England v Ireland Sat 21 Feb at 2.10pm

[fivepointer]

He's hardly played this season. A lot to like about him but he hasnt really had much chance to press his claim. Furbank in the same boat, which is why Steward will remain at FB.

I would like to see Pollock get a start, Freeman to wing and Lawrence at centre. CCS on a 5:3 bench too.

[Mellsblue]

As I said to Danno, I wasn’t having a pop at anyone specifically but if you posting ‘Itoje should be having time off to grieve properly’ isn’t telling him how to grieve and is merely saying his form isn’t good enough then I’m very much misunderstanding. Anyway, each to their own. Let’s hope he plays, and plays well, this weekend, should he wish to.

You obviously interpret the words "how to grieve" very differently to me.
I'm not telling him, or anyone else how to grieve, I'm saying that he shouldn't be playing international rugby - because his form is shit, which is probably because he's grieving.
I'm not telling him to get over it. I'm not telling him to cry on his dog's shoulder, or to go get drunk to numb the pain, or to meditate, or see a counsellor, or any other form of "how to do X". In fact, I'm not telling him anything at all - I'm pretty sure that if the England rugby captain was a poster on RR, he'd have been busted by now, and someone would have claimed their £5

I'm telling people who aren't Itoje that, in my opinion, his rugby is suffering at the moment.

There’s obviously been a misunderstanding. I just hope that you get to meet him and tell him how to grieve properly.
Anyhoo back to rugby. We’re shit again. Huzza.

[Oakboy]

I wonder if we'll get an early team announcement again.

[Which Tyler]

I just hope that you get to meet him and tell him how to grieve properly.

Classy - nice way to de-escalate there.

[FKAS]

Neither will happen but . . . . The 6:2 has to go and constantly kicking the ball away has to stop.

Personnel-wise, stick with most of them if the tactics persist. Make quite a few changes if there's a proper re-think.

Nobody will agree with me, but I'd start Marcus at 10 and Slade at 15.

Pollock has to start. Mitchell has to play his natural game. Quirke to the bench.

Why doesn't Carpenter, a real full back, get some consideration for the 15 shirt?
He's been consistently good for a couple of seasons, played well in Argentina, has decent gas, good footwork and an attacking bent.

He does everything passably but nothing extraordinarily. He's got pace but not that much, his footwork is fine but isn't going to break any ankles, he's not small but he's not big, he's alright under the high ball but it's not a weapon etc. It would be another solid pick but without the ability of Steward to crash it up nor his 40+ caps of experience.

[p/d]

Sums up my beef of trying to get Freeman into the 13 shirt when 15 would have been far more beneficial to our World Cup hopes.

So we are left with Dazzler Daly on past glory, M Smith on from the bench and Steward on due to having 40 caps. Not forgetting, of course, Oakboys wildcard sledgehammer Slade.

[oldbackrow]

I wonder if we'll get an early team announcement again.

Unless he's already taken Arundel out of the equation already, he might delay it just in case the disciplinary overturn the first yellow card.

[Spiffy]

Neither will happen but . . . . The 6:2 has to go and constantly kicking the ball away has to stop.

Personnel-wise, stick with most of them if the tactics persist. Make quite a few changes if there's a proper re-think.

Nobody will agree with me, but I'd start Marcus at 10 and Slade at 15.

Pollock has to start. Mitchell has to play his natural game. Quirke to the bench.

Why doesn't Carpenter, a real full back, get some consideration for the 15 shirt?
He's been consistently good for a couple of seasons, played well in Argentina, has decent gas, good footwork and an attacking bent.

He does everything passably but nothing extraordinarily. He's got pace but not that much, his footwork is fine but isn't going to break any ankles, he's not small but he's not big, he's alright under the high ball but it's not a weapon etc. It would be another solid pick but without the ability of Steward to crash it up nor his 40+ caps of experience.

Well OK. But if you don't have an extraordinary player in any slot, then you have to pick from what you've got. Your description of Carpenter could also be used to describe Dingwall to a tee. Stewart might be better at crashing the ball up, but Carpenter might offer something different and more subtle in probing for gaps and linking with outside backs. RE. his pace - I think he's got decent enough gas and certainly heaps more than Stewart.

[Danno]

Nothing like a defeat to get us munching each other's throats. Wolves and all.

Personally I feel it's a coaching issue. We've seen this squad come out of the blocks and destroy anything in their path. There's no reason this should have been anything different, it's stupid to pretend that anyone other than NZ and SA have a serious edge over us, and we've taken NZ to bits in the last 6 months.

And that's not great, but the game is where it is right now.

[FKAS]

Why doesn't Carpenter, a real full back, get some consideration for the 15 shirt?
He's been consistently good for a couple of seasons, played well in Argentina, has decent gas, good footwork and an attacking bent.

He does everything passably but nothing extraordinarily. He's got pace but not that much, his footwork is fine but isn't going to break any ankles, he's not small but he's not big, he's alright under the high ball but it's not a weapon etc. It would be another solid pick but without the ability of Steward to crash it up nor his 40+ caps of experience.

Well OK. But if you don't have an extraordinary player in any slot, then you have to pick from what you've got. Your description of Carpenter could also be used to describe Dingwall to a tee. Stewart might be better at crashing the ball up, but Carpenter might offer something different and more subtle in probing for gaps and linking with outside backs. RE. his pace - I think he's got decent enough gas and certainly heaps more than Stewart.

It does sum up Dingwall, Steward doesn't have massive USP since the law changes over that description either. Carpenter isn't that fast, obviously quicker than Steward but slower than the England wingers. His link play is also a downgrade on Steward. It would be a selection that doesn't really answer any of the England problems whilst also dropping in a rookie to the England backline.

In the summer he played Vs France A and the USA so a start Vs Ireland would be a significant ramp in terms of international experience.

[Oakboy]

Nothing like a defeat to get us munching each other's throats. Wolves and all.

Personally I feel it's a coaching issue. We've seen this squad come out of the blocks and destroy anything in their path. There's no reason this should have been anything different, it's stupid to pretend that anyone other than NZ and SA have a serious edge over us, and we've taken NZ to bits in the last 6 months.

And that's not great, but the game is where it is right now.

I certainly agree that the coaching was an issue but individuals who fail badly at crunch moments must be vulnerable too. I can forgive Genge his try-conceding moment because he did his best and failed. I cannot excuse Ford for his when it was such a game-losing lack of judgement, the specific attribute at which he is supposed to excel. Ford 'does not become a bad player overnight' but when it really mattered he mistook 'black for white'. Should he continue to be selected because he does not make such mistakes when NOT under maximum pressure?

[Danno]

Nothing like a defeat to get us munching each other's throats. Wolves and all.

Personally I feel it's a coaching issue. We've seen this squad come out of the blocks and destroy anything in their path. There's no reason this should have been anything different, it's stupid to pretend that anyone other than NZ and SA have a serious edge over us, and we've taken NZ to bits in the last 6 months.

And that's not great, but the game is where it is right now.

I certainly agree that the coaching was an issue but individuals who fail badly at crunch moments must be vulnerable too. I can forgive Genge his try-conceding moment because he did his best and failed. I cannot excuse Ford for his when it was such a game-losing lack of judgement, the specific attribute at which he is supposed to excel. Ford 'does not become a bad player overnight' but when it really mattered he mistook 'black for white'. Should he continue to be selected because he does not make such mistakes when NOT under maximum pressure?

I think the only players that came out with any credit at Scottish Gas!! Murrayfield were Chessum and Earl.

Mitchell and Ford (and Dingwall at least once) were absolutely guilty of hoofing the leather off it, but that's still down to coaching and tactics, to my mind. I don't know why we're so frightened of having the ball for more than 28 seconds. It's infuriating.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I wonder if we'll get an early team announcement again.

Unless he's already taken Arundel out of the equation already, he might delay it just in case the disciplinary overturn the first yellow card.

They bloody should do! And I'm not sure if a two yellow red carries a ban or not anyway, but in this instance it really shouldn't.

[Danno]

On reflection we feel really lightweight in the backs. Mitchell can have a snipe, Freeman is obviously excellent and Arundell is pure speed, but when Ford, Dingwall, Roebuck and Steward are offering little to nothing in terms of carrying or evasion, that's a lot of lost threat.

[p/d]

On reflection we feel really lightweight in the backs. Mitchell can have a snipe, Freeman is obviously excellent and Arundell is pure speed, but when Ford, Dingwall, Roebuck and Steward are offering little to nothing in terms of carrying or evasion, that's a lot of lost threat.

And how much of a grip has Wigglesworth got on Blackett's wrists?

I thought we saw something new and exciting on our trip to Argentina.

[Banquo]

On reflection we feel really lightweight in the backs. Mitchell can have a snipe, Freeman is obviously excellent and Arundell is pure speed, but when Ford, Dingwall, Roebuck and Steward are offering little to nothing in terms of carrying or evasion, that's a lot of lost threat.

well you are lightweight if there are only 6 of you for half an hour....

[Danno]

On reflection we feel really lightweight in the backs. Mitchell can have a snipe, Freeman is obviously excellent and Arundell is pure speed, but when Ford, Dingwall, Roebuck and Steward are offering little to nothing in terms of carrying or evasion, that's a lot of lost threat.

well you are lightweight if there are only 6 of you for half an hour....

Ha, indeed. I think the point remains valid though. We've had a bit of a reality check after beating Argentina and the ABs and I'm curious to see how we respond. Who knows where to start though, every player on Saturday can do a lot better than that.

[TheDasher]

I just hope Arundell get's another shot when back from ban/whatever happens. He's so talented - the yellow card was crazy and the second error was a brain-fart, he messed up. He should offer so much more and will if given the chance. As I've said before, I'd try him at FB at some stage/bench as back three cover - he played so well there for London Irish/England age grade.

As it stands, at 15, I'd pick Hendy, who should be in the squad. But he isn't...

Alas - Steward to stay at 15
Roebuck
Lawrence
Ojomoh - (or Atkinson. Dingwall good but Atkinson/Ojomoh better. Not sure why Ojomoh was dropped after the Argie game as I've said before)
Freeman
Finn Smith (as have said - Ford can be class. But he can let you down, hence why he has never been the permanent man at 10. Finn Smith is the man - shouldn't have lost the shirt in the first place)
Mitchell

Earl
Underhill/Curry
Pepper
Chessum
Itoje
Hayes
George
Rodd

Genge
LCD
Davison
Coles
Pollock
CCS
Quirke (is he fit?)
Marcus

[Epaminondas Pules]

Arundell's hearing is today. Apparently two yellows doesn't automatically mean a ban, but the hearing indicates they're going for one. The first offence was a technical one (and technically wrong); the second yellow was fair dinkum, but only ever a yellow as Kleyn landed on his side. Hopefully common sense is seen. But this is the citing process so I fully a expect a six month ban.

EDIT: Apparently though, in a hearing you CANNOT challenge a yellow for a technical offence, but can challenge a yellow for foul play.

[Epaminondas Pules]

He's free to play against Ireland! Common sense wins for today!

Deemed that the yellows were for completely different offences and that the in game red card was sanction enough.

[Banquo]

I just hope Arundell get's another shot when back from ban/whatever happens. He's so talented - the yellow card was crazy and the second error was a brain-fart, he messed up. He should offer so much more and will if given the chance. As I've said before, I'd try him at FB at some stage/bench as back three cover - he played so well there for London Irish/England age grade.

As it stands, at 15, I'd pick Hendy, who should be in the squad. But he isn't...

Alas - Steward to stay at 15
Roebuck
Lawrence
Ojomoh - (or Atkinson. Dingwall good but Atkinson/Ojomoh better. Not sure why Ojomoh was dropped after the Argie game as I've said before)
Freeman
Finn Smith (as have said - Ford can be class. But he can let you down, hence why he has never been the permanent man at 10. Finn Smith is the man - shouldn't have lost the shirt in the first place)
Mitchell

Earl
Underhill/Curry
Pepper
Chessum
Itoje
Hayes
George
Rodd

Genge
LCD
Davison
Coles
Pollock
CCS
Quirke (is he fit?)
Marcus

So basically sticking with the same back 7 forwards that were rinsed by Scotland, and changing 10-13 because it was down to them?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Telegraph saying Pollock to start, but they'e not sure where / what number.

[p/d]

He's hardly played this season. A lot to like about him but he hasnt really had much chance to press his claim. Furbank in the same boat, which is why Steward will remain at FB.

I would like to see Pollock get a start, Freeman to wing and Lawrence at centre. CCS on a 5:3 bench too.

I can''t look much past this. Huge Atkinson fan but dont see the change at 12 an important one at this stage.

I like Roebuck alot but he looked as headless as Nene did when he came on for France

[Mikey Brown]

Arundell's hearing is today. Apparently two yellows doesn't automatically mean a ban, but the hearing indicates they're going for one. The first offence was a technical one (and technically wrong); the second yellow was fair dinkum, but only ever a yellow as Kleyn landed on his side. Hopefully common sense is seen. But this is the citing process so I fully a expect a six month ban.

EDIT: Apparently though, in a hearing you CANNOT challenge a yellow for a technical offence, but can challenge a yellow for foul play.

The idea of him getting a ban for either is crazy though. I wouldn't even have thought a red for 2 yellows automatically requires a hearing. That knee in the face was probably lesson enough.

The more I see the first yellow back, the more I think it was actually justified - though it's hard to see exactly how it is the ball flies out of the ruck.

[TheDasher]

I just hope Arundell get's another shot when back from ban/whatever happens. He's so talented - the yellow card was crazy and the second error was a brain-fart, he messed up. He should offer so much more and will if given the chance. As I've said before, I'd try him at FB at some stage/bench as back three cover - he played so well there for London Irish/England age grade.

As it stands, at 15, I'd pick Hendy, who should be in the squad. But he isn't...

Alas - Steward to stay at 15
Roebuck
Lawrence
Ojomoh - (or Atkinson. Dingwall good but Atkinson/Ojomoh better. Not sure why Ojomoh was dropped after the Argie game as I've said before)
Freeman
Finn Smith (as have said - Ford can be class. But he can let you down, hence why he has never been the permanent man at 10. Finn Smith is the man - shouldn't have lost the shirt in the first place)
Mitchell

Earl
Underhill/Curry
Pepper
Chessum
Itoje
Hayes
George
Rodd

Genge
LCD
Davison
Coles
Pollock
CCS
Quirke (is he fit?)
Marcus

So basically sticking with the same back 7 forwards that were rinsed by Scotland, and changing 10-13 because it was down to them?

Earl is our best number 8. Curry/Underhill have credit in the bank as does Pepper - the back row has been a successful unit/element in the side over the past 13 games. Chessum (as I've said for years) is a great player, probably our best lock and I suspect will be our captain. Itoje is probably going to be pretty miffed with things... I'd let him let off some steam vs Ireland. Pollock is excellent, CCS wasn't playing against Scotland.

Ford was poor against Scotland. I have always felt that he's hugely talented and is capable of stringing together a run of great form. But I think Finn Smith is a better all-round player and we should've stuck with him as 1st choice. Dingwall is arguably not in our top 3 12s and Freeman who I think has a future at 13 concerns me with how he doesn't even look to the winger to give the ball, oh and we've lost Feyi-Waboso and potentially Arundell and Freeman is a world-class winger. Oh and Lawrence is too good to leave out.

I think those changes make us stronger.

Vs Scotland, the weaker side played better than the stronger side. The 30 mins of yellow card time and the way Scotland to their credit got the ball wide so quickly and well in that time was a killer compounded massively with Genge's freak mistake and Ford's charge-down try.

We made three/four howling errors and then through pressure and arguably a lack of leadership, the little mistakes were flowing too.

I find it odd that if taken in the round (attack and defence) people think Ford is better than F Smith, that Dingwall is better than Ojomoh and Atkinson and that Freeman shouldn't go to the wing with Lawrence back in at 13 as Feyi Waboso is injured.

What would you do? Change the back 7 forwards and keep Ford, Dingwall, Freeman in that order?