fast enough for wing, not calm enough for FH, not strong enough for centre - guess you're a SH then!"

Absolutely!!!

Though I do recall Youngs getting a go at wing