The Great Big England A Thread

[Puja]

Might be interesting if Joey Carberry does come to the Prem next season and changes allegiance. Sale seem intent on flogging Ford, who lets face it isn't the best at resting anyway. Would suddenly provide a short term fourth choice option.

Hah - hadn't heard about that as an option. Would be fun, but not exactly a long-term option.

Puja

He's reviewing his options whilst waiting to hear from Bordeaux about a renewal. It's three years from his last cap in November and he's publicly stated he's become EQ.

Bristol and Tigers might be interested.

Definitely a short term option for England but if it buys time for someone else to come through then fine. Would only be fourth choice in any case.

He's got his wires crossed though when he says it'd help him get a Prem contract though - he doesn't qualify as being an EQP as far as the Prem club's payments from the RFU are concerned until/unless Borthwick decides he wants him and the paperwork goes through the IRB.

Puja

[Danno]

NZer via Ireland that can't buy a cap for three years? Nah thanks, I can hear the green boys sniggering already

[FKAS]

NZer via Ireland that can't buy a cap for three years? Nah thanks, I can hear the green boys sniggering already

They liked him enough to give him 38 caps before the last three years where's he been injured or in France.

Re Puja's point. Bristol/Tigers/Chiefs/whomever "Steve we are going to sign a non-EQ flyhalf due to lack of options, we'll go with the one that can be EQ if you waive through his paperwork. Sound good?" Borthwick might never pick him but would prefer to have the option than not. The clubs might kick up a fuss if they bring over potentially EQ options and the RFU decide to fuck about with being picky over which ones count towards their cap, doubly so if they have row back in future when an injury crisis occurs.

[p/d]

NZer via Ireland that can't buy a cap for three years? Nah thanks, I can hear the green boys sniggering already

Bob on Danno.

[Puja]

NZer via Ireland that can't buy a cap for three years? Nah thanks, I can hear the green boys sniggering already

They liked him enough to give him 38 caps before the last three years where's he been injured or in France.

Re Puja's point. Bristol/Tigers/Chiefs/whomever "Steve we are going to sign a non-EQ flyhalf due to lack of options, we'll go with the one that can be EQ if you waive through his paperwork. Sound good?" Borthwick might never pick him but would prefer to have the option than not. The clubs might kick up a fuss if they bring over potentially EQ options and the RFU decide to fuck about with being picky over which ones count towards their cap, doubly so if they have row back in future when an injury crisis occurs.

I see your point, but it's the way it's currently set up. Bristol aren't getting paid for Marmion for example. I don't think anyone would do the paperwork just on spec either - costs money and time to do (as the IRB consider all applications to switch nationality individually) and it's non-reversible, so if Carberry came to England, did the IRB paperwork, and then went back to Ireland, he couldn't then return to being Irish qualified again.

NZer via Ireland that can't buy a cap for three years? Nah thanks, I can hear the green boys sniggering already

Bob on Danno.

If we were talking first choice, then yeah, but we're discussing him as a fourth choice who would be better than Bailey/CAtkinson. I don't think fans of an Irish setup that's capped Addison, Haley, Treadwell, and are currently sniffing around Kelly would have too much to snigger about vis-a-vis bolstering depth via poaching.

Puja

[p/d]

Couldn’t care less about the Irish set up. I care about who our fourth choice is. If the best we have is Bailey/Atkinson or a converted Steward then so be it.

[Oakboy]

Couldn’t care less about the Irish set up. I care about who our fourth choice is. If the best we have is Bailey/Atkinson or a converted Steward then so be it.

Judging by SB's selections our 4th choice is some combination of Slade and Furbank! Joking aside, it's a half-reasonable benchmark. For example, none of the three you mention are better than either, currently.

I'd also have a 50p bet with anyone that if both Smiths and Ford were injured the fellow starting at 10 would be Farrell. If the scenario was not considered 'exceptional' enough the rules would be re-written overnight. Call me a cynic or the blazers hypocritical - take your choice.

[p/d]

Couldn’t care less about the Irish set up. I care about who our fourth choice is. If the best we have is Bailey/Atkinson or a converted Steward then so be it.

Judging by SB's selections our 4th choice is some combination of Slade and Furbank! Joking aside, it's a half-reasonable benchmark. For example, none of the three you mention are better than either, currently.

I'd also have a 50p bet with anyone that if both Smiths and Ford were injured the fellow starting at 10 would be Farrell. If the scenario was not considered 'exceptional' enough the rules would be re-written overnight. Call me a cynic or the blazers hypocritical - take your choice.

As I said earlier, Simmonds

[Scrumhead]

I always liked Simmonds but a few things …

1) He’s highly unlikely to give up a good salary and a great life in the South of France for the promise of being England’s 4th choice 10.

2) If we really did need to invoke ‘exceptional circumstances’, we’d surely want to call upon someone experienced at test level who could slot in to the set-up quickly, not an uncapped player.

3) Simmonds’ game really dropped off when he became Chiefs’ skipper. It might not be directly relevant but if he struggles with the weight of responsibility, it could suggest he lacks the right mentality to be a test 10 in an emergency scenario.

Obviously we’re talking completely hypothetical scenarios here, but in this situation, I’d probably look at Lozowski at 10. I know he hasn’t done it much recently but at least he spent half his career there.

[FKAS]

I always liked Simmonds but a few things …

1) He’s highly unlikely to give up a good salary and a great life in the South of France for the promise of being England’s 4th choice 10.

2) If we really did need to invoke ‘exceptional circumstances’, we’d surely want to call upon someone experienced at test level who could slot in to the set-up quickly, not an uncapped player.

3) Simmonds’ game really dropped off when he became Chiefs’ skipper. It might not be directly relevant but if he struggles with the weight of responsibility, it could suggest he lacks the right mentality to be a test 10 in an emergency scenario.

Obviously we’re talking completely hypothetical scenarios here, but in this situation, I’d probably look at Lozowski at 10. I know he hasn’t done it much recently but at least he spent half his career there.

Wasn't he the youngest captain to win a Champions Cup, getting a man of the match award for the final? I thought it was after that win things started to drift a bit, probably as most of his teammates he'd grown up with were all looking at moving away as well. He seemed to fall out with Baxter as well, there's no way Harvey Skinner was ever playing better.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I thought Simmonds as captain at 10 was when Exeter were at their peak? Not that I'm attributing that to his captaincy specifically.

Why are we actually discussing this though? In case both Smiths somehow go with the Lions and both Ford/Furbank are injured? Parachuting Farrell back in just sounds like a bad idea in general.

I do wonder if George Ford is sick of these Lions summer tours to Argentina where he temporarily gets the reins.

[Banquo]

I always liked Simmonds but a few things …

1) He’s highly unlikely to give up a good salary and a great life in the South of France for the promise of being England’s 4th choice 10.

2) If we really did need to invoke ‘exceptional circumstances’, we’d surely want to call upon someone experienced at test level who could slot in to the set-up quickly, not an uncapped player.

3) Simmonds’ game really dropped off when he became Chiefs’ skipper. It might not be directly relevant but if he struggles with the weight of responsibility, it could suggest he lacks the right mentality to be a test 10 in an emergency scenario.

Obviously we’re talking completely hypothetical scenarios here, but in this situation, I’d probably look at Lozowski at 10. I know he hasn’t done it much recently but at least he spent half his career there.

Wasn't he the youngest captain to win a Champions Cup, getting a man of the match award for the final? I thought it was after that win things started to drift a bit, probably as most of his teammates he'd grown up with were all looking at moving away as well. He seemed to fall out with Baxter as well, there's no way Harvey Skinner was ever playing better.

Yep. Underrated player imo tho his goal kicking went from near 100% to off a cliff when Exeter went into decline… chicken meet egg I guess

[p/d]

Why are we actually discussing this though? In case both Smiths somehow go with the Lions and both Ford/Furbank are injured? Parachuting Farrell back in just sounds like a bad idea in general.

I think it started from Danno’s eagerness to get Carbery qualified asap.

[Danno]

All I said was, ALL I said, was

[Puja]

Why are we actually discussing this though? In case both Smiths somehow go with the Lions and both Ford/Furbank are injured? Parachuting Farrell back in just sounds like a bad idea in general.

I think it started from Danno’s eagerness to get Carbery qualified asap.

I heard Danno was so keen that they're talking about invoking the exceptional circumstances so we can pick Carbery without him leaving France.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Don’t make me ask you to tap the sign.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Teams up:

England Men’s A team to face Ireland A
15 Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks, West Park Leeds RUFC)
14 Tobias Elliott (Saracens, Harrow Rugby Club)
13 Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby, Chippenham RFC)
12 Will Butt (Bath Rugby, Wimborne RFC)
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins (Leicester Tigers, Newbury RFC, 2 caps)
10 Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby, Oxford RFC)
9 Jack van Poortvliet (c) (Leicester Tigers, North Walsham RFC, 16 caps)
1 Phil Brantingham (Saracens, Northern FC)
2 Curtis Langdon (vc) (Northampton Saints, Hornets Rugby Club, 2 caps)
3 George Kloska (Bristol Bears, St. Brendan’s RFC)
4 Hugh Tizard (Saracens, Guildfordians RFC)
5 Tom Lockett (Northampton Saints, Northampton Saints)
6 Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, Bromyard Rugby Club, 1 cap)
7 Jack Kenningham (Harlequins, Richmond RFC)
8 Alfie Barbeary (Bath Rugby, Banbury RUFC)

Replacements
16 Gabriel Oghre (Bristol Bears, Walcot RFC)
17 Tarek Haffar (Northampton Saints, Grasshoppers RFC)
18 Luke Green (Northampton Saints, Richmond RFC)
19 Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs, Taunton Rugby Football Club)
20 Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs, Devonport Services RFC)
21 Will Porter (Harlequins, Amersham and Chiltern RFC)
22 Jamie Shillcock (Leicester Tigers, Southam RUFC)
23 George Hendy (Northampton Saints, Shipston-on-Stour RFC)

[Epaminondas Pules]

Guessing Pollock is match day reserve for the firsts and that Curry is facing a late fitness test

Though actually nobody has dropped down to the A squad.

[Banquo]

Guessing Pollock is match day reserve for the firsts and that Curry is facing a late fitness test

Though actually nobody has dropped down to the A squad.

no rugby for Beard or Dingwall in months tho

[Oakboy]

Is the game televised?

[Oakboy]

Is the game televised?

1pm on Sunday - RugbyPass. Who the hell are they? Free?

[p/d]

Guessing Pollock is match day reserve for the firsts and that Curry is facing a late fitness test

Though actually nobody has dropped down to the A squad.

no rugby for Beard or Dingwall in months tho

Keeping them for Wales

[Mikey Brown]

Guessing Pollock is match day reserve for the firsts and that Curry is facing a late fitness test

Though actually nobody has dropped down to the A squad.

Tom or Ben? Or is this a complete guess?

Feels odd having JVP in there with 16 senior caps already, but I guess some game time for him would be handy. I'd like to think he can push ahead of Randall again. Equally I'd like Porter instead as well.

Cramming Ojomoh in at 13 seems a bit pointless, but I guess that is the endless English struggle. Having more 12s than we know what to do with.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Guessing Pollock is match day reserve for the firsts and that Curry is facing a late fitness test

Though actually nobody has dropped down to the A squad.

Tom or Ben? Or is this a complete guess?

Feels odd having JVP in there with 16 senior caps already, but I guess some game time for him would be handy. I'd like to think he can push ahead of Randall again. Equally I'd like Porter instead as well.

Cramming Ojomoh in at 13 seems a bit pointless, but I guess that is the endless English struggle. Having more 12s than we know what to do with.

Martin and Tom Curry were carrying knocks after France.

And I don't get the centre choices.

Really pleased Brantingham and Haffar will be getting run outs.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Guessing Pollock is match day reserve for the firsts and that Curry is facing a late fitness test

Though actually nobody has dropped down to the A squad.

no rugby for Beard or Dingwall in months tho

or AOF and Rodd, or Ford