SA, France, Italy & Ireland bid to host World Cup X

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I have worked selling and managing group tours of Ireland and Scotland for a year(Horrible Job).

There are very big logistic issues with a World Cup in Ireland. Especially Accommodation-Wise (size and quality). Also, how many big Stadiums are there? I can't see Ireland hosting by themselves. I believe NZ was the last "small destination" hosting a World cup.

France has big issues security wise and hosted it 8 years ago and seem an unlikely candidate to me.

SA is probably the best bet IMO but they have quite a lot of New Stadiums. (my money would be on them hosting).

EDIT: Just read about SA gov... Not too sure what is going to happen.

There are plenty of big GAA stadiums. I don't know what standard they might be though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... y_capacity

Some are already grand. Others will get spruced up if we're hosting.

Ireland is quite hard to get round by public transport, though if that's what you want to do you can keep yourself to Dublin and Belfast easy enough and there'll be plenty of games in those 2. Also I wouldn't be expect huuge numbers to come and tour like NZ because there's no need when you can fly in and out from all of Europe. I wouldn't reckon that it's any harder to get round by public transport than NZ. Or SA. I don't imagin eit has fewer hotel spaces than NZ. Rather like NZ I suspect a lot of people will go for camper vans and camping. I suspect a lot of people will offer rooms in their houses. In the days of airbnb I cannot imagine that in 7 years time it's going to be difficult to accommodate enough people.

[Adder]

I have worked selling and managing group tours of Ireland and Scotland for a year(Horrible Job).

There are very big logistic issues with a World Cup in Ireland. Especially Accommodation-Wise (size and quality). Also, how many big Stadiums are there? I can't see Ireland hosting by themselves. I believe NZ was the last "small destination" hosting a World cup.

France has big issues security wise and hosted it 8 years ago and seem an unlikely candidate to me.

SA is probably the best bet IMO but they have quite a lot of New Stadiums. (my money would be on them hosting).

EDIT: Just read about SA gov... Not too sure what is going to happen.

There are plenty of big GAA stadiums. I don't know what standard they might be though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... y_capacity

Some are already grand. Others will get spruced up if we're hosting.

Ireland is quite hard to get round by public transport, though if that's what you want to do you can keep yourself to Dublin and Belfast easy enough and there'll be plenty of games in those 2. Also I wouldn't be expect huuge numbers to come and tour like NZ because there's no need when you can fly in and out from all of Europe. I wouldn't reckon that it's any harder to get round by public transport than NZ. Or SA. I don't imagin eit has fewer hotel spaces than NZ. Rather like NZ I suspect a lot of people will go for camper vans and camping. I suspect a lot of people will offer rooms in their houses. In the days of airbnb I cannot imagine that in 7 years time it's going to be difficult to accommodate enough people.

NZ was very isolated which reduced the influx of visitors. Dublin is crazy difficult to get accomodation in.
I am not denying that Ireland is a great Destination. Just pointing out that we were already talking about the "perfect storm" situation 1 year ago, and it has not got any easier (from what my ex colleagues are saying). This will have to be addressed.

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[Eugene Wrayburn]

There are plenty of big GAA stadiums. I don't know what standard they might be though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... y_capacity

Some are already grand. Others will get spruced up if we're hosting.

Ireland is quite hard to get round by public transport, though if that's what you want to do you can keep yourself to Dublin and Belfast easy enough and there'll be plenty of games in those 2. Also I wouldn't be expect huuge numbers to come and tour like NZ because there's no need when you can fly in and out from all of Europe. I wouldn't reckon that it's any harder to get round by public transport than NZ. Or SA. I don't imagin eit has fewer hotel spaces than NZ. Rather like NZ I suspect a lot of people will go for camper vans and camping. I suspect a lot of people will offer rooms in their houses. In the days of airbnb I cannot imagine that in 7 years time it's going to be difficult to accommodate enough people.

NZ was very isolated which reduced the influx of visitors. Dublin is crazy difficult to get accomodation in.
I am not denying that Ireland is a great Destination. Just pointing out that we were already talking about the "perfect storm" situation 1 year ago, and it has not got any easier (from what my ex colleagues are saying). This will have to be addressed.

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I've never found Dublin even vaguely difficult to get accommodation in unlike, say, Cardiff. Even last minute with big match on.

ETA the thing with NZ being remote is that people who came were always going to stay for a while - except for a couple of people I met who were flying in and out from Oz.

[rowan]

France and Italy are big enough to Host a World cup on their own.
Also, if Nice was once Italian, the French Education and military service has wiped out that part of their culture. Btw French Rugby stronghold is in the South West, not South East. South East is the Racist stronghold of France., mainly due to all the pensioners living there.

Perpignan, Toulouse and Lyon are all in the South East, and Marseille is the second biggest city so often gets called upon to host major fixtures. South East France shares a common border with northern Italy, which is the stronghold of the game in that country. Just seems like a perfect fit for a jointly-staged World Cup to me, squeezing Rome in there as well. Yes, I've read the articles about Italy's withdrawal from the race for 2023 and it seems they believed it would not be financially viable. Anyway, I'd be happy to see them back as a candidate in the future, preferably as an independent candidate, but if it's a joint bid with France that would work for me too. That's all I'm saying. Similarly, I hope to see the US make a bid for one of the tournaments in the 2030s, whether they go it alone or couple up with Canada for the purpose.

I can't see Ireland hosting by themselves

Me neither, and that's one of my main reasons for opposing them. We've heard all the one-nation promises before.

As a Frenchman, I probably have a different perception of what the South West is. Pepignan and Montpellier are either the great South or South East. South East is From Marseilles onwards. France and Italy have complicated administratons and incredibly big Egos., it would be a nightmare organising such a World Cup. Very Scenic Holiday to Organise though.

Really, I've travelled through that region myself. South East France reminded me of NZ there were so many rugby goal-posts around, while again the strength of the Italian game seems to be from Rome northway. So that's a region about the size of England encompassing an awful lot of rugby hotbeds. &, yeh, the tourist attractions are unsurpassed as well. Meanwhile, I understand there's a new high-speed train operating between Turin and Lyon these days. So you get across the entire combined region in barely a few hours. Give the final to Milan or Rome, of course, and leave Paris right out of it

[Adder]

Some are already grand. Others will get spruced up if we're hosting.

Ireland is quite hard to get round by public transport, though if that's what you want to do you can keep yourself to Dublin and Belfast easy enough and there'll be plenty of games in those 2. Also I wouldn't be expect huuge numbers to come and tour like NZ because there's no need when you can fly in and out from all of Europe. I wouldn't reckon that it's any harder to get round by public transport than NZ. Or SA. I don't imagin eit has fewer hotel spaces than NZ. Rather like NZ I suspect a lot of people will go for camper vans and camping. I suspect a lot of people will offer rooms in their houses. In the days of airbnb I cannot imagine that in 7 years time it's going to be difficult to accommodate enough people.

NZ was very isolated which reduced the influx of visitors. Dublin is crazy difficult to get accomodation in.
I am not denying that Ireland is a great Destination. Just pointing out that we were already talking about the "perfect storm" situation 1 year ago, and it has not got any easier (from what my ex colleagues are saying). This will have to be addressed.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

I've never found Dublin even vaguely difficult to get accommodation in unlike, say, Cardiff. Even last minute with big match on.

ETA the thing with NZ being remote is that people who came were always going to stay for a while - except for a couple of people I met who were flying in and out from Oz.

As an individual it is not that hard, especially if you are willing to pay the price. For groups it is a nightmare.



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[Eugene Wrayburn]

NZ was very isolated which reduced the influx of visitors. Dublin is crazy difficult to get accomodation in.
I am not denying that Ireland is a great Destination. Just pointing out that we were already talking about the "perfect storm" situation 1 year ago, and it has not got any easier (from what my ex colleagues are saying). This will have to be addressed.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

I've never found Dublin even vaguely difficult to get accommodation in unlike, say, Cardiff. Even last minute with big match on.

ETA the thing with NZ being remote is that people who came were always going to stay for a while - except for a couple of people I met who were flying in and out from Oz.

As an individual it is not that hard, especially if you are willing to pay the price. For groups it is a nightmare.



Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

I've pretty much always been booking as a group in both

[Adder]

I've never found Dublin even vaguely difficult to get accommodation in unlike, say, Cardiff. Even last minute with big match on.

ETA the thing with NZ being remote is that people who came were always going to stay for a while - except for a couple of people I met who were flying in and out from Oz.

As an individual it is not that hard, especially if you are willing to pay the price. For groups it is a nightmare.



Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

I've pretty much always been booking as a group in both

What can I say? I believe my old company ia recruiting .
btw group is usually 10 people +

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[Eugene Wrayburn]

As an individual it is not that hard, especially if you are willing to pay the price. For groups it is a nightmare.



Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

I've pretty much always been booking as a group in both

What can I say? I believe my old company ia recruiting .
btw group is usually 10 people +

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Ah of course. Mine is usually 8. I don't think accommodation will be a problem.

[rowan]

Only 3/12 stadiums included in the Italian bid were south of Rome - Napoli, Bari & Palermo, while only 5/12 venues France are expected to name are in the northern half of the country - Paris (2), Lille, Lens & Nantes. This means if a World Cup were jointly hosted by northern Italy (including Rome) and southern France, 16 of those collective 24 venues could be utilized. Just saying...

France Italy
Paris (81,338) Milan (81,277)
Marseilles (67,500) Rome (72,698)
Lyon (58,212) Naples (60,240)
Lille (50,186) Bari (58,248)
Paris (47,000) Florence (47,290)
Bordeaux (42,052) Palermo (37,619)
St. Etienne (41,965) Bologna (38,279)
Lens (38,223) Genoa (36,599)
Nantes (37,473) Padua (32,420)
Nice (35,624) Rome (30,000)
Toulouse (33,150) Torino (27,958)
Montpellier (32,900) Udine (25,144)

[rowan]

So, presuming it were the same format, they could stage the final in Rome, semis in Milan & Marseille, 3rd-place in Lyon, & quarters in those 4 venues as well (or perhaps Bordeaux & Florence instead of Milan and Lyon). The groups could then be based in north-east Italy (Milan, Padua, Bologna & Udine), north-west Italy (Rome, Florence, Genoa, Torino), Mediterranean France (Marseille, Montpelier, Nice & perhaps Perpignan), and south-central France (Bordeaux, Lyon, Toulouse & St Etienne).

Were it expanded to 24, as has been mooted, then you could have your octavos (2nd round) in Rome, Milan, Florence, Genoa, Marseille, Lyon, Bordeaux and Toulouse, & your 6 groups in 1 - Rome, Bologna, Florence, 2 - Milan, Padua, Udine, 3 - Genoa, Torino, Parma, 4 - Marseille, Montpelier, Nice, 5 - Lyon, St Etienne, Grenoble, 6 - Bordeaux, Bayonne, Toulouse

[onlynameleft]

Appreciate I am late to the party but I wonder if anyone thinking Perpignan and Toulouse are in south eastern France has ever been or even looked at a map of France. Toulon is in southeastern France, admittedly. As is Lyon (presumably referring to Clermont). I have always seen the west and southwest as the rugby core of France. Also the Alps are in the way of Italy?

[rowan]

I'd always thought the strength of French rugby was in the south in general - and I've visited both east & west regions. I know Toulon and Perpignan are two powerful clubs in the south-east anyway. & I don't think the Alps get in the way too much, since I travelled overland from Barcelona to Rome without encountering any mountains....

[Digby]

I know Toulon and Perpignan are two powerful clubs in the south-east anyway

Did someone move Perpignan?

[rowan]

Ok, looking at a map I see you're right about that. It's more central than east. I always think of it as east as I visited it from Spain, and had to go up the east coast to the right of the Pyrenees to get there. It's actually Catalan and regards Barcelona as its 'other' capital. I was there during the first week of the 99 RWC, in fact. Great memories!

[Eugene Wrayburn]

https://twitter.com/i/moments/798508172596101120

[Lizard]

Wait. If Ireland end up hosting does that mean that we will have wall-to-wall BOD coverage? Replays, punditry, gurn-faced whinging etc?

I might change my vote to France.

[tigran]

Grenoble is a traditional stronghold of rugby in France as is Toulon, both in the southeast, even if Grenoble is up north..

[rowan]

Marvellous

SA Rugby has confirmed that it is on track to submit a bid to bring a “vibrant, profitable and spectacular” 2023 World Cup to South Africa.

[rowan]

Springboks legend Bryan Habana has issued his support for South Africa's 2023 Rugby World Cup bid http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/ ... rce-change

[Eugene Wrayburn]

South African in supporting South Africa's bid shocker. He does make 1 very good point:

"Ireland and France are the other contenders and they didn't have a political imposition put on them halfway through their campaign," Habana said at a Land Rover event. "No other country deals with that."

Which is reason enough not to give SA the RWC.

[rowan]

Agree, apart from your last point. The imposition will not figure in the final analysis, World Rugby has already made this clear. It's mandate is to select the best host nation based on criteria such as facilities and infrastructure, local interest in the game, economic factors (including ticketing, TV contracts and sponsorship potential), geographical location, weather conditions and so on. South Africa and France are probably ahead of Ireland in most departments, but France, of course, hosted as recently as 2007, while SA - one of the game's veritable super powers, hasn't hosted since the amateur era.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Agree, apart from your last point. The imposition will not figure in the final analysis, World Rugby has already made this clear. It's mandate is to select the best host nation based on criteria such as facilities and infrastructure, local interest in the game, economic factors (including ticketing, TV contracts and sponsorship potential), geographical location, weather conditions and so on. South Africa and France are probably ahead of Ireland in most departments, but France, of course, hosted as recently as 2007, while SA - one of the game's veritable super powers, hasn't hosted since the amateur era.

Hosting a RWC will require political support. Handing it to a country where the politicians could pull their support at any moment on a whim would be foolish. As for your evaluation of the bids we've been there already and I can't be bothered to go through it again.

[Digby]

I can't see it going anywhere but Ireland unless France pony up a lot of cash, and France probably could deliver enough cash to turn enough heads

[rowan]

Agree, apart from your last point. The imposition will not figure in the final analysis, World Rugby has already made this clear. It's mandate is to select the best host nation based on criteria such as facilities and infrastructure, local interest in the game, economic factors (including ticketing, TV contracts and sponsorship potential), geographical location, weather conditions and so on. South Africa and France are probably ahead of Ireland in most departments, but France, of course, hosted as recently as 2007, while SA - one of the game's veritable super powers, hasn't hosted since the amateur era.

Hosting a RWC will require political support. Handing it to a country where the politicians could pull their support at any moment on a whim would be foolish. As for your evaluation of the bids we've been there already and I can't be bothered to go through it again.

Yes, and I recall the WR representative clearly stating at the time that the political decisions weren't their concern and they would simply deal with the bids put in front of them according to standard criteria. But probably Ireland will get it because the Home Unions block will support them and I think the Kiwis have said they will as well. That's about all you need in this current voting set-up, which won't have changed before the 2023 decision is made, I believe.

[Which Tyler]

Wasn't one of those "standard criteria" governmental support? If that governmental support is questionable, then the bid remains hampered by that - unless I'm mis-remembering of course