Development XV - December 2024

[Cameo]

There has been a lot of talk recently about our issues bringing players through, and it has been all change with Nucifora, the end of S6, and some more A games and development games. I thought it would be good to track a 15 of players who, all going well, we hope will come through to real prominence in the next year or two.

It's very unscientific and there are nonreal criteria (either for current status or what I mean by real prominence), but I would of thought we should be hoping for many of the below being proper contenders for Scotland squads or teams in two years' time. If they are not, I hope it was because of bad luck or underwhelming performances rather than they've barely played a club game.

Forwards - not really worried about these apart from the front row - largely because Glasgow have done such a good job bringing forwards through.

1. Bad start - a position of okay strength for us but they are all getting on a bit - maybe Mikey Jones of Edinburgh
2. Gregor Hiddlestone - been getting lots of chances, amd taking them, something has gone wrong if he hasn't fully broken through in two years. If we were being more ambitious, could say Harri Morris or the other Blyth-Lafferty
3. Ollie Blyth-Lafferty - he'll still be very young for a prop but hopefully won't just be drifting along with the odd A game. Could really do with Murphy Walker coming through too.
4. Jare Oguntibeju - massive few weeks for him. I was a bit sceptical after the Sale game as thought he died a bitnin contact but his performance against Toulon was top draw for someone with so little rugby.
5. Alex Samuel - not counting Williamson as he is probably already first choice for Glasgow and not counting Henderson as he is in England, though really hope he gets an injury free spell.
6. Liam McConnel - Big hopes for him and already got an Edinburgh cap, but we know how hard it is for players to break through in the back row there. Euan Ferrie is the other one but a bit further along and I'm not worried about him getting chances.
7. Freddy Douglas - not forgotten Connor Boyle, but not immune to a bit of hype. Can be phased in slowly, but let's not waste years like we did with Darge and have done with Boyle.
8. Tom Currie - Not seen him play but seems to be rated. Anyone else at 8 (Mann has looked good but a bit older, and Muncaster a bit too established for this list though it has taken a long while).

Backs - Not so many obvious names here.

9. Ashfar - Doing very well. My worry, as always, is the backlog of 9s at Glasgow. I feel Dobie could have had two or three years of regular starts under his belt by now. Other one is McAlpine but the talk of an SA 9 coming to Edinburgh is not good for him.
10. Richie Simpson - big year for him once Jordan leaves. Always highly thought of but not highly enough to get any game time. Hopefully they find an easier game or two to give him a chance this year.
11. Jacob Henry - I think he's on loan this year. Others include Sweeney and Amena Caqusau. You'd have thought wing would be a relatively easy position to give youth a chance (half of New Zealand's wingers peak in their mid twenties), but we seem to struggle to find anyone worth giving minutes to and prefer playing people out of position.
12. Duncan Munn - perennially promising - never playing.
13. Kerr Yule - think he is probably more of a 12 but another who seems to have been getting mentions for a long time without appearing much. Think Ben Salmon is a 13 but don't know anything about him.
14. See 11
15. Paterson - I know he has a few caps so doesn't really belomg here but could either have faded out the picture in a few years or be a solid international. Can't think of any real youngsters.

A bit thin on the ground in some positions in the backs. I know I'll have missed some and we don't need a top international in every position in each year group, but a bit worrying how long it is since a young wing came through for example.

Any glaring omissions? Any thoughts on what it'll take for some of those backs (or props) to break through?

[Mikey Brown]

Thanks for doing this. I can't contribute much (other than the endless concerns about front row depth) but will be interested to see what other names pop up.

It's great that some of the Glasgow guys in the back 5 of the scrum are starting to stand up at this level. It felt like Sykes and Hodgson were the next hopes at lock for a while and neither now seem to look like internationals in the making.

[septic 9]

Thanks for doing this. I can't contribute much (other than the endless concerns about front row depth) but will be interested to see what other names pop up.

It's great that some of the Glasgow guys in the back 5 of the scrum are starting to stand up at this level. It felt like Sykes and Hodgson were the next hopes at lock for a while and neither now seem to look like internationals in the making.

Hodgson did improve but TBH was never going to be more than a pro team squad player. Sykes has been the big disappointment. Taken from Glasgow academy to Edinburgh to play 6 according to Cockerill!
Before he moved he looked like the big hard B we always want at lock, and a very good player with it. And ready to move up. A few years later he has basically not moved on. Not seen this week's massacre of Bayonne but hear he really stepped up. Needs to do that consistently against better sides
And not sure if Gregor Brown isn't on the initial list because he is "established", but he is also a genuine back row option

[septic 9]

15. Paterson - I know he has a few caps so doesn't really belomg here but could either have faded out the picture in a few years or be a solid international. Can't think of any real youngsters.

Back 3 - Fergus Watson at Glasgow worth watching. Looked really exciting runner at U20. Big lad as well, still 19.

[septic 9]

10. Richie Simpson - big year for him once Jordan leaves. Always highly thought of but not highly enough to get any game time. Hopefully they find an easier game or two to give him a chance this year.

agree on Simpson

Mathew Unwin also in Warriors academy also looks a talent (again still just 19) while Isaac Coates has been above both for U20 at times (although his eligibility may not stretch to senior Scotland). I'm backing one of the Warriors lads to break through

[switchskier]

Sweeney is a fullback isn't he? Know he's had a tough time with injuries and you play someone when they're ready, not when they hit a certain age, but he needs games. Heard promising things though.

Who's the young wing at Ealing? Looked good for the U20's though possibly a yard short of pace?

[septic 9]

Sweeney is a fullback isn't he? Know he's had a tough time with injuries and you play someone when they're ready, not when they hit a certain age, but he needs games. Heard promising things though.

Who's the young wing at Ealing? Looked good for the U20's though possibly a yard short of pace?

Geordie Gwynn

[Cameo]

Thanks for doing this. I can't contribute much (other than the endless concerns about front row depth) but will be interested to see what other names pop up.

It's great that some of the Glasgow guys in the back 5 of the scrum are starting to stand up at this level. It felt like Sykes and Hodgson were the next hopes at lock for a while and neither now seem to look like internationals in the making.

Hodgson did improve but TBH was never going to be more than a pro team squad player. Sykes has been the big disappointment. Taken from Glasgow academy to Edinburgh to play 6 according to Cockerill!
Before he moved he looked like the big hard B we always want at lock, and a very good player with it. And ready to move up. A few years later he has basically not moved on. Not seen this week's massacre of Bayonne but hear he really stepped up. Needs to do that consistently against better sides
And not sure if Gregor Brown isn't on the initial list because he is "established", but he is also a genuine back row option

Yeah, that's the only reason I didn't include Brown. With the exception of Douglas, I was trying to avoid capped players. I'm a bit fan of his though - hope he can stay fit.

Heard the same re Sykes.

A lot of people seem to be dismissing Hodgson completely (not accusing you). I've not seen anything to suggest he is going to be a top player, but we shouldn't dismiss the value of a bit of strength in depth in those attritional positions.

[Cameo]

There has been a lot of talk recently about our issues bringing players through, and it has been all change with Nucifora, the end of S6, and some more A games and development games. I thought it would be good to track a 15 of players who, all going well, we hope will come through to real prominence in the next year or two.

It's very unscientific and there are nonreal criteria (either for current status or what I mean by real prominence), but I would of thought we should be hoping for many of the below being proper contenders for Scotland squads or teams in two years' time. If they are not, I hope it was because of bad luck or underwhelming performances rather than they've barely played a club game.

Forwards - not really worried about these apart from the front row - largely because Glasgow have done such a good job bringing forwards through.

1. Bad start - a position of okay strength for us but they are all getting on a bit - maybe Mikey Jones of Edinburgh
2. Gregor Hiddlestone - been getting lots of chances, amd taking them, something has gone wrong if he hasn't fully broken through in two years. If we were being more ambitious, could say Harri Morris or the other Blyth-Lafferty
3. Ollie Blyth-Lafferty - he'll still be very young for a prop but hopefully won't just be drifting along with the odd A game. Could really do with Murphy Walker coming through too.
4. Jare Oguntibeju - massive few weeks for him. I was a bit sceptical after the Sale game as thought he died a bitnin contact but his performance against Toulon was top draw for someone with so little rugby.
5. Alex Samuel - not counting Williamson as he is probably already first choice for Glasgow and not counting Henderson as he is in England, though really hope he gets an injury free spell.
6. Liam McConnel - Big hopes for him and already got an Edinburgh cap, but we know how hard it is for players to break through in the back row there. Euan Ferrie is the other one but a bit further along and I'm not worried about him getting chances.
7. Freddy Douglas - not forgotten Connor Boyle, but not immune to a bit of hype. Can be phased in slowly, but let's not waste years like we did with Darge and have done with Boyle.
8. Tom Currie - Not seen him play but seems to be rated. Anyone else at 8 (Mann has looked good but a bit older, and Muncaster a bit too established for this list though it has taken a long while).

Backs - Not so many obvious names here.

9. Ashfar - Doing very well. My worry, as always, is the backlog of 9s at Glasgow. I feel Dobie could have had two or three years of regular starts under his belt by now. Other one is McAlpine but the talk of an SA 9 coming to Edinburgh is not good for him.
10. Richie Simpson - big year for him once Jordan leaves. Always highly thought of but not highly enough to get any game time. Hopefully they find an easier game or two to give him a chance this year.
11. Jacob Henry - I think he's on loan this year. Others include Sweeney and Amena Caqusau. You'd have thought wing would be a relatively easy position to give youth a chance (half of New Zealand's wingers peak in their mid twenties), but we seem to struggle to find anyone worth giving minutes to and prefer playing people out of position.
12. Duncan Munn - perennially promising - never playing.
13. Kerr Yule - think he is probably more of a 12 but another who seems to have been getting mentions for a long time without appearing much. Think Ben Salmon is a 13 but don't know anything about him.
14. See 11
15. Paterson - I know he has a few caps so doesn't really belomg here but could either have faded out the picture in a few years or be a solid international. Can't think of any real youngsters.

A bit thin on the ground in some positions in the backs. I know I'll have missed some and we don't need a top international in every position in each year group, but a bit worrying how long it is since a young wing came through for example.

Any glaring omissions? Any thoughts on what it'll take for some of those backs (or props) to break through?

A little update on the above and other names mentioned. A few have been injured and many have just been playing age grade but:

- Samuel and Oguntibeju have been getting games (one in Jare's case due to injury) and developing nicely. Would like to see them involved on a summer tour as a key position for us to improve in.

- Douglas got injured on his first start and is only back now, but McConnell has got a bit of time off the bench and Curry got his first start on the weekend. Edinburgh at least seem to be trying to bring them through.

- Ashfar has been getting minutes. Perennial issue at 9 though - to compete you need three good nines, but third choice is only good for your development for a year or two. Not worried but some decisions coming up.

- Simpson - got injured for Ayr, otherwise I would have hoped he might have got some time off the bench v Dragons.

- Munn - delighted he has got two starts and seemed to do solidly. They'll at least have some match evidence to decide if he can cut it. Hopefully a few more games while Sione is out.

In the back three, Fergus Watson looked good v Ireland in the u20s and Jack Brown has been decent at 15. No sign of pro exposure but ones to watch. Patterson seems to drift from issue to issue, but at least Ollie Smith is back playing well.

[Cameo]

I saw these numbers on the Glasgow forum in the context of playing time for youngsters:

Roberts - 11 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 1, Combined Academy 1, Scotland U20 6, Marr 1)
McKenna - 9 (Scotland U20 7, Hawks 2)
Banatvala - 1 (Combined Academy 1)
Smyth - 9 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 1, Emerging Scotland 1, Selkirk 5)
Shearer - 11 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 2, Combined Academy 1, Scotland U20 5, Ayr 1)
Norrie - 9 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 3, Hawks 2, Ampthill 2)
Burke - 2 (Hawks 2)
Oguntibeju - 8 (Warriors 5, Glasgow A 1, Combined Academy 1, Scotland A 1)
Halkon - 13 (Glasgow A 1, Edinburgh A 3, Combined Academy 1, Emerging Scotland 1, Scotland U20 6, Currie 1)
Morris - 1 (Hawks 1)
Purvis - 9 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh Accies 7)
McMichael - 4 (Scotland U20 1, Marr 3)
Duncan - 5 (Warriors 1, Glasgow A 2, Combined Academy 1, Emerging Scotland 1)
Jackson - 8 (Glasgow A 2, Hawks 6)
Urwin - 13 (Glasgow A 2, Combined Academy 1, Emerging Scotland 1, Scotland U20 6, Ayr 3)
Simpson - 9 (Glasgow A 2 Ayr 7)
Bryden - 6 (Marr 6)
Yule - 15 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 2, Combined Academy 1, Emerging Scotland 1, Scotland U20 9, Heriots 3)
Munn - 7 (Warriors 3, Glasgow A 2, Marr 2)
Ventisei - 7 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 1, Combined Academy 1, Scotland U20 3)
Salmon - 5 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 2, Emerging Scotland 1)
Johnston - 11 (Warriors 1, Glasgow A 2, Emerging Scotland 1, Currie 5, Ampthilll 2)
Cross - 8 (Glasgow A 2, Marr 4, Doncaster 2)
Caqusau - 9 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 1, Combined Academy 1, Emerging Scotland 1, Ayr 4)
Provan - 10 (Glasgow A 1, Scotland U20 1, Hawks 8)
Watson - 11 (Glasgow A 2, Edinburgh A 1, Combined Academy 1, Scotland U20 6, Edinburgh Accies 1)
* excludes a few university games for some

These are a bit inflated for some by u20 games whereas we would hope that they are getting good gametime before u20s involvement. It lines up with our u20s improving as tournaments go on.

There is also an issue with the gametime being for so many different teams. Sure, they'll benefit from being exposed to the physicality of men's/higher level rugby and there may be some benefit from being exposed to different coaches but for backs (and hookers and jumpers I would think) it must be important to learn how to fit into and develop structures and patterns. If half the games are couple of training sessions then go jobs, I imagine it being pretty frustrating.

[Big D]

I would sit Everitt down and sack him. But if I was feeling generous I would ask him what his plans are to get the young fresh talent at Edinburgh gametime, especially in the back row.

Arguably, Douglas should be the starting 7 next season.

[Cameo]

I actually think Douglas will be okay - he seems to be that highly rated. It's the ones just below the level where it is clear they'll make an immediate impact that can get lost (though Darge and Turner were both held back too long though it was clear how talented they were).

[septic 9]

some interesting stuff Cameo

a few thoughts

Jack Brown had a very good 6N, better than Watson who was also good - but much better last year! Both look to have good futures.

Your point about Darge and Turner is well made (altho I think there might have been a bit more to the Turner situation).
Darge and Boyle were excellent contemporaries for the Edin academy and Scot U20. Both looked a cut above but Darge IMG+HO always better, clearly better all round. Darge was moved to no8 to accommodate Boyle for U20 - bigger and carried way better. But even forgetting the plethora of international back rows edin had, those 2 could never both flourish at Edinburgh, especially with an up the jumper dinosaur like Cockerill in charge. (And the dinosaur picked the wrong one to keep)
The point of that ramble is that the SRU DoR should have been insisting (subject to the player's personal circumstances) to allocate one to Glasgow and one to Edin immediately post their 6N debuts
And they have not learned
I think missing in your list is Jamie Stewart. Along with OBL, two 18 yo tight heads of immense promise as seen in the U20s. Both are in the Edin academy.
The U20 loose heads were also very good 9McKenna and Shearer,) both in the Glasgow academy

[Cameo]

some interesting stuff Cameo

a few thoughts

Jack Brown had a very good 6N, better than Watson who was also good - but much better last year! Both look to have good futures.

Your point about Darge and Turner is well made (altho I think there might have been a bit more to the Turner situation).
Darge and Boyle were excellent contemporaries for the Edin academy and Scot U20. Both looked a cut above but Darge IMG+HO always better, clearly better all round. Darge was moved to no8 to accommodate Boyle for U20 - bigger and carried way better. But even forgetting the plethora of international back rows edin had, those 2 could never both flourish at Edinburgh, especially with an up the jumper dinosaur like Cockerill in charge. (And the dinosaur picked the wrong one to keep)
The point of that ramble is that the SRU DoR should have been insisting (subject to the player's personal circumstances) to allocate one to Glasgow and one to Edin immediately post their 6N debuts
And they have not learned
I think missing in your list is Jamie Stewart. Along with OBL, two 18 yo tight heads of immense promise as seen in the U20s. Both are in the Edin academy.
The U20 loose heads were also very good 9McKenna and Shearer,) both in the Glasgow academy

Yeah, Jamie Stewart has looked very good when he has come on (a bit odd how long they have kept OBL on the pitch).

So hard with only two clubs and don't want to make it too artificial when allocating players, but we can't afford these bottlenecks.

See Brown is on the bench for Edinburgh. Not sure how much x factor he has in attack, but at least has the skills to be a solid pro and can go from there. Hopefully over the next couple of years, each of the pro teams can move down to just one NSQ back three player (same probably should apply to other positions).

[Big D]

I actually think Douglas will be okay - he seems to be that highly rated. It's the ones just below the level where it is clear they'll make an immediate impact that can get lost (though Darge and Turner were both held back too long though it was clear how talented they were).

McConnell and Currie Jnr aren't that far off those ahead of them IMO. Especially with Ritchie and probably Watson leaving.