England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45

[jngf]

Was he

Yeah, I thought the same.

Can’t recall seeing CCS flowing locks

Stephen Jones watching in a parallel universe

[jngf]

We all know Slade is nearing the end of his international stint. It's simple: find a better 12 or leave him in. I've not been a fan of Lawrence but he has had two good 6N games. Fair enough. Leave him at 13 - for now. That might be unfortunate for other OC candidates but other than going 'all-Saints' with Dingwall/Freeman, what is a realistic alternative for the next three matches?

I agree with others that SB managed the bench well on the day. It was a relief to see him not go 'pre-conceived'. Of course, CCS and Randall having been superfluous leaves some likelihood of neither being in the next 23 and of a 5:3.

No realistic alternatives really at centre right now it feels. Maybe give Dingwall the Italy game, but I’d just wait until the summer to think about the centres much more. As long as Lawrence stops kicking it.

It’s promising that Borthwick actually stuck with his gut on whether certain subs needed to be used, or were a risk in such a tight game. That often seems to be the way once you get to knockout rugby, and this had a similar feel in how tight it was (if not the manner the teams were playing).

Feels harsh on Randall to be dropped now, but either he views this as a horses for courses thing and no big deal, or it’s made him realise he doesn’t actually trust Randall.

CCS seems to have been diminished to the same inconsistent, penalty magnet he was 2/3 years ago, as if all these massive moments for England in the last season just didn’t happen. I agree he’s got a lot to work on, but he’s 21, still a real weapon and I hope he is managed well.

I was trying to think who I’d actually want on the bench in a 5:3 but I’m note sure there’s another back that needs including ahead of a CCS/Burry combo in a 6:2. Isn’t it amazing that having a balanced starting backrow actually leaves you with room to either up the pace or up the ballast?

Agreed on CCS, to me he has a lot to offer,

Develop him into backup 8 to T Willis ?

[Which Tyler]

Jamie George highlights. Great stuff.

Any way of making the link visible / useable?

ETA: Okay, I see the text for the link when quoting, but the board renders it useless - but allows it as a hyperlink
Here

[FKAS]

Jamie George highlights. Great stuff.

Any way of making the link visible / useable?

ETA: Okay, I see the text for the link when quoting, but the board renders it useless - but allows it as a hyperlink
Here

Someone has helpfully summarised it on that Reddit page.

"3 physical clear outs (5 total ruck involvements)

3 touches in open play (+1 at back of maul)

1 clean line break

1 dominant scrum on opposition put in

1 scrum pen on own put in

1st front row at every kick chase

4/4 line-out throws"

[Puja]

Jamie George highlights. Great stuff.

Any way of making the link visible / useable?

ETA: Okay, I see the text for the link when quoting, but the board renders it useless - but allows it as a hyperlink
Here

Someone has helpfully summarised it on that Reddit page.

"3 physical clear outs (5 total ruck involvements)

3 touches in open play (+1 at back of maul)

1 clean line break

1 dominant scrum on opposition put in

1 scrum pen on own put in

1st front row at every kick chase

4/4 line-out throws"

I loved Dan's energy against Ireland - he carries with such dynamism and conviction that it belies his size and he's got excellent instincts for picking a gap and for making an offload. He really uses his pace by carrying full force.

However, it is hard to argue against that kind of substitute performance by George. Does he have the engine or the energy to bring that as a starter? I suspect possibly not anymore, but asking him to run hard for 20 minutes seems like it could be a very useful strategy for us going forwards. Might be an argument to keep LCD for Scotland and then put Dan in to start against Italy and Wales to see if he can cut it in the 2 shirt.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Yep. I think it's a good balance for the bench to have an experienced player in the front row to come on with the young props. I hate this idea that the whole bench should be made up of your fastest, most attack-minded players, when you really have no idea what the late game might be calling for.

See if Dan/LCD can make a mark with their physicality, but knowing if we have any set piece trouble we can bring George on. We'll need to move on eventually anyway, so let's see if either of those two can settle in to the 2 shirt. I can't really tell if LCD has lost the edge he used to have, or he's generally just an inconsistent presence.

Similar for Smith. Now we've given him this game at 15 we have to stick with it a little longer for it to be worth much. Reverting him to 10/bench and then repeating this next time Furbank (who also seems to have become world class during his injury) is injured won't teach us much at all.

[Banquo]

Any way of making the link visible / useable?

ETA: Okay, I see the text for the link when quoting, but the board renders it useless - but allows it as a hyperlink
Here

Someone has helpfully summarised it on that Reddit page.

"3 physical clear outs (5 total ruck involvements)

3 touches in open play (+1 at back of maul)

1 clean line break

1 dominant scrum on opposition put in

1 scrum pen on own put in

1st front row at every kick chase

4/4 line-out throws"

I loved Dan's energy against Ireland - he carries with such dynamism and conviction that it belies his size and he's got excellent instincts for picking a gap and for making an offload. He really uses his pace by carrying full force.

However, it is hard to argue against that kind of substitute performance by George. Does he have the engine or the energy to bring that as a starter? I suspect possibly not anymore, but asking him to run hard for 20 minutes seems like it could be a very useful strategy for us going forwards. Might be an argument to keep LCD for Scotland and then put Dan in to start against Italy and Wales to see if he can cut it in the 2 shirt.

Puja

Judging by the dents Scotland made in the Irish lineout, I'd think you'd want George to start, and work hard on changing up the lineout drills from the France game.

[Oakboy]

Someone has helpfully summarised it on that Reddit page.

"3 physical clear outs (5 total ruck involvements)

3 touches in open play (+1 at back of maul)

1 clean line break

1 dominant scrum on opposition put in

1 scrum pen on own put in

1st front row at every kick chase

4/4 line-out throws"

I loved Dan's energy against Ireland - he carries with such dynamism and conviction that it belies his size and he's got excellent instincts for picking a gap and for making an offload. He really uses his pace by carrying full force.

However, it is hard to argue against that kind of substitute performance by George. Does he have the engine or the energy to bring that as a starter? I suspect possibly not anymore, but asking him to run hard for 20 minutes seems like it could be a very useful strategy for us going forwards. Might be an argument to keep LCD for Scotland and then put Dan in to start against Italy and Wales to see if he can cut it in the 2 shirt.

Puja

Judging by the dents Scotland made in the Irish lineout, I'd think you'd want George to start, and work hard on changing up the lineout drills from the France game.

There is also a risk with having George on the bench should the starting hooker get injured early on. I know that applies to all front row bench men (and you don't pick your bench as injury cover etc. etc.) but as a general rule they all need to be good for 70 minutes, just in case, IMO.

[Banquo]

I loved Dan's energy against Ireland - he carries with such dynamism and conviction that it belies his size and he's got excellent instincts for picking a gap and for making an offload. He really uses his pace by carrying full force.

However, it is hard to argue against that kind of substitute performance by George. Does he have the engine or the energy to bring that as a starter? I suspect possibly not anymore, but asking him to run hard for 20 minutes seems like it could be a very useful strategy for us going forwards. Might be an argument to keep LCD for Scotland and then put Dan in to start against Italy and Wales to see if he can cut it in the 2 shirt.

Puja

Judging by the dents Scotland made in the Irish lineout, I'd think you'd want George to start, and work hard on changing up the lineout drills from the France game.

There is also a risk with having George on the bench should the starting hooker get injured early on. I know that applies to all front row bench men (and you don't pick your bench as injury cover etc. etc.) but as a general rule they all need to be good for 70 minutes, just in case, IMO.

agreed.

[Puja]

I loved Dan's energy against Ireland - he carries with such dynamism and conviction that it belies his size and he's got excellent instincts for picking a gap and for making an offload. He really uses his pace by carrying full force.

However, it is hard to argue against that kind of substitute performance by George. Does he have the engine or the energy to bring that as a starter? I suspect possibly not anymore, but asking him to run hard for 20 minutes seems like it could be a very useful strategy for us going forwards. Might be an argument to keep LCD for Scotland and then put Dan in to start against Italy and Wales to see if he can cut it in the 2 shirt.

Puja

Judging by the dents Scotland made in the Irish lineout, I'd think you'd want George to start, and work hard on changing up the lineout drills from the France game.

There is also a risk with having George on the bench should the starting hooker get injured early on. I know that applies to all front row bench men (and you don't pick your bench as injury cover etc. etc.) but as a general rule they all need to be good for 70 minutes, just in case, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very comfortable with George playing 70 - he's not decrepit! You just won't get quite the same level of energy across 70 minutes as you do across just sending him out for 20.

Frankly, I'd be more worried about Dan playing 70 minutes against Scotland right now.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Any way of making the link visible / useable?

ETA: Okay, I see the text for the link when quoting, but the board renders it useless - but allows it as a hyperlink
Here

Someone has helpfully summarised it on that Reddit page.

"3 physical clear outs (5 total ruck involvements)

3 touches in open play (+1 at back of maul)

1 clean line break

1 dominant scrum on opposition put in

1 scrum pen on own put in

1st front row at every kick chase

4/4 line-out throws"

I loved Dan's energy against Ireland - he carries with such dynamism and conviction that it belies his size and he's got excellent instincts for picking a gap and for making an offload. He really uses his pace by carrying full force.

However, it is hard to argue against that kind of substitute performance by George. Does he have the engine or the energy to bring that as a starter? I suspect possibly not anymore, but asking him to run hard for 20 minutes seems like it could be a very useful strategy for us going forwards. Might be an argument to keep LCD for Scotland and then put Dan in to start against Italy and Wales to see if he can cut it in the 2 shirt.

Puja

Yeah, I’d probably do this.

Massive shout to George for that cameo. What a great way to respond after losing the captaincy and being dropped. Chapeau.

It’ll be interesting to see Scotland’s injury situation off the back of yesterday’s game. Sounds like Russell will be OK (he passed the HIA but they chose to keep him off) but Graham will surely miss the game. I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere, but Zander Fagerson looked to twist his knee and would be a key loss if it’s serious.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh god I hadn't seen anything about that. If Fagerson is injured the game should just be called off.

[Puja]

There are two weeks between the games, mind. I would expect Russell and Fagerson back fine and wouldn't be surprised if Graham made it back in time as well.

Puja

[Oakboy]

There are two weeks between the games, mind. I would expect Russell and Fagerson back fine and wouldn't be surprised if Graham made it back in time as well.

Puja

I hate the gap weeks even more now.

[p/d]

There are two weeks between the games, mind. I would expect Russell and Fagerson back fine and wouldn't be surprised if Graham made it back in time as well.

Puja

I hate the gap weeks even more now.

Gap weeks are a bas**rd, but in this case if it means we face a fully fit Scotland then I can live with that.

[francoisfou]

It’s said that France wing, Damian Penaud, has been axed for next weekend’s 6N fixture away to Italy. Galthié wasn’t impressed with his lack of commitment and sharpness against England. It’s true that he had one or two costly lapses of concentration, which for a player of his calibre, may have been forgiven in the past providing he plays to his potential in the next game.
Gaël Fickou is rumoured to be a replacement in Rome.

[Puja]

It’s said that France wing, Damian Penaud, has been axed for next weekend’s 6N fixture away to Italy. Galthié wasn’t impressed with his lack of commitment and sharpness against England. It’s true that he had one or two costly lapses of concentration, which for a player of his calibre, may have been forgiven in the past providing he plays to his potential in the next game.
Gaël Fickou is rumoured to be a replacement in Rome.

Very harsh! He wasn't at his best, but he was coming back from a very long time out with injury, wasn't he? Seems hard to drop him for not being sharp when Galthie was the one to drop him straight back into the starting XV without any game time.

Puja

[francoisfou]

It’s said that France wing, Damian Penaud, has been axed for next weekend’s 6N fixture away to Italy. Galthié wasn’t impressed with his lack of commitment and sharpness against England. It’s true that he had one or two costly lapses of concentration, which for a player of his calibre, may have been forgiven in the past providing he plays to his potential in the next game.
Gaël Fickou is rumoured to be a replacement in Rome.

Very harsh! He wasn't at his best, but he was coming back from a very long time out with injury, wasn't he? Seems hard to drop him for not being sharp when Galthie was the one to drop him straight back into the starting XV without any game time.

Puja

Harsh, indeed.

[Puja]

Charlie Morgan's done a review of Slade's impacts against France (including a lot of things I've highlighted in the m-b-m, which makes me feel smart): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... borthwick/ or https://archive.ph/r6ZCQ

Pujs

[Captainhaircut]

Good line from Chris Foy in the Mail.

Win against France doesn’t count because this France side are “imposters”. Just checked and they’ve smashed Wales, destroyed Italy in Rome, beat Argies and Nz in the autumn and won a test away to Argies in the summer with their third team. Toulouse and Bordeaux murdering everyone in Europe. Imposters because they lost to England though. One thing Eddie Jones has right was that the media in England are the absolute worst.

“The uncomfortable truth is that this won’t be enough to beat the best. It wouldn’t beat Ireland, it wouldn’t beat France – the real version, not the recent imposters – and it might not even be enough to beat Wales in Cardiff on the last weekend of the championship, if they continue to revive under Matt Sherratt. “