England v Fiji

[fivepointer]

England squad for Fiji Test week
Forwards
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Theo Dan (Saracens)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins)
Tom Lockett (Northampton Saints)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)
Guy Pepper (Bath Rugby)
Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Henry Arundell (Bath Rugby)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs)
George Ford (Sale Sharks)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)

Rehabilitation: Elliot Daly (Saracens), George Martin (Leicester Tigers), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers).

Obano and Lockett added to the squad. Callouri and Ojomoh released for a run with the A team i imagine.

[Puja]

Obano and Lockett added to the squad. Callouri and Ojomoh released for a run with the A team i imagine.

Surprising on that logic that Obano won't be with the A team - who else is there to have at 1 when neither Haffar nor Brantingham is playing regularly?

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

Obano and Lockett added to the squad. Callouri and Ojomoh released for a run with the A team i imagine.

Surprising on that logic that Obano won't be with the A team - who else is there to have at 1 when neither Haffar nor Brantingham is playing regularly?

Puja

Iyogun would be the next cab off the rank based on prior squads.

I do wonder if AOF will drop down. We were happy with 5 props for the Oz game so don’t see why we wouldn’t be for Fiji. Baxter could cover tighthead in an absolute emergency.

[FKAS]

I'd like to see a very similar side to last time out. It does look like we need more cohesion in attack and consistency in selection should help that. I'd like to see us go to the bench quite a bit earlier and maybe go 5:3. Get Lawrence onto the bench.

Only real changes I'd make were if we were planning on big system changes ahead of the NZ game. Need to prep for that and can't go weakened into this one as Fiji are a serious outfit.

[Which Tyler]

You can play for Eng A whilst in EPS

[Puja]

I'd like to see a very similar side to last time out. It does look like we need more cohesion in attack and consistency in selection should help that. I'd like to see us go to the bench quite a bit earlier and maybe go 5:3. Get Lawrence onto the bench.

Only real changes I'd make were if we were planning on big system changes ahead of the NZ game. Need to prep for that and can't go weakened into this one as Fiji are a serious outfit.

Agreed - this game should be Warmup #2 for the All Blacks match. Fiji are indeed a serious outfit, but shouldn't be a realistic threat to us if we're playing to our level, and we should be looking at this as an ideal opportunity to build the familiarity and continuity that we lost from not having a full training camp and having to reintegrate both the Lions and the backroom reshuffle.

Back the same XXIII, to my mind, with the only exception being the question around whether Arundell is a good enough full-back to replace Steward.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

You can play for Eng A whilst in EPS

Quite but seems strange they would exclude Ojomoh and Calouri from the squad likely so they can play the A game and no one else.

Also strange to call up Lockett when you’d think he’d start the A game.

[Puja]

You can play for Eng A whilst in EPS

Quite but seems strange they would exclude Ojomoh and Calouri from the squad likely so they can play the A game and no one else.

Also strange to call up Lockett when you’d think he’d start the A game.

It might actually be about having players in camp who can mimic a threat from the opposition? Caluori was clearly used to pretend to be Suaalii before Australia, so maybe Obano's there to replicate the thick-legged, hard-running burly carriers like Mawi, that Fiji are fond of firing into midfield? And Lockett's there to replicate Fiji's love of a lineout compete.

Would make sense of why they're replacing a centre and winger with a lock and a prop.

Puja

[SixAndAHalf]

I'd bring Genge, LCD, Curry and MSmith into the starting team (for Baxter, George, Underhill and Steward) then CCS and Lawrence onto the bench (for Coles and FSmith).

If we are to persist with Steward then I'd have Slade on the bench, rather than Lawrence (or FSmith).

[SixAndAHalf]

You can play for Eng A whilst in EPS

Quite but seems strange they would exclude Ojomoh and Calouri from the squad likely so they can play the A game and no one else.

Also strange to call up Lockett when you’d think he’d start the A game.

It might actually be about having players in camp who can mimic a threat from the opposition? Caluori was clearly used to pretend to be Suaalii before Australia, so maybe Obano's there to replicate the thick-legged, hard-running burly carriers like Mawi, that Fiji are fond of firing into midfield? And Lockett's there to replicate Fiji's love of a lineout compete.

Would make sense of why they're replacing a centre and winger with a lock and a prop.

Puja

That makes a lot of sense - and it actually quite a good use of the 35 / 36 squad space!

[Scrumhead]

Yes. Interesting logic that might not be too wide of the mark.

Either way I’m pleased Obano is still on the radar. Personally I think he should be 3rd choice behind Genge and Baxter. I don’t mind Rodd, but I think Obano is more consistent and better suited to what we actually need from our looseheads (I think Rodd is more skilful but Obano is better in the set piece and tight exchanges).

One other point to note - CCS is off the rehab list.

[Puja]

Yes. Interesting logic that might not be too wide of the mark.

Either way I’m pleased Obano is still on the radar. Personally I think he should be 3rd choice behind Genge and Baxter. I don’t mind Rodd, but I think Obano is more consistent and better suited to what we actually need from our looseheads (I think Rodd is more skilful but Obano is better in the set piece and tight exchanges).

One other point to note - CCS is off the rehab list.

It is also worth noting that Obano is 31, compared to Rodd being 25, so the fact that they are so close in quality means the tie should always go to the younger man. Rodd will improve with experience (and is already pretty damned good - has held up his end of the scrum against a South African pack before and has not let England down in any of his 11 caps so far).

Puja

[Oakboy]

DT reports that Borthwick is planning multiple changes. That only makes sense to me as preparation for NZ, if he is juggling mainly within last Saturday's 23. I hope he is not planning anything stupid like a 7:1 split. In fact, it makes more sense to go the other way, 5:3, to get a speedy back on to the bench. That plus CCS instead of Coles or one of the bench flankers seems logical.

It is still a game to win and I'd suggest getting close to the anticipated 23 for NZ is the way to go. In fact, I'd want what SB considers his best 23 for all three remaining matches.

The RFU needs to work on getting the order of the AIs right. Aus first up means no room for experiments - or it should do.

[FKAS]

In fact, I'd want what SB considers his best 23 for all three remaining matches.

The RFU needs to work on getting the order of the AIs right. Aus first up means no room for experiments - or it should do.

I don't think he wants a "best 23" what he like to do is pick the best 23 for the game ahead. We've built up a pretty good 35 man squad with good depth in most areas (third choice TH and hooker may have some issues, possibly third choice 9 as well) so might as well use it. Relegating 12 good players to just holding tackle bags and waiting for an injury seems a bit pointless when they could be useful tactically.

Freddie Steward being the obvious one who comes into the team whenever we want to nullify the opposition's kicking game, he's a great tactical option in the squad. If the opposition are going to kick long we have a different option in Furbank or Marcus.

I do agree on the ordering of the AIs. Would have been best to finish with NZ but the NZRU are in the business of making cash off these Autumn games so will be booking them up fast with plenty of competition across the 6 or 7 countries vying for a game.

[Captainhaircut]

Agree with that. Don’t think we’ll ever see Borthwick just settle on a 15 and stick with it. Even at Leicester he liked to change things up a bit depending on the opposition.

So we might see Baxter and Heyes start some and not others, might see Chessum at 6 or CCS at 8 vs 3 opensides, change the 10, might play Fin Smith 12 or Marcus Smith full back. It’ll be from the same 30 players or so with another 6 brought in covering injuries so we’ll have consistency there.

If we’re winning games, I couldn’t care one bit…

[Oakboy]

It does beg the question of whether we should build a team that is good enough to say, 'Let the opposition worry about us.'

We are in danger of building in an inferiority complex and reacting too much to our opponents. That, to me, is the style of perpetual runners-up. Idealistic, maybe, but getting the best out of this excellent batch of players means 'scared-of-nobody' self-belief, IMO. Maybe, in playing terms analogy it is the difference between Johnno and SB.

[jngf]

Anybody know how close Ted Hill is getting to being fit for match selection? Pepper did well ( as would T Curry or Kenningham if picked at blindside) but I believe Hill has the highest ceiling of all these options ( and not just in the literal sense )

[jngf]

Also if grapevine is to be believed Ben Earl will get an ( imo overdue) test start at 12 v Fiji on Saturday

[fivepointer]

Also if grapevine is to be believed Ben Earl will get an ( imo overdue) test start at 12 v Fiji on Saturday

I fervently hope that the grapevine has got this wildly wrong.

[twitchy]

Also if grapevine is to be believed Ben Earl will get an ( imo overdue) test start at 12 v Fiji on Saturday

Somewhere, banquo felt annoyed but didn't know why.

[pjm1]

I'd be disappointed if Earl displaces Dingwall - while the latter didn't have his best game, I maintain that the issue was the connection between him and Ford, and not solely on his shoulders. He is a pure distributor, so changing that for an Earl (or a Lawrence) really messes with the prep for NZ and what I thought England were looking to build. I also think Freeman deserves another shot at 13, as he was largely good - except for his crowbarring on attack. Losing Dingwall inside him (especially to a complete novice 12) won't help him bed in.

I thought Steward was ok - and we're fairly scant of other options to be honest. I'd really like to see only modest changes:

FR - swap bench and starters, just to keep NZ guessing what we'll start with against them
2R - keep identical
BR - I'd keep the same, but tempted to swap TC in for Underhill... except for the fact we might need his chop tackles
Halves - swap Fin in for Ford
Centres - keep same
B3 - keep same
Bench - keep the 23 the same, except for Marcus coming onto the bench in place of Ford

But it sounds like that ain't happening!

[Puja]

But it sounds like that ain't happening!

I mean, I haven't found anything that suggests anyone's got insider knowledge yet - all seems like rampant speculation based off Borthwick dead-batting questions with "Yeah, that's definitely an option" in his interviews.

Puja

[Captainhaircut]

Sounds like Steward won’t train until Thursday.

Alternative full back options of Roebuck, Freeman, MSmith, Slade or Arundell.

[Mikey Brown]

Earl must have fielded a few high balls when positioned for kick return while playing 8.

[pjm1]

George was the top tackler in that last game - maybe he can step in at 15? Throwing is a bit like catching...