gaza conflict

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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

Post by Son of Mathonwy »

Hilarious challenge to recognising Palestine from Israel-supporting lords. One slight problem with their argument - we aren't signatories to the Montevideo Convention - no one outside the Americas is.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... tional-law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevideo_Convention


On this topic, since the USA is a signatory, perhaps they should refamiliarize themselves with article 11, which says:
The contracting states definitely establish the rule of their conduct the precise obligation not to recognize territorial acquisitions or advantages that have been obtained by force whether this consists in the employment of arms, in threatening diplomatic representations, or in any other effective coercive measure
. . . and consider how this might apply to Palestine, and Russian-occupied Ukraine. And for the future, Greenland.
paddy no 11
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Re: gaza conflict

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Amazing footage from a pro palestine March in sydney

Hopefully it gets some coverage, and governments do what they're citizens actually want I.e not let kids starve
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Puja
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Re: gaza conflict

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I am astounded at the media coverage of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpwyxv9nv2vo

Yes, it's horrible seeing a human being in an emaciated and starved state. But he's being held in Gaza, which had been bombed, blockaded, and deliberately starved - did people expect that he was somehow going to be eating better than the rest of the populace?

I feel like the Western media value Israeli lives and Palestinian lives very differently. No-one is defending Hamas and their awful murders and hostage taking, but an Israeli being kidnapped, or starved or killed is an outrage, whereas the Palestinians arrested without charge when the Israeli security services want to put pressure on Hamas, or the Gazans starving, or the people in the West Bank murdered in "security incidents where warning shots were fired" are a statistic.

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Re: gaza conflict

Post by Danno »

Yeah that was a brutal read. Written in a vacuum with no appreciation of the overall context of what is happening out there.

I'd already lost virtually all faith in the Beeb since 2015 but their reporting on Gaza has been particularly disgusting under some masquerade of impartiality
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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Puja wrote: Sun Aug 03, 2025 9:57 pm I am astounded at the media coverage of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpwyxv9nv2vo

Yes, it's horrible seeing a human being in an emaciated and starved state. But he's being held in Gaza, which had been bombed, blockaded, and deliberately starved - did people expect that he was somehow going to be eating better than the rest of the populace?

I feel like the Western media value Israeli lives and Palestinian lives very differently. No-one is defending Hamas and their awful murders and hostage taking, but an Israeli being kidnapped, or starved or killed is an outrage, whereas the Palestinians arrested without charge when the Israeli security services want to put pressure on Hamas, or the Gazans starving, or the people in the West Bank murdered in "security incidents where warning shots were fired" are a statistic.

Puja
Starving people is an awful crime, but I'm thinking starving 2 million people is ... 2 million times worse than starving one person, and the coverage should reflect this.

The article ends with :
Israel launched its offensive in Gaza in response to the Hamas-led attack on 7 October 2023, in which about 1,200 people were killed.

The Hamas-run health authorities say 60,430 people have been killed as a result of the Israeli military campaign.
So still the BBC are accepting the Israeli numbers as fact (with their track record of lies) whereas the Palestinian numbers are just hearsay. Despite studies which suggest that the 60k figure is a gross underestimate.
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Re: gaza conflict

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Every. Fucking. Day.
paddy no 11
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Re: gaza conflict

Post by paddy no 11 »

David lammy - minister for the obvious, says israeli plans for the west bank ate illegal and undermine a 2 state solution

Not shit sherlock, how about doing something about it
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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paddy no 11 wrote: Thu Aug 21, 2025 3:02 pm David lammy - minister for the obvious, says israeli plans for the west bank ate illegal and undermine a 2 state solution

Not shit sherlock, how about doing something about it
I'm sure he condemns it in the strongest terms. That usually rattles them.
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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There's zero chance of Labour doing the right thing on Gaza when you see how much the Israel lobby has been paying them.

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Re: gaza conflict

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Son of Mathonwy wrote: Fri Aug 22, 2025 8:53 pm There's zero chance of Labour doing the right thing on Gaza when you see how much the Israel lobby has been paying them.

Christ I'm some idiot for believing those lammy crocodile tears, thanks for posting
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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paddy no 11 wrote: Sat Aug 23, 2025 9:56 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: Fri Aug 22, 2025 8:53 pm There's zero chance of Labour doing the right thing on Gaza when you see how much the Israel lobby has been paying them.

Christ I'm some idiot for believing those lammy crocodile tears, thanks for posting
Yeah, that old film of Lammy hanging out with the Israel lobby is sickening . . . but has to be seen.

And yet these sums are tiny for a rich man. Why can't we get money out of politics*? Oh, yeah, coz people like Starmer are at the top. No wonder they'd do anything to stop Corbyn.



* and, perversely, why don't we give them bigger salaries? They might be more independent and start acting on their consciences (that would be revealing :lol: ).
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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Another thing about Lammy is that he's been around long enough that he's got a track record. And crucially, we can see he voted to invade Iraq. Which is a bit of a tell. Same for Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham. Once a cunt . . .
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Re: gaza conflict

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Son of Mathonwy wrote: Sat Aug 23, 2025 10:13 am
paddy no 11 wrote: Sat Aug 23, 2025 9:56 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: Fri Aug 22, 2025 8:53 pm There's zero chance of Labour doing the right thing on Gaza when you see how much the Israel lobby has been paying them.

Christ I'm some idiot for believing those lammy crocodile tears, thanks for posting
Yeah, that old film of Lammy hanging out with the Israel lobby is sickening . . . but has to be seen.

And yet these sums are tiny for a rich man. Why can't we get money out of politics*? Oh, yeah, coz people like Starmer are at the top. No wonder they'd do anything to stop Corbyn.



* and, perversely, why don't we give them bigger salaries? They might be more independent and start acting on their consciences (that would be revealing :lol: ).
I always regard that line of argument as being on a par with, "If we cut corporation tax, then they will create more jobs." Most rich people don't have 'enough' - with a few rare exceptions, they generally feel that they both need to have more and deserve to have more, no matter how much they actually have. I don't believe there is any amount of money that would put them above influence buying.

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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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It's amazing how easy it is for us to impose sanctions when we want to. When something really is intolerable to us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ce-germany

Needless to say this is what we should do to Israel. Needless to say, we won't.
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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What a piece of shit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... stwar-gaza

Unfortunately for the world, Blair is that dangerous combination of smart, organized and evil.
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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: gaza conflict

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Puja wrote: Sat Aug 23, 2025 4:16 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: Sat Aug 23, 2025 10:13 am * and, perversely, why don't we give them bigger salaries? They might be more independent and start acting on their consciences (that would be revealing :lol: ).
I always regard that line of argument as being on a par with, "If we cut corporation tax, then they will create more jobs." Most rich people don't have 'enough' - with a few rare exceptions, they generally feel that they both need to have more and deserve to have more, no matter how much they actually have. I don't believe there is any amount of money that would put them above influence buying.

Puja
My thinking is:
1) it is a very important job, so I have no fundamental problem with it being very well paid (a better alternative would be to bring everyone else's salaries down towards MP level :shock:)
2) this only affects 650 people. That limits the cost. Corporation tax is big enough to have a macroeconomic impact, so different rules apply.
3) Yes, there are many for whom enough is never enough, but bringing their pay up to that of some of their professional friends would at least make this bribery more difficult and reduce the undignified scrabbling around for expenses they can claim.

Of course we could avoid all of this with some sensible, anti-corruption rules:
1) political donations limited to say £1000/annum per person, and
2) only from UK citizens (no corporations/organizations or foreigners).
3) no paid work other than their work as MPs.
4) a contracted minimum number of working hours.
5) a total ban on lobbying.
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Puja
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Re: gaza conflict

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Son of Mathonwy wrote: Thu Aug 28, 2025 8:57 am It's amazing how easy it is for us to impose sanctions when we want to. When something really is intolerable to us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ce-germany

Needless to say this is what we should do to Israel. Needless to say, we won't.
With the usual disclaimer that Iran's government are a bunch of evil shiteholes, I can completely understand where they're coming from with this. Firstly, we implore them to sign up to the JCPoA in 2015, somrthing which cost the moderate figures in Iran a lot of political capital to get the hardliners to go along with, and then the USA completely repudiates it just 2 years later, meaning the hardliners get to say, "I told you so!" and oust the moderates who have no credibility left. Then we continually push them about "making a deal" in public, while ignoring the "what, like the one you've just broken" and erratically apply sanctions, depending on how much we want to appease Trump. And then most recently, we get them back into negotiations, only for Israel to unilaterally bomb them, mostly because Netanyahu wanted a distraction from Gaza, and when they protest, our leaders make public statements in favour of Israel and talk about how Iran "need to come back to the negotiating table" that they were literally already at, two days before the first bombs.

Frankly, I'm surprised there's any moderate figures willing to negotiate left at all in Iran, considering every time they do accept our outstretched hand, it turns out to have a shock buzzer in it.

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