Howley - stay or go?

[Sandydragon]

With the Bokke game fast approaching, this is a question that just won't go away. True, we have won 2 games during the AI thus far and might even turn over the Bokke to make this one of the best AI campaigns in recent years. Yet, whilst wins are nice, the context needs to be closely examined. The game against Australia was a disaster, they didn't have to work that hard to put us to the sword. The win over Argentina was vaguely workmanlike but nothing to get excited about and the game vs Japan was something of a moral victory, for the Japanese. Whilst England were destroying Fiji, we struggled to score with 70% possession and territory.

We all know that something is badly wrong.

So what needs to happen, is there anything that Howley can do to restore confidence in the current regime? I would suggest that the second question is easier to answer - confidence from the Welsh public is at a real low and nothing short of a convincing win over the Bokke would stop the calls for change.

But with Gatland, Howley et al having recently extended their contracts until the 2019 RWC, how can we get rid of them? To sack the whole lot would result in a huge payout; money which I don't think the WRU has. On the other hand, keeping them all in post with no change is just going to see us fall further behind. This much heralded change in playing style just isn't working - we need a whole new philosophy and the willingness to take risk, and pick players who can deliver.

Would a replacement of a few key personnel suffice? For example, could Stephen Jones be brought in for Howley, or do we need to replace Gatland as well (obviously noting the fact that he is on a sabbatical)? Would the appointment of a consultant, Graham Henry has been touted, provide some impetus? Finally, would there be talented coaches available, given the 4 year cycle that we now find ourselves in? Is all of this worth the financial cost, or is it a lesser impact compared to a half full stadium, as it was vs Australia?

What do you all think?

[stud muffin]

Personally I think we should get rid of Gatland, Howley and McBride. It may cost a lot, but if we keep playing this brand of boring ineffective rugby, we'll be playing to half empty stadiums and it will end up costing a hell of a lot more in the long term.

Garland is primarily responsible, He bought us success with this brand of rugby, but instead of evolving he thought his job was done and we're left years behind other teams once again.

There was once a time that Wales thought that if they could get parity (or close to it) in possession they would probably win. Now we can have all the possession and are basically clueless with what to do with it so end up kicking it back to the opposition.

[ALunpg]

I honestly beleive that in the long run Howley must be replaced. I do not doubt his commitment or industry of his work..but that is not what he needs. The players have to beleive he is the man with the clear vision and how to fix things.I thought his comments after the Japan match were very honest..but uninspiring even if that were the school 3rd team.

An enforced high profile consultant would just fill the pot with more debris unless they were only paid after the job was succesful...otherwise avoid like the plague.

Alternatively If Howley asks for it then it might work but I am wondering who... it could be someone less well known on the international stage but well respected in coaching circles.

I like the idea of Stephen Jones from the Scarlets..he knows the system is very effective and is fresh enough and not long away from his playing days and could spark the required change.
That said we also need someone to spark life into the pack ... as McB is not doing it from my standpoint ..we need a coach to get it working like a well oiled engine...slick effective and powerful. This may raise a few hackles ..but maybe Declan Kidney as a consultant for the pack.

Cost is a major driver for Welsh rugby and dumping Gatland after the Lions tour may be a more feasible optio at that time....still wont be cheap and may not be necessary if we turn this around in the 6N campaign.

[Sandydragon]

I don't think anything would happen this season. it would most likely take a dire 6N to get a major change, and with Gatland away perhaps all that would result is for Howley to be moved, or at least quietly told that his chances of succeeding Gatland were zero.

I think the WRU will give Gatland next season to redeem the situation, although by then we are nearly into the next RWC so it would be a big ask of a new coach to achieve much in a one season turn around.

Personally, Id make a change now and if Gatland doesn't like it then he can move on.

[Numbers]

I honestly beleive that in the long run Howley must be replaced. I do not doubt his commitment or industry of his work..but that is not what he needs. The players have to beleive he is the man with the clear vision and how to fix things.I thought his comments after the Japan match were very honest..but uninspiring even if that were the school 3rd team.

An enforced high profile consultant would just fill the pot with more debris unless they were only paid after the job was succesful...otherwise avoid like the plague.

Alternatively If Howley asks for it then it might work but I am wondering who... it could be someone less well known on the international stage but well respected in coaching circles.

I like the idea of Stephen Jones from the Scarlets..he knows the system is very effective and is fresh enough and not long away from his playing days and could spark the required change.
That said we also need someone to spark life into the pack ... as McB is not doing it from my standpoint ..we need a coach to get it working like a well oiled engine...slick effective and powerful. This may raise a few hackles ..but maybe Declan Kidney as a consultant for the pack.

Cost is a major driver for Welsh rugby and dumping Gatland after the Lions tour may be a more feasible optio at that time....still wont be cheap and may not be necessary if we turn this around in the 6N campaign.

Exactly, give the bloke the 6 nations, if we fail badly then maybe look to replace Howley, it's interesting how Shaun Edwards gets no criticism despite our leaky defence.

I don't know why we didn't start Sam Davies on Saturday or bring him on earlier in the game, ditto Giles, these were the main mistakes made imo along with selecting no backrow ball carrier, you can guarantee the coaches aren't telling the players to run sideways across the pitch.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I voted sack Gatland & Howley as I don't see much chance of improvement with either of them in place.

Of course it all depends on the costs - they may genuinely be prohibitive (are there any break clauses? Performance targets? etc).

If so, let's see what happens in the 6N. Hopefully Howley will reveal the extent of his ability, for better or worse, and hopefully the WRU will take note.

If the 6N goes badly and Howley cannot be removed cheaply, then a consultant could be brought in to work with (or above) him on attack.

(And of course, no change will be worthwhile if there are no quality replacements available at this point in the RWC cycle. I'm not sure who's out there.)


In reality, the WRU are obviously much happier with Gatland and Howley than we are, otherwise their contracts would not have been extended (again). So the only real hope for change is if Howley clearly shows he's not up to it during the course of this year (ie a continuation of what we're currently seeing...).

[wayneha50]

I voted sack the entire staff but doubt there is really any prospect of it happening or if it is even feasible. Massive blunder after blunder by the WRU - we have been in a rut for ages even with Gatland there & his first priority should be Wales not the Lions. I would happily see the Howley/McBride gone & then Gatland be told not to bother coming back.

Their contracts should never have been extended in the first place.

[ALunpg]

The most cost effective option is to give Howley more resource to fix the problem... but my problem has always been is there seems little integration between the regional coaching teams and the national team.

They dont have to have the same execution plans but lets upward integrate the best ideas into the national team. Does anyone know if there is a mechanism in place to make this work.

[WaspInWales]

Give them a few more years. Their track record speaks for itself.