Six Nations Squad Announcement

[Scrumhead]

There's a lot to like about the squad.

Sela over Fasogbon I'm ok with as Sela is clearly a hell of a talent and frankly if he can scrummage well enough which I'm sure he can it's great to have that carrying ability as an option. Would have been happy with Fasogbon too though, probably over Davison to be honest.

Daly on the wing would be bad as there are better wingers but don't forget his best ever spell for England was on the wing. Agreed though, painful to have him there versus other options.

I like Arthur Clark a lot but not sure he's next cab of the rank after Coles yet...

Agree on Quirke, he'd be my number two 9 too.

Murley isn't of international class in my view, appreciate Roebuck and Radwan are out but still, I might have just gone for Cokanasiga as a squad back up.

Murley does almost everything needed for an international wing...And has become probably our best finisher.

“Murley isn’t international class” followed by “I might have just gone for Cokanasiga” is laughable.

The first statement on Murley is maybe up for debate but to suggest selecting a player who definitely isn’t test standard kills that debate stone dead.

Anyway, no complaints from me on the squad. Sela over Fasogbon is fair enough on recent form IMO and Fisilau has earned his place.

[Stom]

There's a lot to like about the squad.

Sela over Fasogbon I'm ok with as Sela is clearly a hell of a talent and frankly if he can scrummage well enough which I'm sure he can it's great to have that carrying ability as an option. Would have been happy with Fasogbon too though, probably over Davison to be honest.

Daly on the wing would be bad as there are better wingers but don't forget his best ever spell for England was on the wing. Agreed though, painful to have him there versus other options.

I like Arthur Clark a lot but not sure he's next cab of the rank after Coles yet...

Agree on Quirke, he'd be my number two 9 too.

Murley isn't of international class in my view, appreciate Roebuck and Radwan are out but still, I might have just gone for Cokanasiga as a squad back up.

Murley does almost everything needed for an international wing...And has become probably our best finisher.

It’s fielding/covering kicks really isn’t it. Not that I think that’s any sort of strength of Cokanasiga or Radwan.

Mainly, but he's not actually terrible at it...it's more the fact he has a mistake in him. But I still think he's excellent.

[Scrumhead]

He doesn’t even make many mistakes. It’s just very unfortunate that he made a high profile gaffe on his debut.

[fivepointer]

I forgot to give a mention to Joe Batley earlier and really should have. He's in great form and rarely puts in less than a highly effective performance.

[Puja]

So, what's your 23 from that?

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Ford
Arundell
Dingwall
Freeman
IFW
Furbank

George, Rodd, Sela, Coles, CCS, Pollock, JvP, MSmith
OR
George, Rodd, Sela, CCS, Pollock, JvP, MSmith, Daly

Seems harsh on Pepper to boot him out of the XXIII after how good he was in the autumn. I'd have him in ahead of CCS by a distance.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Yep. Pepper was class.

Is Curry actually playing well? I knows he’s been covering 8 for Sale. He doesn’t always seem to require form in the way others do and I actually really liked him as a bench option.

Only just clicked with me that Barbeary isn’t involved. Not a shocking omission but thought he may have upped his game enough to get another look in.

[Scrumhead]

I forgot to give a mention to Joe Batley earlier and really should have. He's in great form and rarely puts in less than a highly effective performance.

Agreed on Batley. I really like him as a player, but I think his problem is that he’s another lock who does his best work in wider channels. We need a big work horse of a lock who hits rucks and does his best work in the set piece and in the tight exchanges. I assume that’s why Clark is preferred and why there’s a lot of hope around Bamber.

[Stom]

So, what's your 23 from that?

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Ford
Arundell
Dingwall
Freeman
IFW
Furbank

George, Rodd, Sela, Coles, CCS, Pollock, JvP, MSmith
OR
George, Rodd, Sela, CCS, Pollock, JvP, MSmith, Daly

Seems harsh on Pepper to boot him out of the XXIII after how good he was in the autumn. I'd have him in ahead of CCS by a distance.

Puja

Good point, well made.

[Oakboy]

Ah hold on.

Rehabilitation in Girona: Fin Baxter (Harlequins), Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), Ollie Lawrence (Bath), Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks), Fin Smith (Northampton Saints).

Not considered for selection: Oscar Beard (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Curtis Langdon (Northampton Saints), George Martin (Leicester Tigers), Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks), Adam Radwan (Leicester Tigers), Will Stuart (Bath).

Just a minor point - why is Ewels not considered for selection if he's on Bath's bench tonight (not that I'd want him picked)?

[Which Tyler]

Rapid recovery from an infection.
Last week, he was "quite a while away"

They obviously found the right antibiotic

[Oakboy]

So, what's your 23 from that?

Genge
LCD
Heyes
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Earl
Mitchell
Ford
Arundell
Dingwall
Freeman
IFW
Furbank

George, Rodd, Sela, Coles, CCS, Pollock, JvP, MSmith
OR
George, Rodd, Sela, CCS, Pollock, JvP, MSmith, Daly

Seems harsh on Pepper to boot him out of the XXIII after how good he was in the autumn. I'd have him in ahead of CCS by a distance.

Puja

I'd have him ahead of Earl and Underhill. Pepper can go on to be part of a quality back row unit, along with T Curry. Earl and Underhill are good individual back rowers.

[Puja]

Yep. Pepper was class.

Is Curry actually playing well? I knows he’s been covering 8 for Sale. He doesn’t always seem to require form in the way others do and I actually really liked him as a bench option.

Only just clicked with me that Barbeary isn’t involved. Not a shocking omission but thought he may have upped his game enough to get another look in.

I think Barbeary's suffering from there being loads of good back row and very few that're like him. If TWillis was still an option (*taps sign*) then he'd stand a good chance as a backup, but with us pivoting to a fleet 3rd-flanker 8, we've got Earl/Pollock/TCurry/Fisilau/Ilione available before we'd need to change style. Barbeary doesn't just need to be playing better than his competitors, he has to be playing well enough to make the case that we should change the balance of our pack in order to accomodate him, and well enough that it's worth doing that even with the risk that we'll have to change back if he gets injured.

Puja

[FKAS]

Yep. Pepper was class.

Is Curry actually playing well? I knows he’s been covering 8 for Sale.

When I've seen the Sale line up in recent weeks it's looked more like they've gone to a Exeter style backrow where whoever is 8 is the link player and there's two big lumps on the flanks.

[Mikey Brown]

Interesting. I mean Tom Curry is basically all grunt these days anyway. I’m sure his ball skills are still there but can’t say I’ve seen much of them for a while now.

[TheDasher]

Getting flak for the Cokanasiga over Murley point, I was too brief earlier. Let me explain.

IFW and Arundell are for me absolute no brainers to start in that squad. As I understand it, Roebuck is injured and Radwan is injured. They would be my next two probably, in the long line of wingers we have. I forgot Hassell Collins and I think Muir has only just come back from injury right? Not sure. Well, I'd have all of those I've mentioned over Coka and Murley. So I wouldn't pick Murley or Coka, nowhere near but obviously due to absentees he has to pick some cover. I say Coka over Murley as I am confident Coka won't play... but if he had to, I think he has a point of difference that if used correctly can be useful, a super strength basically, I'm not sure Murley does. When someone says "he's our best finisher" - I don't think he is. Maybe in the premiership he's a great finisher, but I'm not sure that translates. Is he a better finisher than say Radwan? Not sure.

Aside from that, also disappointed that Batley is out, I'd have him over Clark and Hendy is a no brainer... Love Hendy. In fact I'd play him on the wing over Coka and Murley too.

I await a further hammering for the Cokanasiga love but in essence I'm saying I might have him over Murley but also know that neither will play!

[TheDasher]

I forgot to give a mention to Joe Batley earlier and really should have. He's in great form and rarely puts in less than a highly effective performance.

Agreed on Batley. I really like him as a player, but I think his problem is that he’s another lock who does his best work in wider channels. We need a big work horse of a lock who hits rucks and does his best work in the set piece and in the tight exchanges. I assume that’s why Clark is preferred and why there’s a lot of hope around Bamber.

I think because Batley has amazing highlights in the wider channels people think he's just that. He's a big lump... he has the size and weight and looks extremely physical to me. Traditionally on these boards if a lock forward is quick and good in space they're a bit lightweight... I wouldn't say Batley is that at all. Class player I think.

[TheDasher]

Murley isn't of international class in my view, appreciate Roebuck and Radwan are out but still, I might have just gone for Cokanasiga as a squad back up.

Dash, I don't think Murley is top drawer but he's a better player than Coka, IMO. I'd have picked OHC ahead of either because he is almost as good as Roebuck under the high ball. With Roebuck close to recovery, reportedly, that would seem to align more with SB's usual preferences on wing pairings (i.e. IFW/Arundell + Roebuck/OHC).

Daly is seen as wing/FB cover, presumably but his presence makes little sense to me if Furbank is fit and Fin is back soon (releasing Marcus to cover 15). Maybe, SB rates Daly as the main cover for Roebuck which is OK, I suppose. He's never been an international standard FB or OC but he did look the part on the wing till the horrible Australian swapped him with Brown for some peculiar reason.

I'd also have OHC over Coka and Murley, as you allude to, Roebuck too, I'd start Arundell and IFW from the current crop and wouldn't pick another out and out winger on the bench anyway. Daly makes more sense than Coka and Murley in the 23/on the bench due to versatility. So I guess I'm saying Coka and Murley won't play anyway, but if I had to have one I think Coka has a point of difference that's excellent but is weak in other areas whereas I think at intl level Murley a very good club player... Anyway, who cares, neither will play. Arundell and IFW both starting would be very exciting indeed.

[Scrumhead]

I forgot to give a mention to Joe Batley earlier and really should have. He's in great form and rarely puts in less than a highly effective performance.

Agreed on Batley. I really like him as a player, but I think his problem is that he’s another lock who does his best work in wider channels. We need a big work horse of a lock who hits rucks and does his best work in the set piece and in the tight exchanges. I assume that’s why Clark is preferred and why there’s a lot of hope around Bamber.

I think because Batley has amazing highlights in the wider channels people think he's just that. He's a big lump... he has the size and weight and looks extremely physical to me. Traditionally on these boards if a lock forward is quick and good in space they're a bit lightweight... I wouldn't say Batley is that at all. Class player I think.

Saying he ‘does his best work in wider channels’ isn’t the same as saying he’s ‘lightweight’.

The point is simply that without Martin, we lack a big, mean lock. Clark is closer to that than Batley and I think that’s why he’s getting the nod.

[TheDasher]

Agreed on Batley. I really like him as a player, but I think his problem is that he’s another lock who does his best work in wider channels. We need a big work horse of a lock who hits rucks and does his best work in the set piece and in the tight exchanges. I assume that’s why Clark is preferred and why there’s a lot of hope around Bamber.

I think because Batley has amazing highlights in the wider channels people think he's just that. He's a big lump... he has the size and weight and looks extremely physical to me. Traditionally on these boards if a lock forward is quick and good in space they're a bit lightweight... I wouldn't say Batley is that at all. Class player I think.

Saying he ‘does his best work in wider channels’ isn’t the same as saying he’s ‘lightweight’.

The point is simply that without Martin, we lack a big, mean lock. Clark is closer to that than Batley and I think that’s why he’s getting the nod.

It isn't the same, you're right. I thought you might be implying that, apols. I think Batley is pretty good in the tight. I have been very excited about Bamber but I think Batley might be a star... he'd be in for me.

[FKAS]

Agreed on Batley. I really like him as a player, but I think his problem is that he’s another lock who does his best work in wider channels. We need a big work horse of a lock who hits rucks and does his best work in the set piece and in the tight exchanges. I assume that’s why Clark is preferred and why there’s a lot of hope around Bamber.

I think because Batley has amazing highlights in the wider channels people think he's just that. He's a big lump... he has the size and weight and looks extremely physical to me. Traditionally on these boards if a lock forward is quick and good in space they're a bit lightweight... I wouldn't say Batley is that at all. Class player I think.

Saying he ‘does his best work in wider channels’ isn’t the same as saying he’s ‘lightweight’.

The point is simply that without Martin, we lack a big, mean lock. Clark is closer to that than Batley and I think that’s why he’s getting the nod.

Batley has a better tackle completion success rate and better dominant tackle rate, but it's marginal (89.9% Vs 87.9% and 6.2% and 5.1%), compared to Clark but on average Clark makes 50% more tackles in a game. 16.7 Vs 10.5. We know how much Borthwick loves work rate. Maybe surprisingly Clark has the better Gainline and Dominant carry %age, less surprisingly Batley tends to require multiple tacklers to enter the tackle, evade tackles and score tries.

I suspect the defensive work rate and the fact Clark on average hits more attacking rucks and more efficiently (87% Vs 80%) is why Clark is in over Batley. The fact Clark is five years younger might have something to do with it as well. Batley is realistically going to struggle to make the next two world cups. Clark should be aiming to go to both (outside chance of making the next three).

[Stom]

Getting flak for the Cokanasiga over Murley point, I was too brief earlier. Let me explain.

IFW and Arundell are for me absolute no brainers to start in that squad. As I understand it, Roebuck is injured and Radwan is injured. They would be my next two probably, in the long line of wingers we have. I forgot Hassell Collins and I think Muir has only just come back from injury right? Not sure. Well, I'd have all of those I've mentioned over Coka and Murley. So I wouldn't pick Murley or Coka, nowhere near but obviously due to absentees he has to pick some cover. I say Coka over Murley as I am confident Coka won't play... but if he had to, I think he has a point of difference that if used correctly can be useful, a super strength basically, I'm not sure Murley does. When someone says "he's our best finisher" - I don't think he is. Maybe in the premiership he's a great finisher, but I'm not sure that translates. Is he a better finisher than say Radwan? Not sure.

Aside from that, also disappointed that Batley is out, I'd have him over Clark and Hendy is a no brainer... Love Hendy. In fact I'd play him on the wing over Coka and Murley too.

I await a further hammering for the Cokanasiga love but in essence I'm saying I might have him over Murley but also know that neither will play!

You want to make the case for Radwan being a better finisher, ok, we have some supporting material for that to be a competition. But Murley is a much more active player, he gets everywhere. He's an excellent defender, a brilliant one on one tackler, a hard worker, a good linker, and he can even contribute at the breakdown. He's quick and strong, and underrated in the air. In other words, except for the fact he doesn't look like a pacific islander, he's better than Coka in every single way.

I understand Roebuck as a pick. I wouldn't do that, but I can't argue with the results. Which means I can't argue with Muir, either.

Our order for the wings seems to be now:

IFW, Arundell, Sleightholme/Murley, someone else
Roebuck, Muir, Daly, someone else.

We cannot say who the someone else is, but the most likely is Caluori, who has at least been called up recently. I don't get the love for Coka, he's not shown that he's of the quality. And I don't get the Radwan or OHC calls, either. Yes, OHC has improved a lot in the past 2 seasons, but is he better than any of the 7 wings who have had a chance in recent games?

[TheDasher]

Getting flak for the Cokanasiga over Murley point, I was too brief earlier. Let me explain.

IFW and Arundell are for me absolute no brainers to start in that squad. As I understand it, Roebuck is injured and Radwan is injured. They would be my next two probably, in the long line of wingers we have. I forgot Hassell Collins and I think Muir has only just come back from injury right? Not sure. Well, I'd have all of those I've mentioned over Coka and Murley. So I wouldn't pick Murley or Coka, nowhere near but obviously due to absentees he has to pick some cover. I say Coka over Murley as I am confident Coka won't play... but if he had to, I think he has a point of difference that if used correctly can be useful, a super strength basically, I'm not sure Murley does. When someone says "he's our best finisher" - I don't think he is. Maybe in the premiership he's a great finisher, but I'm not sure that translates. Is he a better finisher than say Radwan? Not sure.

Aside from that, also disappointed that Batley is out, I'd have him over Clark and Hendy is a no brainer... Love Hendy. In fact I'd play him on the wing over Coka and Murley too.

I await a further hammering for the Cokanasiga love but in essence I'm saying I might have him over Murley but also know that neither will play!

You want to make the case for Radwan being a better finisher, ok, we have some supporting material for that to be a competition. But Murley is a much more active player, he gets everywhere. He's an excellent defender, a brilliant one on one tackler, a hard worker, a good linker, and he can even contribute at the breakdown. He's quick and strong, and underrated in the air. In other words, except for the fact he doesn't look like a pacific islander, he's better than Coka in every single way.

I understand Roebuck as a pick. I wouldn't do that, but I can't argue with the results. Which means I can't argue with Muir, either.

Our order for the wings seems to be now:

IFW, Arundell, Sleightholme/Murley, someone else
Roebuck, Muir, Daly, someone else.

We cannot say who the someone else is, but the most likely is Caluori, who has at least been called up recently. I don't get the love for Coka, he's not shown that he's of the quality. And I don't get the Radwan or OHC calls, either. Yes, OHC has improved a lot in the past 2 seasons, but is he better than any of the 7 wings who have had a chance in recent games?

When you say he's better in every single way, you say it as if it's fact. You think he's better in every single way.

Murley is a better all-round rugby player than Coka in my opinion too. I think Coka is a confidence player and got spat out of the England system too early personally, I think there is more there and I like the point of difference. I think with his tail up on a good day he'd be a real handful. I can see a game in which Murley struggles against world class players at the top level personally, although he's good in club game.

Back on Radwan - do you think Leicester would really swap Radwan for Murley? I don't think they would, no chance.

[Puja]

I think you're all underrating Murley. He's like a fast Jack Nowell - powerful and strong through tackles, while still being regularly name-checked as one of the fastest players across 50m in the Premiership. Ridiculously good player and being our 3rd/4th choice "evasive winger" reflect on our riches, not his ability.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

All of that and I still don’t know what Cokanasiga’s USP actually is. Running and breaking tackles? He’s fantastic to watch when he gets going, but not sure he has anything particularly unique in that sense? Offloading ability maybe?

[SixAndAHalf]

From the squad, assuming full fitness I'd go for:

Genge
LCD
Sela
Itoje
Chessum
Pepper
Underhill
Earl

Mitchell
Ford
Roebuck
Atkinson
Freeman
IFW
Furbank

Baxter
George
Heyes
Coles
Curry
Pollock
Spencer
[Lawrence / Daly / MSmith - depending on how confident the coaches are on certain players filling in unconventional positions]

CCS and Arundell unlucky to miss out.

Back row I'd be happy with pretty much any combo of starters / bench from my 23. Props wise, I wouldn't want Sela and Baxter coming off the bench in big games so have Genge babysitting him, with the Baxter / Heyes combo that has worked well coming off the bench.

Surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for Roebuck - I think he's been one of our best players since he came into the team, and suits our playing style very well.