New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Oakboy]

This does not fill me with confidence

"Steve kept things really simple,” Atkinson says. “He made me aware early doors that international rugby is a lot about physicality and discipline – not giving away penalties. Simple things and simple habits that maybe I didn’t appreciate quite how important they are towards winning rugby matches. That was a big thing and hopefully something I can bring back to Gloucester. Even in games where there are 50 points, matches will often come down to a few moments here and there. That really opened my eyes."

I don't know - seems pretty bang on to me. It's not saying that flair has no place, but that flair without the basic underlying core won't get you to the top level. There are lots of players that can trade on their skills and flair at club level and it masks their weaknesses, but they'll be found wanting at the step up - that's why Muir and Roebuck are preferred to Ibitoye, despite the latter's incredible successes for Brizzle.

I'm hopeful that that article's not 100% fluff and that SAtkinson is going up a gear after seeing the top level. He is a good player, but if he can reduce his error count, then he could be great, and that would be fantastic for England.

Puja

Aye I know what you mean. It just smells a bit like that thing of England coaching talent out of players that we've been a bit squinty eyed about for over a decade now.

This. If he had been English, would Russell have got the 10 shirt ahead of Farrell? It's partly the old adage of concentrating on what they are good at rather than highlighting faults. It's more about the sum of the creative ability within a team unit, linked with balance of defence/attack overall.

[FKAS]

I don't know - seems pretty bang on to me. It's not saying that flair has no place, but that flair without the basic underlying core won't get you to the top level. There are lots of players that can trade on their skills and flair at club level and it masks their weaknesses, but they'll be found wanting at the step up - that's why Muir and Roebuck are preferred to Ibitoye, despite the latter's incredible successes for Brizzle.

I'm hopeful that that article's not 100% fluff and that SAtkinson is going up a gear after seeing the top level. He is a good player, but if he can reduce his error count, then he could be great, and that would be fantastic for England.

Puja

Aye I know what you mean. It just smells a bit like that thing of England coaching talent out of players that we've been a bit squinty eyed about for over a decade now.

This. If he had been English, would Russell have got the 10 shirt ahead of Farrell? It's partly the old adage of concentrating on what they are good at rather than highlighting faults. It's more about the sum of the creative ability within a team unit, linked with balance of defence/attack overall.

Which Russell? Russell in his early to mid twenties, no chance. Russell after he started controlling games and being more of an all round flyhalf in his late twenties and early thirties, yes I think he would.

Remember Ford played mostly at 10 with Farrell at 12 for a reason, Marcus Smith has nearly 50 England caps at 26 as we are desperate for him to follow the same learning curve Russell did. I'm hoping he makes that developmental step forward soon.

[Which Tyler]

Which Russell? Russell in his early to mid twenties, no chance. Russell after he started controlling games and being more of an all round flyhalf in his late twenties and early thirties, yes I think he would.

Remember Ford played mostly at 10 with Farrell at 12 for a reason, Marcus Smith has nearly 50 England caps at 26 as we are desperate for him to follow the same learning curve Russell did. I'm hoping he makes that developmental step forward soon.

Would Russell have developed into the world class, controlling fly half he is, if he hadn't been playing, and losing test matches (and a place in Lions tests) as a mid-20s maverick?

[FKAS]

Which Russell? Russell in his early to mid twenties, no chance. Russell after he started controlling games and being more of an all round flyhalf in his late twenties and early thirties, yes I think he would.

Remember Ford played mostly at 10 with Farrell at 12 for a reason, Marcus Smith has nearly 50 England caps at 26 as we are desperate for him to follow the same learning curve Russell did. I'm hoping he makes that developmental step forward soon.

Would Russell have developed into the world class, controlling fly half he is, if he hadn't been playing, and losing test matches (and a place in Lions tests) as a mid-20s maverick?

Would he have improved quicker competing with/learning from Ford and Farrell (well mainly Ford)?

Hard to say. He'd probably have suffered like most English flyhalfs with the attacking handbrake of Farrell at 12.

[FKAS]

Bath being a bit cheeky it seems.

Defiant Bath coach Johann van Graan breaks silence on exploiting loophole to get his star men match fit - after Saracens boss Mark McCall hit out | Daily Mail Online https://share.google/JpSGZIX4Fo1pEHWRP

[Which Tyler]

Mark McCall wouldn't dream of being cheeky - hence Farrell won't be playing until week 3...

I'm not sure that playing a friendly match is all that cheeky during pre-season though (though I also think the player welfare stand-down should be a stand-down, not "stand-down-unless-friendly". Should probably be longer than 10 weeks too)

[Puja]

Mark McCall wouldn't dream of being cheeky - hence Farrell won't be playing until week 3...

I'm not sure that playing a friendly match is all that cheeky during pre-season though (though I also think the player welfare stand-down should be a stand-down, not "stand-down-unless-friendly". Should probably be longer than 10 weeks too)

I think the cheeky bit is arranging it the same weekend as a Prem Cup game and putting out the academy.

Agreed that a friendly shouldn't count, but I don't get how club coaches are whining about "the player welfare break is damaging for player welfare cause we have to throw them straight back into starting high-level Prem fixtures." Maybe, you know... don't do that, if it's such a problem? No-one's making you pick your internationals from the start instead of bringing them off the bench?

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

Strange argument given Willis was the best player on the pitch as usual. Like Puja says, Willis and Farrell could have easily been brought off the bench.

Feels like McCall is becoming a bit like Baxter. Constantly complaining about things- probably to mask the fact that he’s not quite as effective a coach as he once was.

[Puja]

George Martin confirmed out until the second half of the season with recovering from the nerve damage in his shoulder. Awful injury, but it could be an ill wind that blows no good - a prolonged period of rest and recuperation for his dodgy knee (when the knee itself is not actively injured and rehabbing, for once) could revitalise him in the long run, if he manages it right.

Puja

[Puja]

BCurry mulling over the timing of a hamstring operation - could probably do with being sorted sooner, but it'll rule him out of the AIs and, with the competition in the back row at present, it's entirely possible he might not be able to get back in. Difficult choice.

Puja

[Danno]

BCurry mulling over the timing of a hamstring operation - could probably do with being sorted sooner, but it'll rule him out of the AIs and, with the competition in the back row at present, it's entirely possible he might not be able to get back in. Difficult choice.

Puja

I understand the dilemma given how he had to fight his way in after you-know-who left him out in the cold, but surely your health comes first. I think I'd want to extend my career with an op over risking it.

Is he on a Central?

[FKAS]

BCurry mulling over the timing of a hamstring operation - could probably do with being sorted sooner, but it'll rule him out of the AIs and, with the competition in the back row at present, it's entirely possible he might not be able to get back in. Difficult choice.

Puja

I understand the dilemma given how he had to fight his way in after you-know-who left him out in the cold, but surely your health comes first. I think I'd want to extend my career with an op over risking it.

Is he on a Central?

There's a few backrow trying to fight their way in. Do you want to risk a rival taking their chance?

[Danno]

BCurry mulling over the timing of a hamstring operation - could probably do with being sorted sooner, but it'll rule him out of the AIs and, with the competition in the back row at present, it's entirely possible he might not be able to get back in. Difficult choice.

Puja

I understand the dilemma given how he had to fight his way in after you-know-who left him out in the cold, but surely your health comes first. I think I'd want to extend my career with an op over risking it.

Is he on a Central?

There's a few backrow trying to fight their way in. Do you want to risk a rival taking their chance?

Yeah I wouldn't want to be in his position at all. He's finally hammered the barn door down and now he has to consider a spell on the sidelines.

[Puja]

BCurry mulling over the timing of a hamstring operation - could probably do with being sorted sooner, but it'll rule him out of the AIs and, with the competition in the back row at present, it's entirely possible he might not be able to get back in. Difficult choice.

Puja

I understand the dilemma given how he had to fight his way in after you-know-who left him out in the cold, but surely your health comes first. I think I'd want to extend my career with an op over risking it.

Is he on a Central?

I think the hope is to have his cake and eat it - play in the AIs, then have the surgery and be off for just long enough that he can get form for Sale before the 6N. Obviously a risk if it goes pop before then.

With the way Pepper's playing, Pollock due to return, TWillis surely pushing Earl to the flanks, you can't blame him for wanting to chance it. Could also end up in the situation where he delays the op, then doesn't get picked for England anyway - worst of all possible worlds.

Puja

[Danno]

BCurry mulling over the timing of a hamstring operation - could probably do with being sorted sooner, but it'll rule him out of the AIs and, with the competition in the back row at present, it's entirely possible he might not be able to get back in. Difficult choice.

Puja

I understand the dilemma given how he had to fight his way in after you-know-who left him out in the cold, but surely your health comes first. I think I'd want to extend my career with an op over risking it.

Is he on a Central?

I think the hope is to have his cake and eat it - play in the AIs, then have the surgery and be off for just long enough that he can get form for Sale before the 6N. Obviously a risk if it goes pop before then.

With the way Pepper's playing, Pollock due to return, TWillis surely pushing Earl to the flanks, you can't blame him for wanting to chance it. Could also end up in the situation where he delays the op, then doesn't get picked for England anyway - worst of all possible worlds.

Puja

Aye it's an absolute bugger's muddle for him. I really really hope playing through it (if that's what he chooses) doesn't backfire. On a more positive note, he's still in great form and I'd have him straight back into the side if he carries on like this after the procedure. Ben and Henry can warm the bench for a bit.

[Oakboy]

I understand the dilemma given how he had to fight his way in after you-know-who left him out in the cold, but surely your health comes first. I think I'd want to extend my career with an op over risking it.

Is he on a Central?

I think the hope is to have his cake and eat it - play in the AIs, then have the surgery and be off for just long enough that he can get form for Sale before the 6N. Obviously a risk if it goes pop before then.

With the way Pepper's playing, Pollock due to return, TWillis surely pushing Earl to the flanks, you can't blame him for wanting to chance it. Could also end up in the situation where he delays the op, then doesn't get picked for England anyway - worst of all possible worlds.

Puja

Aye it's an absolute bugger's muddle for him. I really really hope playing through it (if that's what he chooses) doesn't backfire. On a more positive note, he's still in great form and I'd have him straight back into the side if he carries on like this after the procedure. Ben and Henry can warm the bench for a bit.

I think BC is damned good, if a fair distance behind his brother. However, to compete for an England starting shirt, he needs to be right on top of his game. At 85% or whatever, he does not get in, IMO. Add on the possibility of damaging the muscle even further, thereby lengthening the absence, and there's no sense to trying to delay the op'.

[Puja]

I think the hope is to have his cake and eat it - play in the AIs, then have the surgery and be off for just long enough that he can get form for Sale before the 6N. Obviously a risk if it goes pop before then.

With the way Pepper's playing, Pollock due to return, TWillis surely pushing Earl to the flanks, you can't blame him for wanting to chance it. Could also end up in the situation where he delays the op, then doesn't get picked for England anyway - worst of all possible worlds.

Puja

Aye it's an absolute bugger's muddle for him. I really really hope playing through it (if that's what he chooses) doesn't backfire. On a more positive note, he's still in great form and I'd have him straight back into the side if he carries on like this after the procedure. Ben and Henry can warm the bench for a bit.

I think BC is damned good, if a fair distance behind his brother. However, to compete for an England starting shirt, he needs to be right on top of his game. At 85% or whatever, he does not get in, IMO. Add on the possibility of damaging the muscle even further, thereby lengthening the absence, and there's no sense to trying to delay the op'.

Fair point on him potentially being under par if playing through an injury. He's not selected for Sale's game tomorrow, so I don't know what, if anything, that tells you.

Puja

[Danno]

Tom is absolutely broken as well. Apparently had a dislocated wrist on the Lions tour but played through it. I have the vainest hope he'll take a bit of time out to put his body right and extend his career beyond the age of 29, but he's a madman so that won't happen

[Captainhaircut]

Ben Bamber has started the season well.

Put on 8kg and shaved 50 seconds off his fitness test in the summer according to Sanderson and it appears to be showing. We don’t have many 6”9 and 20 stone locks..

Ewels and Clark injured too.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah - there’s a visible difference. Last season I thought he looked good in parts but often a bit uncertain - like he wasn’t totally sure what he should be doing. Probably not massively surprising given his background. Early days but it looks like it’s starting to click.

On current form I’d definitely want him in the A squad.

[FKAS]

Yeah, I'd say he's in line for an A call up. He's stepped into the Hill shaped hole for Sale. Bamber and Batley might be a nice combo, particularly if there's a 6 that can jump at lineout time like say Kenningham.

[Puja]

Jack Singleton out long-term with "a cardiac event" back in September: https://www.planetrugby.com/news/glouce ... diac-issue

Poor sod; hope he's okay.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Yeah, I'd say he's in line for an A call up. He's stepped into the Hill shaped hole for Sale. Bamber and Batley might be a nice combo, particularly if there's a 6 that can jump at lineout time like say Kenningham.

Yep. Like that. Good combo of grunt and mobility.

[FKAS]

Jack Singleton out long-term with "a cardiac event" back in September: https://www.planetrugby.com/news/glouce ... diac-issue

Poor sod; hope he's okay.

Puja

Yeah, he had a good season last year. Really bad luck for him, hope it's not serious and there's no lasting effects. Ben Youngs had a similar scare and came through ok.

[Which Tyler]

Hope Seb Atkinson is okay after his injury.
Have to say though Ojomoh is starting this season really strong - and has a good chance to cement a club/country partnership with Lawrence now.