Snap General Election called

[Puja]

I am hoping that Reeves can think outside the box just a little now and contemplate relaxing the fiscal rules, ie to allow us to borrow more and not be hamstrung by the last cell in the OBR's spreadsheet.

Prioritising reduce the deficit when facing a recession or depression would be incredibly stupid.

There's a fairly decent argument that this should be treated as an extraordinary crisis or natural disaster, in the same way we did for coronavirus. Just chuck what spending is needed into stimulus to keep the economy going through it and worry about the debt later.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

North-East Somerset - all the best politicians...

Rees-Mogg outl and then... erm...

Labour MP Dan Norris arrested on suspicion of rape and child sex offences

Mr Norris, the MP for North East Somerset and Hanham, has been suspended by the Labour Party.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I am hoping that Reeves can think outside the box just a little now and contemplate relaxing the fiscal rules, ie to allow us to borrow more and not be hamstrung by the last cell in the OBR's spreadsheet.

Prioritising reduce the deficit when facing a recession or depression would be incredibly stupid.

There's a fairly decent argument that this should be treated as an extraordinary crisis or natural disaster, in the same way we did for coronavirus. Just chuck what spending is needed into stimulus to keep the economy going through it and worry about the debt later.

Puja

Exactly. It's madness to try to fine-tune current spending - scrabbling around to cut a few billion more here or there - so that after 4 years of OBR guesswork their spreadsheet shows the deficit being reduced. No one knows what's going to happen on Monday, let alone 2029. This is an emergency, the next 4 years will be a time of random US policy, all predictions will be off, we need the money now.

[Son of Mathonwy]

North-East Somerset - all the best politicians...

Rees-Mogg outl and then... erm...

Labour MP Dan Norris arrested on suspicion of rape and child sex offences

Mr Norris, the MP for North East Somerset and Hanham, has been suspended by the Labour Party.

Oh Christ, could Rees-Mogg come back??? Fuck, that's one of the few silver linings we have.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Ah, the inevitable Lord Gove. One of the leading architects of the shit we're in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -a-peerage

[paddy no 11]

He wrote an article advocating for a noble peace prize for the IDF,

[Son of Mathonwy]

Ministers privately briefing that the 2-cap limit is here to stay. In that case let me publicly brief that they will lose the next election.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... nefits-cap

Allegedly the cap is popular, because it's 'fair'. Sorry, Starmer, even if that's so*, this is where you show you are a leader, and lead the country - even the selfish cunts - to a better future.


* and I'm not convinced. Even if it is, it's not going to be a priority. No one's going to be rioting in the streets to keep the 2-child limit. It surely can't be that hard to make the case for lifting children out of poverty. There's even an economic case - in the short-term, stimulating the economy and in the long-term these children will contribute more to society and more than pay back any costs.

[Puja]

Ministers privately briefing that the 2-cap limit is here to stay. In that case let me publicly brief that they will lose the next election.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... nefits-cap

Allegedly the cap is popular, because it's 'fair'. Sorry, Starmer, even if that's so*, this is where you show you are a leader, and lead the country - even the selfish cunts - to a better future.


* and I'm not convinced. Even if it is, it's not going to be a priority. No one's going to be rioting in the streets to keep the 2-child limit. It surely can't be that hard to make the case for lifting children out of poverty. There's even an economic case - in the short-term, stimulating the economy and in the long-term these children will contribute more to society and more than pay back any costs.

"Popular with key voters" - Starmer continuing to prioritise chasing Reform and Tory voters and expecting that the left will fall into line no matter what he does. My brother in christ, you've got a majority of nearly 160 - there are no further right wing votes available for you to get, no matter how hard you chase.

When will he realise that his voters aren't fucking off to Reform because he's not right wing enough, but because they wanted change, he promised change, and now that he's not delivering change, they're going to someone else who promises change?

I am currently waiting Labour's inevitable imminent statement on LGBTQ rights and how they're very negotiable if Reform voters will just love him again.

Puja

[Puja]

I am currently waiting Labour's inevitable imminent statement on LGBTQ rights and how they're very negotiable if Reform voters will just love him again.

Well, on the bright side, at least I didn't have to wait that long. Less than 2 hours from gloomy prediction to a No 10 press briefing. Fantastic.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Ministers privately briefing that the 2-cap limit is here to stay. In that case let me publicly brief that they will lose the next election.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... nefits-cap

Allegedly the cap is popular, because it's 'fair'. Sorry, Starmer, even if that's so*, this is where you show you are a leader, and lead the country - even the selfish cunts - to a better future.


* and I'm not convinced. Even if it is, it's not going to be a priority. No one's going to be rioting in the streets to keep the 2-child limit. It surely can't be that hard to make the case for lifting children out of poverty. There's even an economic case - in the short-term, stimulating the economy and in the long-term these children will contribute more to society and more than pay back any costs.

"Popular with key voters" - Starmer continuing to prioritise chasing Reform and Tory voters and expecting that the left will fall into line no matter what he does. My brother in christ, you've got a majority of nearly 160 - there are no further right wing votes available for you to get, no matter how hard you chase.

When will he realise that his voters aren't fucking off to Reform because he's not right wing enough, but because they wanted change, he promised change, and now that he's not delivering change, they're going to someone else who promises change?

I am currently waiting Labour's inevitable imminent statement on LGBTQ rights and how they're very negotiable if Reform voters will just love him again.

Puja

Well, on LGBTQ they've stated that they welcome the Supreme Court's recent decision and that it brings clarity.

FFS Starmer, Reform voters aren't going to vote Labour. Give it up. If they want bigotry they'll go to team Bigot, no matter how appallingly you behave. Meantime your appalling policies are causing real harm. I don't expect you give a shit about that but they will also do harm to your electoral chances.

[Mikey Brown]

Puja, do you have any mod powers to stop me from opening this thread? It makes me want to blow my head off.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Jesus. Yvette Cooper. I realize that she isn't in the same league as the monstrous Patel and Braverman but dear god why does someone so right-wing join the Labour party?

League tables of the criminality of foreigners by nationality. Which universe exists where this isn't a massive win for the Tories and Reform UK? How can this not fuel prejudice? How about league tables for criminality by race? That's next surely.

Even if full context is provided, eg the numbers as a proportion of that group in the UK and the same figures for UK criminals, that context will be stripped from them again when the right-wing press regurgitates them on their front pages, or when Farage, Jenrick, Badenoch and Tice use them as ammunition. The publication of these numbers, every time, will be a gift to Farage et al, and a fucking milstone around the neck of the government. They are morally and politically clueless.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... alities-uk

[Banquo]

Jesus. Yvette Cooper. I realize that she isn't in the same league as the monstrous Patel and Braverman but dear god why does someone so right-wing join the Labour party?

League tables of the criminality of foreigners by nationality. Which universe exists where this isn't a massive win for the Tories and Reform UK? How can this not fuel prejudice? How about league tables for criminality by race? That's next surely.

Even if full context is provided, eg the numbers as a proportion of that group in the UK and the same figures for UK criminals, that context will be stripped from them again when the right-wing press regurgitates them on their front pages, or when Farage, Jenrick, Badenoch and Tice use them as ammunition. The publication of these numbers, every time, will be a gift to Farage et al, and a fucking milstone around the neck of the government. They are morally and politically clueless.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... alities-uk

It's utterly mad, I can't see any logic behind that at all.

[Puja]

Puja, do you have any mod powers to stop me from opening this thread? It makes me want to blow my head off.

If I did, I wouldn't use them. If I'm going to continually make myself suffer, I don't see why you shouldn't have to join me.

Jesus. Yvette Cooper. I realize that she isn't in the same league as the monstrous Patel and Braverman but dear god why does someone so right-wing join the Labour party?

League tables of the criminality of foreigners by nationality. Which universe exists where this isn't a massive win for the Tories and Reform UK? How can this not fuel prejudice? How about league tables for criminality by race? That's next surely.

Even if full context is provided, eg the numbers as a proportion of that group in the UK and the same figures for UK criminals, that context will be stripped from them again when the right-wing press regurgitates them on their front pages, or when Farage, Jenrick, Badenoch and Tice use them as ammunition. The publication of these numbers, every time, will be a gift to Farage et al, and a fucking milstone around the neck of the government. They are morally and politically clueless.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... alities-uk

Jesus wept.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Jesus. Yvette Cooper. I realize that she isn't in the same league as the monstrous Patel and Braverman but dear god why does someone so right-wing join the Labour party?

League tables of the criminality of foreigners by nationality. Which universe exists where this isn't a massive win for the Tories and Reform UK? How can this not fuel prejudice? How about league tables for criminality by race? That's next surely.

Even if full context is provided, eg the numbers as a proportion of that group in the UK and the same figures for UK criminals, that context will be stripped from them again when the right-wing press regurgitates them on their front pages, or when Farage, Jenrick, Badenoch and Tice use them as ammunition. The publication of these numbers, every time, will be a gift to Farage et al, and a fucking milstone around the neck of the government. They are morally and politically clueless.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... alities-uk

It's utterly mad, I can't see any logic behind that at all.

It’s an appalling idea.

First up, I don’t think most police officers record if an offender or victim is an immigrant or not, and then what their original country of origin was.

Secondly what will this show? It might demonstrate that immigrants cause less crime. Or it might show that one particular group is disproportionately offending. In which case the nutters will be out to play.

[Puja]

Jesus. Yvette Cooper. I realize that she isn't in the same league as the monstrous Patel and Braverman but dear god why does someone so right-wing join the Labour party?

League tables of the criminality of foreigners by nationality. Which universe exists where this isn't a massive win for the Tories and Reform UK? How can this not fuel prejudice? How about league tables for criminality by race? That's next surely.

Even if full context is provided, eg the numbers as a proportion of that group in the UK and the same figures for UK criminals, that context will be stripped from them again when the right-wing press regurgitates them on their front pages, or when Farage, Jenrick, Badenoch and Tice use them as ammunition. The publication of these numbers, every time, will be a gift to Farage et al, and a fucking milstone around the neck of the government. They are morally and politically clueless.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... alities-uk

It's utterly mad, I can't see any logic behind that at all.

It’s an appalling idea.

First up, I don’t think most police officers record if an offender or victim is an immigrant or not, and then what their original country of origin was.

Secondly what will this show? It might demonstrate that immigrants cause less crime. Or it might show that one particular group is disproportionately offending. In which case the nutters will be out to play.

Exposing the inherent criminality of those nefarious Liechtensteiners.

I originally wrote that as a joke, trying to pick the most inoffensive nationality to declare evil, but it occurred to me while typing that there's probably so few of them in the country that it would only take a minor fluctuation of statistics to see them be either saints or the most criminal immigrants ever. Stop the Liechtenstein boats!

Puja

[Donny osmond]

It's utterly mad, I can't see any logic behind that at all.

It’s an appalling idea.

First up, I don’t think most police officers record if an offender or victim is an immigrant or not, and then what their original country of origin was.

Secondly what will this show? It might demonstrate that immigrants cause less crime. Or it might show that one particular group is disproportionately offending. In which case the nutters will be out to play.

Exposing the inherent criminality of those nefarious Liechtensteiners.
.....

Stop the Liechtenstein boats!

Puja

Surely this will unite the country?

[Son of Mathonwy]

It's utterly mad, I can't see any logic behind that at all.

It’s an appalling idea.

First up, I don’t think most police officers record if an offender or victim is an immigrant or not, and then what their original country of origin was.

Secondly what will this show? It might demonstrate that immigrants cause less crime. Or it might show that one particular group is disproportionately offending. In which case the nutters will be out to play.

Exposing the inherent criminality of those nefarious Liechtensteiners.

I originally wrote that as a joke, trying to pick the most inoffensive nationality to declare evil, but it occurred to me while typing that there's probably so few of them in the country that it would only take a minor fluctuation of statistics to see them be either saints or the most criminal immigrants ever. Stop the Liechtenstein boats!

Puja

This is a win for the far-right whatever the numbers. If there are x thousand Poles on the list the headline will be x thousand Polish criminals, no matter if x is actually a relatively low number considering how many Poles live here and/or it shows a lower ratio of criminals to noncriminals than UK nationals. And the publishing of the figures will be an excuse for the headlines to include the words 'criminal' and 'foreign' every time. It's almost like Cooper wants riots.

Where did this idea come from? Was it Cooper's brainwave - to raise her profile? Did Starmer say do something to make us look tough? Did McSweeney think this is what Farage would do - let's do it? They clearly don't understand, despite copious evidence from Europe and from the rise of Farage here, that acting like xenophobes encourages xenophobia. Whatever Starmer thinks he will achieve in five years will be torn down in a month by Farage in 2029.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89g5xw53y2o?

My MP must be doing something right

[Which Tyler]

Virginia Giuffre, who accused Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse, has died by suicide aged 41, her family has said

Did someone say "Dr David Kelly"?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Virginia Giuffre, who accused Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse, has died by suicide aged 41, her family has said

Did someone say "Dr David Kelly"?

Just another one of those people who know too much about the rich and powerful, killing themselves. Nothing suspicious there.

[Sandydragon]

Virginia Giuffre, who accused Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse, has died by suicide aged 41, her family has said

Did someone say "Dr David Kelly"?

Just another one of those people who know too much about the rich and powerful, killing themselves. Nothing suspicious there.

It seems she was a deeply troubled person (looking at her most recent media articles) so I wouldn’t rush to judgement.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Virginia Giuffre, who accused Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein of sexual abuse, has died by suicide aged 41, her family has said

Did someone say "Dr David Kelly"?

Just another one of those people who know too much about the rich and powerful, killing themselves. Nothing suspicious there.

It seems she was a deeply troubled person (looking at her most recent media articles) so I wouldn’t rush to judgement.

We'll never know but her death is very convenient for numerous rich and powerful people.

[Which Tyler]

MPs set to vote on decriminalisation of abortion in England and Wales

Labour backbenchers put forward amendment to legislation that would reform ‘archaic abortion law’

[Son of Mathonwy]

I'm trying to decide whether I want Labour to lose the Runcorn and Helsby byelection to Reform.

If Labour win they'll think they're doing okay and will continue on the same course. Which is bad for us and for them (in 2029).

If they lose, who knows what their reaction will be? Ape Reform even more? Or realize (finally) that no matter how many Faragist arguments they make they can never out-Farage Farage?

I have a horrible feeling they'll see either result as a reason to tack right.

In the end though, a loss will be undeniable evidence that they are going wrong and is more likely to lead to change (and maybe sackings) and change could be for the better. So bring on the loss.