England v Ireland Sat 21 Feb at 2.10pm

[p/d]

Problem is, do you think any of the players you want to bring in will be intstructed to play any different to those replaced?

If we want 'a point of difference' then Pollock and M Smith come in.

[TheDasher]

The way they've been instructed to play won us 12 games in a row prior to Scotland.

There were some freak occurrences in the game that absolutely slammed the pressure on us against a highly motivated and aggressive side.

Pollock can start, he's a wonderful player BUT, he's not as good an 8 as Earl overall at this moment. Earl is phenomenal let's be honest - all this nonsense about his size - he's an incredible athlete.

Vs Ireland over the last ten years the breakdown has always been an absolute scrap. Admittedly they're not playing like that at the moment but I think the muscle of Curry/Underhill starting and taking the sting out of things might help. I'd be tempted with one of them starting, emptying the tank over 40 and starting Pollock in the second half, at 41 mins.

Marcus is at this moment made for the bench surely? Can cover 10 and 15 and is like Pollock a difference maker to change things up - just a littler earlier perhaps. If I was his career coach I think I'd get him to practice 9 a bit... covering 9, 10 and 15 would help his cause.

[Oakboy]

Problem is, do you think any of the players you want to bring in will be intstructed to play any different to those replaced?

If we want 'a point of difference' then Pollock and M Smith come in.

Quite, with Slade at FB and Quirke on the bench for the same reason.

[Scrumhead]

The way they've been instructed to play won us 12 games in a row prior to Scotland.

There were some freak occurrences in the game that absolutely slammed the pressure on us against a highly motivated and aggressive side.

Pollock can start, he's a wonderful player BUT, he's not as good an 8 as Earl overall at this moment. Earl is phenomenal let's be honest - all this nonsense about his size - he's an incredible athlete.

Vs Ireland over the last ten years the breakdown has always been an absolute scrap. Admittedly they're not playing like that at the moment but I think the muscle of Curry/Underhill starting and taking the sting out of things might help. I'd be tempted with one of them starting, emptying the tank over 40 and starting Pollock in the second half, at 41 mins.

Marcus is at this moment made for the bench surely? Can cover 10 and 15 and is like Pollock a difference maker to change things up - just a littler earlier perhaps. If I was his career coach I think I'd get him to practice 9 a bit... covering 9, 10 and 15 would help his cause.

Agree with lot of this. There’s no two ways about it - we were shit against Scotland.

However, I genuinely believe that if the drop goal had gone over to bring the score to 24-16, we would have gone on to win.

The majority of what I’m seeing feels like a huge knee jerk reaction.

I wouldn’t make too many changes, I’d just be making no bones about the fact that we need to see a response for the remainder of the tournament.

I’d far rather we’d won, but perhaps we’ll look back at the Scotland result as a useful reality check.

[p/d]

The way they've been instructed to play won us 12 games in a row prior to Scotland.

There were some freak occurrences in the game that absolutely slammed the pressure on us against a highly motivated and aggressive side.

Pollock can start, he's a wonderful player BUT, he's not as good an 8 as Earl overall at this moment. Earl is phenomenal let's be honest - all this nonsense about his size - he's an incredible athlete.

Vs Ireland over the last ten years the breakdown has always been an absolute scrap. Admittedly they're not playing like that at the moment but I think the muscle of Curry/Underhill starting and taking the sting out of things might help. I'd be tempted with one of them starting, emptying the tank over 40 and starting Pollock in the second half, at 41 mins.

Marcus is at this moment made for the bench surely? Can cover 10 and 15 and is like Pollock a difference maker to change things up - just a littler earlier perhaps. If I was his career coach I think I'd get him to practice 9 a bit... covering 9, 10 and 15 would help his cause.

Sorry Dasher, not disagreeing with you on that. Sort of saying no point changing the pack nor actually starting M Smith (have said a number of times about him covering 9). But Marcus and Pollock starting or on bench gives us that point of difference. Last week bringing Finn on at 12 was just meh

[fivepointer]

England head coach Steve Borthwick has made three changes to his starting XV.

Henry Pollock will make his first Test start, while British and Irish Lion Tom Curry also comes into the starting team.

Centre Ollie Lawrence returns after missing out on selection for Saturday's crushing defeat by Scotland at Murrayfield.

Captain Maro Itoje will win his 100th cap.

England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Dingwall, Arundell; Ford, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Heyes, Itoje, Chessum, T Curry, Earl, Pollock.

Replacements: George, Rodd, Davison, Coles, Pepper, Underhill, Van Poortvliet, M Smith

[p/d]

Excellent.

[TheDasher]

The way they've been instructed to play won us 12 games in a row prior to Scotland.

There were some freak occurrences in the game that absolutely slammed the pressure on us against a highly motivated and aggressive side.

Pollock can start, he's a wonderful player BUT, he's not as good an 8 as Earl overall at this moment. Earl is phenomenal let's be honest - all this nonsense about his size - he's an incredible athlete.

Vs Ireland over the last ten years the breakdown has always been an absolute scrap. Admittedly they're not playing like that at the moment but I think the muscle of Curry/Underhill starting and taking the sting out of things might help. I'd be tempted with one of them starting, emptying the tank over 40 and starting Pollock in the second half, at 41 mins.

Marcus is at this moment made for the bench surely? Can cover 10 and 15 and is like Pollock a difference maker to change things up - just a littler earlier perhaps. If I was his career coach I think I'd get him to practice 9 a bit... covering 9, 10 and 15 would help his cause.

Sorry Dasher, not disagreeing with you on that. Sort of saying no point changing the pack nor actually starting M Smith (have said a number of times about him covering 9). But Marcus and Pollock starting or on bench gives us that point of difference. Last week bringing Finn on at 12 was just meh

Don't apologise, totally get it. Agreed!

[Oakboy]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

[LongForgotten]

I'm a big fan of Underhill but not someone I'd particularly want as a replacement.

Interesting to see the Freeman at 13 experiment paused/over, wonder if that's because Roebuck has looked so rusty.

[TheDasher]

England head coach Steve Borthwick has made three changes to his starting XV.

Henry Pollock will make his first Test start, while British and Irish Lion Tom Curry also comes into the starting team.

Centre Ollie Lawrence returns after missing out on selection for Saturday's crushing defeat by Scotland at Murrayfield.

Captain Maro Itoje will win his 100th cap.

England: Steward; Freeman, Lawrence, Dingwall, Arundell; Ford, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Heyes, Itoje, Chessum, T Curry, Earl, Pollock.

Replacements: George, Rodd, Davison, Coles, Pepper, Underhill, Van Poortvliet, M Smith

Happy with back-row, locks, front row (would switch George and LCD), not happy with 10, 12!

MVP brings more zip and threat than Spencer so that's good. Not sure Underhill is a bench player to be honest... starts or nowt in my view, CCS or some other battering ram would've been better.

And again, hurts that Finn Smith isn't starting but I'll stop moaning about that now I promise.

[TheDasher]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

Just posted that I would stop talking about F Smith omission but you've lured me in...

This is the wrong call, he's picking the wrong 10 and I'm convinced of it.

[Oakboy]

I'm a big fan of Underhill but not someone I'd particularly want as a replacement.

Interesting to see the Freeman at 13 experiment paused/over, wonder if that's because Roebuck has looked so rusty.

6:2 makes even less sense with Underhill AND Pepper on the bench.

I think Ireland will be quite happy to attack and defend against Ford, Dingwall and Lawrence.

[p/d]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

[Oakboy]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

Do you think the team selected will beat Ireland?

[fivepointer]

Minimal changes which is probably right.
I think the BR balance is out of kilter with the 5 selected. CCS would give us something a bit different. Good to see JvP in the 23 and Marcus over Fin makes sense in that he is a bit more flexible. I would like an extra back on the bench but that isnt the way SB wants to go.
I'm not unhappy about Freeman shifting to the wing and Lawrence coming back in.
Vote of confidence in a number of players, notably Arundell and Itoje.

[Danno]

The bench is just weird

[Oakboy]

Minimal changes which is probably right.
I think the BR balance is out of kilter with the 5 selected. CCS would give us something a bit different. Good to see JvP in the 23 and Marcus over Fin makes sense in that he is a bit more flexible. I would like an extra back on the bench but that isnt the way SB wants to go.
I'm not unhappy about Freeman shifting to the wing and Lawrence coming back in.
Vote of confidence in a number of players, notably Arundell and Itoje.

The dogmatic 6:2 strategy affects too many selections. As Arundel's departure showed, there has to be sensible back-up cover for ALL positions. Either Fin is currently a better FH option than Marcus or he isn't. Borthwick is compromising his own judgement on that to justify the 6:2. He is as wrong to do that as to plough on with 6:2 in the first place, IMO.

[Puja]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

Ford's got a lot of credit in the bank and FSmith's coming back off injury. I'm not keen on chucking out our 10 after one bad game, given he's been a major part of our recent success and has been the fulcrum of our attacking preparation in training since England met up for the first pre-season training camp.

FSmith and Spencer probably a touch unlucky to miss out, but glad that Stolid Backsbench has seen the need for using the 2 in 6:2 to actually be able to increase the pace if needed. The game on Saturday was the perfect example situation of needing to be able to give MSmith the wheel and hope that he can conjure 14 points out of nowhere (a la the Eng-NZ draw in 2022) and instead our only option to bring on was FSmith who, whilst I love him as a player, isn't the kind to turn a game single-handedly.

Same with JVP - probably not as good an all-round 9 as Spencer right now if Mitchell gets injured in the 3rd minute, but certainly a fuck of a lot better option if we need to change things up.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

[TheDasher]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

Absolutely agree. Madness. Borthers leaned in hard to the Pom squad thing, an impact bench. Now he's starting his impact loosehead and hooker and has dropped his big ball-carrier. I have real faith in SB but he does make some odd calls.

[p/d]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

Do you think the team selected will beat Ireland?

at home, we got to be favourites (so yes)

v SA. Absolutely not. I just think we have already hit our ceiling, and the in and out swap it all about but dont change anything approach makes me wonder if SB and co have been at their limit for a while.

[FKAS]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

I'd have liked to see him as the replacement lock.

Changing up the backrow I suppose gives us some fresher legs to start as well as two defensive beasts in the second half where Ireland have looked good.

[SixAndAHalf]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

Completely agree - partially rectified by adding Lawrence at 13 and having Freeman on the wing. However, I'd have CCS for either Coles or Undehill on the bench or potentially starting for Itoje depending on how the lineout would cope (might need Pepper at 6).

[SixAndAHalf]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

I like FSmith but I see him and Ford as fairly even with the current England game plan favouring Ford's strengths (i.e. kicking)