England v Ireland Sat 21 Feb at 2.10pm

[Banquo]

I just hope Arundell get's another shot when back from ban/whatever happens. He's so talented - the yellow card was crazy and the second error was a brain-fart, he messed up. He should offer so much more and will if given the chance. As I've said before, I'd try him at FB at some stage/bench as back three cover - he played so well there for London Irish/England age grade.

As it stands, at 15, I'd pick Hendy, who should be in the squad. But he isn't...

Alas - Steward to stay at 15
Roebuck
Lawrence
Ojomoh - (or Atkinson. Dingwall good but Atkinson/Ojomoh better. Not sure why Ojomoh was dropped after the Argie game as I've said before)
Freeman
Finn Smith (as have said - Ford can be class. But he can let you down, hence why he has never been the permanent man at 10. Finn Smith is the man - shouldn't have lost the shirt in the first place)
Mitchell

Earl
Underhill/Curry
Pepper
Chessum
Itoje
Hayes
George
Rodd

Genge
LCD
Davison
Coles
Pollock
CCS
Quirke (is he fit?)
Marcus

So basically sticking with the same back 7 forwards that were rinsed by Scotland, and changing 10-13 because it was down to them?

Earl is our best number 8. Curry/Underhill have credit in the bank as does Pepper - the back row has been a successful unit/element in the side over the past 13 games. Chessum (as I've said for years) is a great player, probably our best lock and I suspect will be our captain. Itoje is probably going to be pretty miffed with things... I'd let him let off some steam vs Ireland. Pollock is excellent, CCS wasn't playing against Scotland.

Ford was poor against Scotland. I have always felt that he's hugely talented and is capable of stringing together a run of great form. But I think Finn Smith is a better all-round player and we should've stuck with him as 1st choice. Dingwall is arguably not in our top 3 12s and Freeman who I think has a future at 13 concerns me with how he doesn't even look to the winger to give the ball, oh and we've lost Feyi-Waboso and potentially Arundell and Freeman is a world-class winger. Oh and Lawrence is too good to leave out.

I think those changes make us stronger.

Vs Scotland, the weaker side played better than the stronger side. The 30 mins of yellow card time and the way Scotland to their credit got the ball wide so quickly and well in that time was a killer compounded massively with Genge's freak mistake and Ford's charge-down try.

We made three/four howling errors and then through pressure and arguably a lack of leadership, the little mistakes were flowing too.

I find it odd that if taken in the round (attack and defence) people think Ford is better than F Smith, that Dingwall is better than Ojomoh and Atkinson and that Freeman shouldn't go to the wing with Lawrence back in at 13 as Feyi Waboso is injured.

What would you do? Change the back 7 forwards and keep Ford, Dingwall, Freeman in that order?

Bit of a strawman, I didn't say I'd change anyone. I kind of accept that the front five and at least one of the backrow have earned the right to keep on (tho LCD's darts weren't great), but that also applies to the other players who were part of the winning run....and to identify 10-13 as the issues in that performance are wrong imo; if you are saying you wouldn't have picked them in the first place then fair enough. But our back five forwards were significantly bettered by scotland's group.
imo Ford is still a better 10 than Fin, Dingwall is at least equal to Atkinson and Ojomoh- consistency especially, though all offer something different: Freeman v Lawrence is a tricky one- I don't esp rate Lawrence, in D particularly, but Freeman isn't a natural centre either for me, but could develop into a better one than Lawrence. I'd rather he played wing or 15 tbh tho.

Selection Backfire has steered the middle ground between us I see.

[Banquo]

Problem is, do you think any of the players you want to bring in will be intstructed to play any different to those replaced?

If we want 'a point of difference' then Pollock and M Smith come in.

Quite, with Slade at FB and Quirke on the bench for the same reason.

how is slade at 15 a point of difference, save he has barely played there? He's not quick, not elusive, and...what's he offering??

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, I don’t agree that 6:2 is inherently bad, but this bench has lost all of the balance and impact that made the Pom squad a thing. Pepper and Underhill is a stupid use of 2 bench spots.

Let’s hope Lawrence can slot straight back in.

I love how Ford swings from being universally rated as absolutely elite to being a waste of space. I’m not sure there’s ever been a player that has done this so many times at the top level. I do feel for Fin Smith but we seem to have built a huge amount of our game around Ford.

[Banquo]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

iirc Fin was first choice last 6N?

[Which Tyler]

Problem is, do you think any of the players you want to bring in will be intstructed to play any different to those replaced?

If we want 'a point of difference' then Pollock and M Smith come in.

Quite, with Slade at FB and Quirke on the bench for the same reason.

how is slade at 15 a point of difference, save he has barely played there? He's not quick, not elusive, and...what's he offering??

Well, that IS a point of difference.
Selecting someone who hasn't played a position, and hasn't shown what you'd want from someone to play that position, whilst they're approaching the end of the career, is certainly... different

[Banquo]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

agreed. I don't think fucking about with him as a lock helped him tbh He should bench instead of underhill in this configuration

[Banquo]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

Absolutely agree. Madness. Borthers leaned in hard to the Pom squad thing, an impact bench. Now he's starting his impact loosehead and hooker and has dropped his big ball-carrier. I have real faith in SB but he does make some odd calls.

ironic you've got me defending him when I have much less faith....

[Banquo]

apols, duplicate

[Mikey Brown]

Also what is Pollock like at the base of the scrum. I’m curious how we use both him and Earl in the 7/8 roles given how different Earl’s strengths are to Underhill’s.

[p/d]

Problem is, do you think any of the players you want to bring in will be intstructed to play any different to those replaced?

If we want 'a point of difference' then Pollock and M Smith come in.

Quite, with Slade at FB and Quirke on the bench for the same reason.

how is slade at 15 a point of difference, save he has barely played there? He's not quick, not elusive, and...what's he offering??

Just for clarity, Dors is singlehandedly rowing across the atlantic with this one.

[Banquo]

Quite, with Slade at FB and Quirke on the bench for the same reason.

how is slade at 15 a point of difference, save he has barely played there? He's not quick, not elusive, and...what's he offering??

Well, that IS a point of difference.
Selecting someone who hasn't played a position, and hasn't shown what you'd want from someone to play that position, whilst they're approaching the end of the career, is certainly... different

aye

[p/d]

What did Fin do to get dumped from the 23 compared with Ford?

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

iirc Fin was first choice last 6N?

Indeed. But I was really referencing this one.

[Banquo]

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

Do you think the team selected will beat Ireland?

at home, we got to be favourites (so yes)

v SA. Absolutely not. I just think we have already hit our ceiling, and the in and out swap it all about but dont change anything approach makes me wonder if SB and co have been at their limit for a while.

Hmm, that's where I am with SB, and credit him for getting us winning, with a semblance of a plan, which looked like it was starting to develop in argentina and the autumn, but he maybe reverting to statto type...Blackett needs to have a stronger voice I'd say; whether this coaching team can elevate the overall performance more is a great question, and i'd still think we lack top players in too many places for any coaching team.

[Banquo]

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

Do you think the team selected will beat Ireland?

at home, we got to be favourites (so yes)

v SA. Absolutely not. I just think we have already hit our ceiling, and the in and out swap it all about but dont change anything approach makes me wonder if SB and co have been at their limit for a while.

Hmm, that's where I am with SB, and credit him for getting us winning, with a semblance of a plan, which looked like it was starting to develop in argentina and the autumn, but he maybe reverting to statto type...Blackett needs to have a stronger voice I'd say; whether this coaching team can elevate the overall performance more is a great question, and i'd still think we lack top players in too many places for any coaching team.

[Banquo]

I would start Fin over Ford. Borthwick and co won't. I wouldnt have Fin on a 6:2 bench. Borthwick and co would.

iirc Fin was first choice last 6N?

Indeed. But I was really referencing this one.

So I think if he was /had been in great nick, he could well be starting: he was unlucky to be selected for the Lions in hindsight.

[Oakboy]

Quite, with Slade at FB and Quirke on the bench for the same reason.

how is slade at 15 a point of difference, save he has barely played there? He's not quick, not elusive, and...what's he offering??

Just for clarity, Dors is singlehandedly rowing across the atlantic with this one.

He's the closest we have to Furbank, and, unlike many he is in cracking form. Slade has had his day at 13 but he could provide the required hands and boot that we need right now at 15. As for him not being quick, compared with whom? IFW or Arundel, no. Steward, Dingwall or Ford, yes. As for the position being strange to him, not so. He has looked comfortable for England there before.

[Banquo]

how is slade at 15 a point of difference, save he has barely played there? He's not quick, not elusive, and...what's he offering??

Just for clarity, Dors is singlehandedly rowing across the atlantic with this one.

He's the closest we have to Furbank, and, unlike many he is in cracking form. Slade has had his day at 13 but he could provide the required hands and boot that we need right now at 15. As for him not being quick, compared with whom? IFW or Arundel, no. Steward, Dingwall or Ford, yes. As for the position being strange to him, not so. He has looked comfortable for England there before.

Well its a hill, for sure...

[Which Tyler]

He's the closest we have to Furbank,

Only if you forget that DeGlanville and Carpenter exist, and Lane, and... A fair few others (sadly Donoghue still injured)

[Puja]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

I'd have liked to see him as the replacement lock.

Changing up the backrow I suppose gives us some fresher legs to start as well as two defensive beasts in the second half where Ireland have looked good.

Coles has been excellent so far, so I'd not be in favour of him getting dropped. I can see an argument for him replacing one of the backrow, but I'm not sure more poor decisions would've been the thing needed in the Scotland game.

Puja

[FKAS]

Not sure why we think CCS is surplus to requirements. We lacked carriers.

I'd have liked to see him as the replacement lock.

Changing up the backrow I suppose gives us some fresher legs to start as well as two defensive beasts in the second half where Ireland have looked good.

Coles has been excellent so far, so I'd not be in favour of him getting dropped. I can see an argument for him replacing one of the backrow, but I'm not sure more poor decisions would've been the thing needed in the Scotland game.

Puja

Coles has been very good. It would be harsh on him but at the same time he's not an impact player.

[Puja]

I'd have liked to see him as the replacement lock.

Changing up the backrow I suppose gives us some fresher legs to start as well as two defensive beasts in the second half where Ireland have looked good.

Coles has been excellent so far, so I'd not be in favour of him getting dropped. I can see an argument for him replacing one of the backrow, but I'm not sure more poor decisions would've been the thing needed in the Scotland game.

Puja

Coles has been very good. It would be harsh on him but at the same time he's not an impact player.

I'd disagree - Coles is an excellent impact player. Not the same kind as CCS, but if the lineout is going badly he can fix that, he is supposed to be one of our best scrummagers, and he's very mobile and good in the loose. If we're chasing a game and looking to up the tempo (which would match with JVP and MSmith), then he's a very good option.

Puja

[p/d]

Coles aint the future. Hard knocks and all that but we lack physicality in key areas. CCS should be backed otherwise we risk the return of Ewels.

[Puja]

Coles aint the future. Hard knocks and all that but we lack physicality in key areas. CCS should be backed otherwise we risk the return of Ewels.

26 year old, 6ft9, 19st lock, who is probably the form Premiership lock and who has looked very good for England in his 14 caps so far, is not the future?

I like CCS, but let's see him actually play like he did in 2024 again, rather than just hoping that he'll suddenly do it out of nowhere if we just keep chucking him in.

Puja

[Buggaluggs]

This will be a fascinating game. As a Welshman, I flattered myself that Wales aren't that bad and England really are that good. Then Scotland really took England down a peg or two. Then Ireland, poor against France (or maybe whats expected against a great France team), scrappy against Italy. Who knows what this game will bring, but I anticipate a belter and a few surprises.

[p/d]

Coles aint the future. Hard knocks and all that but we lack physicality in key areas. CCS should be backed otherwise we risk the return of Ewels.

26 year old, 6ft9, 19st lock, who is probably the form Premiership lock and who has looked very good for England in his 14 caps so far, is not the future?

I like CCS, but let's see him actually play like he did in 2024 again, rather than just hoping that he'll suddenly do it out of nowhere if we just keep chucking him in.

Puja

Nope. He is like Adam Beard, but without the kicking game.