Squad for Scotland

[Puja]

I'd certainly be keen to see if Kloska can add something decent from the bench. Davison's cameo was actually worse than I expected it to be, and I did set a pretty low bar on my expectations!

Puja

He just stood out like a sore thumb, didn’t he…

Yeah, pick Kloska.

Was Davison that obviously poor? Genuinely I didn’t see him do anything notably bad.

That doesn’t mean I think he is a test player, I just want to be fair to the guy,

It was the wombling about looking lost when we were on the attack and ending up accidentally at first receiver. Plus I think he was the one who decided to go for the line and lost the ball in the tackle, which the ref called (very generously for us) as BThomas stripping it on the floor.

Puja

[TheDasher]

I do sometimes wonder if the 'protecting' of young props goes a bit far... Now I'm not saying we throw 19 year olds in to start against South Africa...

BUT - the Welsh props Archie Griffin, Nicky Smith, Rhys Carre and Thomas Francis all play in the prem or in the case of Francis, did play and will play in the prem again. Wales are also at this moment a pretty weak side anyway.

So for Sela or Fasogbon to play against props they play against anyway, week in, week out is not some absolutely massive step up. Nor is it against Scotland, or Italy for that matter. AOF has been eased into intl rugby and I'd have thought to do so with Sela/Fasogbon would make more sense than playing Davison.

There's always the option of calling up old, solid players when you have an absolute injury meltdown and are about to play seriously tough opposition and don't want to destroy a youngster.

I think we have a few question marks at prop and a really defined pecking order would be useful as we approach world cup build up. I have my doubts about Rodd at the top level, definitely doubts about Davison and would love to give those that we believe have really genuine potential a shot if we can.

[Puja]

I do sometimes wonder if the 'protecting' of young props goes a bit far... Now I'm not saying we throw 19 year olds in to start against South Africa...

BUT - the Welsh props Archie Griffin, Nicky Smith, Rhys Carre and Thomas Francis all play in the prem or in the case of Francis, did play and will play in the prem again. Wales are also at this moment a pretty weak side anyway.

So for Sela or Fasogbon to play against props they play against anyway, week in, week out is not some absolutely massive step up. Nor is it against Scotland, or Italy for that matter. AOF has been eased into intl rugby and I'd have thought to do so with Sela/Fasogbon would make more sense than playing Davison.

There's always the option of calling up old, solid players when you have an absolute injury meltdown and are about to play seriously tough opposition and don't want to destroy a youngster.

I think we have a few question marks at prop and a really defined pecking order would be useful as we approach world cup build up. I have my doubts about Rodd at the top level, definitely doubts about Davison and would love to give those that we believe have really genuine potential a shot if we can.

I will once again remind people that Sela has had six (6) starts of adult rugby.

Puja

[TheDasher]

I do sometimes wonder if the 'protecting' of young props goes a bit far... Now I'm not saying we throw 19 year olds in to start against South Africa...

BUT - the Welsh props Archie Griffin, Nicky Smith, Rhys Carre and Thomas Francis all play in the prem or in the case of Francis, did play and will play in the prem again. Wales are also at this moment a pretty weak side anyway.

So for Sela or Fasogbon to play against props they play against anyway, week in, week out is not some absolutely massive step up. Nor is it against Scotland, or Italy for that matter. AOF has been eased into intl rugby and I'd have thought to do so with Sela/Fasogbon would make more sense than playing Davison.

There's always the option of calling up old, solid players when you have an absolute injury meltdown and are about to play seriously tough opposition and don't want to destroy a youngster.

I think we have a few question marks at prop and a really defined pecking order would be useful as we approach world cup build up. I have my doubts about Rodd at the top level, definitely doubts about Davison and would love to give those that we believe have really genuine potential a shot if we can.

I will once again remind people that Sela has had six (6) starts of adult rugby.

Puja

Firstly I guess I'm making a wider point generally about young props, but yes I did include Sela in that.

The England management have included him and presumably think he's not far off being ready to play, hence he's there with them in camp.

Rugby Rebels over the years has doubted 6:2 splits, backs as forwards, centres being interchangeable, size being hugely important etc etc - perhaps we'll see over the next five years that props if strong and good enough can play international rugby a bit younger than they used to as another thing we've been a bit conservative on...

I suspect if Fasogbon or Sela had come of the bench vs Wales, they'd have acquitted themselves pretty well to be honest, such were the struggles of our opposition.

All of that said, Puja I take your point that Sela is at the VERY inexperienced end of things! I get that, he's an extreme for sure.

[FKAS]

I do sometimes wonder if the 'protecting' of young props goes a bit far... Now I'm not saying we throw 19 year olds in to start against South Africa...

BUT - the Welsh props Archie Griffin, Nicky Smith, Rhys Carre and Thomas Francis all play in the prem or in the case of Francis, did play and will play in the prem again. Wales are also at this moment a pretty weak side anyway.

So for Sela or Fasogbon to play against props they play against anyway, week in, week out is not some absolutely massive step up. Nor is it against Scotland, or Italy for that matter. AOF has been eased into intl rugby and I'd have thought to do so with Sela/Fasogbon would make more sense than playing Davison.

There's always the option of calling up old, solid players when you have an absolute injury meltdown and are about to play seriously tough opposition and don't want to destroy a youngster.

I think we have a few question marks at prop and a really defined pecking order would be useful as we approach world cup build up. I have my doubts about Rodd at the top level, definitely doubts about Davison and would love to give those that we believe have really genuine potential a shot if we can.

I will once again remind people that Sela has had six (6) starts of adult rugby.

Puja

Plus asking one of the younger guys to prop against the technical Nicky Smith or the massive Rhys Carre is quite tough. Were they playing loosehead against the Welsh tightheads it might be a different proposition.

[Stom]

I do sometimes wonder if the 'protecting' of young props goes a bit far... Now I'm not saying we throw 19 year olds in to start against South Africa...

BUT - the Welsh props Archie Griffin, Nicky Smith, Rhys Carre and Thomas Francis all play in the prem or in the case of Francis, did play and will play in the prem again. Wales are also at this moment a pretty weak side anyway.

So for Sela or Fasogbon to play against props they play against anyway, week in, week out is not some absolutely massive step up. Nor is it against Scotland, or Italy for that matter. AOF has been eased into intl rugby and I'd have thought to do so with Sela/Fasogbon would make more sense than playing Davison.

There's always the option of calling up old, solid players when you have an absolute injury meltdown and are about to play seriously tough opposition and don't want to destroy a youngster.

I think we have a few question marks at prop and a really defined pecking order would be useful as we approach world cup build up. I have my doubts about Rodd at the top level, definitely doubts about Davison and would love to give those that we believe have really genuine potential a shot if we can.

I will once again remind people that Sela has had six (6) starts of adult rugby.

Puja

Firstly I guess I'm making a wider point generally about young props, but yes I did include Sela in that.

The England management have included him and presumably think he's not far off being ready to play, hence he's there with them in camp.

Rugby Rebels over the years has doubted 6:2 splits, backs as forwards, centres being interchangeable, size being hugely important etc etc - perhaps we'll see over the next five years that props if strong and good enough can play international rugby a bit younger than they used to as another thing we've been a bit conservative on...

I suspect if Fasogbon or Sela had come of the bench vs Wales, they'd have acquitted themselves pretty well to be honest, such were the struggles of our opposition.

All of that said, Puja I take your point that Sela is at the VERY inexperienced end of things! I get that, he's an extreme for sure.

Don't let WT hear you...

Bones do not fully "set" for life in young men until early 20s. Playing a lot of minutes as an u23 prop at the highest level can lead to injury problems later in their career and quality of life issues later in life. Worse than any other position due to the strain on the body, neck, spine, hips, and knees, especially.

[loudnconfident]

[Deleted]
Backs: Henry Arundell, Seb Atkinson, Elliot Daly, Fraser Dingwall, George Ford, Tommy Freeman, Ollie Lawrence, Alex Mitchell, Cadan Murley, Tom Roebuck, Henry Slade, Marcus Smith, Fin Smith, Ben Spencer, Freddie Steward, Jack van Poortvliet.l

Puja

Broadsheet press suggest unchanged backs. Times as well

"England are to name an unchanged back line for the Calcutta Cup match against Scotland in Edinburgh, despite the return to fitness of Bath centre Ollie Lawrence."

http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/ ... rticle/NaN

[Oakboy]

Also reporting, unsurprisingly, that Itoje will start in place of Coles. Steward is lucky to still be there, IMO, but, even in his current inconsistent form, I prefer him to Marcus at 15 (the only realistic alternative if SB won't play Slade there).