Racism in English rugby

[Puja]

Luther Burrell coming out and talking about the amount of casual racism that he's experienced: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61942082

Depressing, but unsurprising.

Puja

[FKAS]

The RFU should call an enquiry. In an ideal world we'd name, shame and ban but it's sadly not that easy.

[Mr Mwenda]

I'm glad he's talking about it. The extract I read in the guardian was so weird, speaking to a wide cultural problem. Simultaneously depressing, wince inducing and angering.

[Oakboy]

In the past I have witnessed 'racial' banter that made me cringe with embarrassment only to have the guys participating (of different skin colours) laugh and joke in obvious harmony. Now, that must stop apparently. Fair enough. What I don't understand is how you can condemn stuff from years back without fully considering context and attitudes that prevailed THEN.

[Puja]

Just seen some of the actual quotes and holy hells do they make everything much worse:

“Things get said in jest without any thought. Every week, every fortnight. Comments about bananas when you’re making a smoothie in the morning. Comments about fried chicken when you’re out for dinner.

“I’ve heard things that you wouldn’t expect to hear 20 years ago. We had a hot day at training and I told one of the lads to put on their factor 50. Someone came back and said, ‘You don’t need it, Luth, put your carrot oil on’. Then another lad jumps in and says, ‘No, no, no, he’ll need it for where his shackles were as a slave’.

“Excuse my language but, what the f---? Where does that come from? Some players shake their head and others laugh along with it.

“People greet you as, ‘What’s up my n-----?’ It’s not meant in a bad way but when is it going to change? It’s a very, very raw subject. Over the past few years, it’s happened a lot. That’s the environment.

“It’s normalised because I allowed it to become normalised. I’d laugh it off. I’ve been a coward by not speaking up. Over the years, I’ve become thicker skinned. You know how long I’ve thought about talking about this. I will never name names but it’s gone on for too long.”

Jesus H Christ! I retract my use of the word "casual" from the opening post - that is fucking insane.

In the past I have witnessed 'racial' banter that made me cringe with embarrassment only to have the guys participating (of different skin colours) laugh and joke in obvious harmony. Now, that must stop apparently. Fair enough. What I don't understand is how you can condemn stuff from years back without fully considering context and attitudes that prevailed THEN.

The issue is that people dont want to be seen as a dick, as a bore, as someone who "can't take a joke", especially when they are in a minority in a group, so they do swallow it down and laugh along. This goes doubly if your cringing in embarrassment was done without any real outward effect, cause if they "take offence" then they're the one causing the problem and there's a good chance that they'll be the only one. Far easier to participate "in obvious harmony".

Also, we're not talking the 1920s here - this would be the 2010s, so I don't think you can bring out "context and attitudes that prevailed then".

Puja

[Raggs]

That's vile.

[Which Tyler]

WTF?

[Oakboy]

The issue is that people dont want to be seen as a dick, as a bore, as someone who "can't take a joke", especially when they are in a minority in a group, so they do swallow it down and laugh along. This goes doubly if your cringing in embarrassment was done without any real outward effect, cause if they "take offence" then they're the one causing the problem and there's a good chance that they'll be the only one. Far easier to participate "in obvious harmony".

Also, we're not talking the 1920s here - this would be the 2010s, so I don't think you can bring out "context and attitudes that prevailed then".

Puja

Bloody hell, Puja, I'm ancient but NOT that old! I was referring to the early 1990s. In one case I remember involving two serving Royal Marines, one black, one white, the black guy started the exchange. They were both in the home squash team. We, the arriving away team, were horrified but the other members of the home team assured us it was quite normal behaviour for them.

Things had changed by the 2010s as you point out.

[Slater582]

Just seen some of the actual quotes and holy hells do they make everything much worse:

“I’ve heard things that you wouldn’t expect to hear 20 years ago. We had a hot day at training and I told one of the lads to put on their factor 50. Someone came back and said, ‘You don’t need it, Luth, put your carrot oil on’. Then another lad jumps in and says, ‘No, no, no, he’ll need it for where his shackles were as a slave’.

Jesus H Christ! I retract my use of the word "casual" from the opening post - that is fucking insane.

Turns out that horrible comment was made by a team-mate when Burrell was at Newcastle, so quite recent.

Also according to Burrell bringing these issues to light brought his professional career to an end.

[Captainhaircut]

Disgusting stuff.

I would say though that having watched a 34 year Burrell play for Falcons, I don’t think this did end his career…

[FKAS]

Disgusting stuff.

I would say though that having watched a 34 year Burrell play for Falcons, I don’t think this did end his career…

Agreed on both counts.

What was said is now and was then unacceptable, rugby banter can be pretty rough but sounds like it crossed the line, repeatedly.

To say it ended his career and trying to make himself a martyr for the cause is a bit optimistic though. The cynic in me suspects it might be the precursor to potential legal action.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah - this is exactly what crossed my mind.

I applaud him for taking a stand. However, I think the ‘this killed my career piece’ seems to be ignoring that he was very much at the end of his run anyway.

I think he raised these issues following his Newcastle exit when he was 34. I’d question how much of a career had left? Whatever options might have been available to him are unlikely to have been at the top level or long term anyway, so the loss of potential earnings angle is a little overblown. Moreover, I think it would be extremely hard to prove that opportunities were not forthcoming solely as a result of his whistle blowing.

[Mikey Brown]

There’s being in your thirties and not looking like you’ll ever bother England selection again, and then there’s been completely done as a professional.

A toxic, belittling work environment doesn’t seem like an unfair thing to cite. He may well have been on the wind down but lots of players go in to their late 30s.

Whether all this was simply dragging him down and affecting his passion/performance, rather than him being directly fired because of racism, it feels a bit off to counter his claims by saying ‘well he was crap anyway’.

I totally accept he wasn’t likely to be signed by a big club or missing out on years more at the top level though.

[Puja]

There’s being in your thirties and not looking like you’ll ever bother England selection again, and then there’s been completely done as a professional.

A toxic, belittling work environment doesn’t seem like an unfair thing to cite. He may well have been on the wind down but lots of players go in to their late 30s.

Whether all this was simply dragging him down and affecting his passion/performance, rather than him being directly fired because of racism, it feels a bit off to counter his claims by saying ‘well he was crap anyway’.

I totally accept he wasn’t likely to be signed by a big club or missing out on years more at the top level though.

Plus, it's not just playing - lots of players go from retirement to a job coaching in age grades or working elsewhere in the club machinery, staying within the sport, something which I wouldn't blame Burrell if he didn't feel welcome doing.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

He specifically refers to playin. No mention of coaching.

“ I have absolutely had to retire because of what went on," said Burrell, who spent seven years at Northampton before joining Newcastle.
"I wanted to carry on playing, of course I did. I pursued that, and it fell through when word came out that there were investigations going on.”