The obligatory, someone was going to do it...whats you lions squad thread..and consequentially whats the Wales team left

MrK · Post by **MrK** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:33 pm

The unfortunate thing for me is I dont think that many Welsh players will get picked.

Now thats not unfortunate in the case of me wanting there to be lots of players involved, it just means that the Summer tour is likely to now include a lot of the same indviduals in positions I'd like to see some changes in.

So, my two penneth

Props : McGrath, Vunipola, Healy, Furlong, Nel, Sinkler - no Cole for me but think he will go in place of Sinkler
Hookers: Owens, Best, George - I assuming Gatland will swap George for Hartley
Locks: Launchbury, Itoje, AWJ, J Gray, Henderson - AWJ is lucky but will go, Henderson with a late dash
Back Row: Stander, O'Mahoney, Warburton, Tipuric, Vuniploa, Faletau - - Actually agree with WOL here !

9s: Murray, Webb, Young
10s: Sexton, Russell - definitely no Biggar so I hope they rest him for the Summer !
Centres : Farrell, Joseph, Teo, Payne, Henshaw/Dunbar/Ringrose (forgot Ringrose) - - dont think either of our 3 should make this.
Back 3: Daley, North, Seymour, Hogg, Nowell, Halfpenny - No Liam Williams, which is good as he can play 15 for us

If that happens I expect the team to look something like

Halfpenny, North, Joseph, Farrell, Daly, Sexton, Murray
McGrath, Best, Furlong, AWJ, Launchbury, Stander, Warburton, Vunipola

B: George, Vunipola, Sinkler, Itoje, Tipuric, Webb, Teo, Hogg.

So, that leaves us with the potential of

Evans, BALDWIN, Francis, Ball, Charteris, CRACKNELL, YOUNG, Moriaty, G DAVIES, Biggar, S EVANS, Williams, JD2, GILES, Williams
DACEY, Smith, Lee, HILL, KING, HABBERFIELD (maybe), S Davies, BECK?

hawkaye · Post by **hawkaye** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Give Kieran Williams a run out at senior level. He's good enough.

bruce · Post by **bruce** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:24 pm

Jesus, centre really is a bad position for the Lions, if that is your pick, and I think not taking arguably the best back 3 player in the NH is harsh.

You've got quite a few there who have played limited minutes this 6N, with the 6N being the only real yardstick for form I think Gatland will go with players with more time on the field under their belt with a few exceptions.

Back 3: L Williams, North, Daly, Seymour, Hogg, Halfpenny
Centres: Henshaw, Ringrose, Joseph, S Williams, JD2
10's: Sexton, Farrell
9's: Murray, Webb, Laidlaw
Back Row: B Vunipola, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Stander, O'Mahoney
Locks: Launchbury, Itoje, AWJ, J Gray, Henderson
Hookers: Best, Owens, Hartley
Props: McGrath, Furlong, Marler, Fagerson, Sinckler, Evans

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:31 pm

The Lions will get absolutely moidererd if you play Webb. Only Murrray has anywhere near the speed of getting the ball back in play to compete. Watch Perenara v Aaron Smith in last weekend's Hurricanes v Highlanders if you want to see how it's being done down here.

I would love to see a stat of the average time between the ball being available at a ruck and the half actually passing it.

hawkaye · Post by **hawkaye** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:59 pm

Sounds like Webb then.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:27 pm

A backline of Irish halves, English centres, and Welsh FB with North and Maitland* on the wings would look good.

*I believe it's now a mandatory tradition to have at least one NZ-born project player in the Lions backline, right?

Buggaluggs · Post by **Buggaluggs** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 pm

Lizard wrote:A backline of Irish halves, English centres, and Welsh FB with North and Maitland* on the wings would look good.

*I believe it's now a mandatory tradition to have at least one NZ-born project player in the Lions backline, right?

Same as the ABs. They always like to have NZ born player in the backs too

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:09 am

Buggaluggs wrote:
Lizard wrote:A backline of Irish halves, English centres, and Welsh FB with North and Maitland* on the wings would look good.

*I believe it's now a mandatory tradition to have at least one NZ-born project player in the Lions backline, right?
Same as the ABs. They always like to have NZ born player in the backs too

Ha ha. Touché.

For reals though, we capped 17 backs last year. 4 were born overseas being 23.5% which is about what you would expect given that 25.2% of all NZ residents were not born here.

NZ: Barrett, Dagg, Perenara, B Smith, Crotty, Savea, A Smith, Cruden, Lienert-Brown, Sopoaga, Moala, Ioane, McKenzie

Australia: Kerr-Barlow

Tonga: Fekitoa

Fiji: Naholo, Tamanivalu

Oddly, despite having about 250,000 people here born in the U.K., not a single one has been capped for the All Blacks since 1989 (Kipper Gallagher, and he was the first since 1954).

The rest of my bait is on the stats thread in the SHB.

Post by **Sandydragon** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:45 am

I was mulling this over earlier today. In my opinion, there are 5+3 Welsh players in the mix who have done enough to be seriously considered.

Definites, by which I mean those who are playing well enough, even if there is a lot of congestion in their position.
Owens
Warburton
Tipuric
Webb
North

I'd add to that Liam Williams who started the tournament strongly and has had a good season and Faletau who has had a good season bar injury, but is one of the most talented players the lions could pick. I don't think AWJ has done enough in what is a very competitive position, but I think he might make it on virtue of leadership and experience.

That means in most likelihood a very familiar team heading south this summer. Which means another wasted opportunity.

Numbers · Post by **Numbers** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:27 am

Lizard wrote:A backline of Irish halves, English centres, and Welsh FB with North and Maitland* on the wings would look good.

*I believe it's now a mandatory tradition to have at least one NZ-born project player in the Lions backline, right?

Maitland can't even get into Scotlands team, Anthony Watson should be on one wing I would imagine.

Son of Mathonwy · Post by **Son of Mathonwy** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:43 pm

I just hope Gatland takes Biggar. Or even if he doesn't, Wales should give Dan the Summer off. We need to send what Davies can do, and it would be good to see a bit of Owen Williams too.

Numbers · Post by **Numbers** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:08 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:I just hope Gatland takes Biggar. Or even if he doesn't, Wales should give Dan the Summer off. We need to send what Davies can do, and it would be good to see a bit of Owen Williams too.

I don't think Biggar will go on either tour, we have to try Davies on this tour or we might as well give up on him, I'd like to see Beck at 13 with perhaps Owen Williams at 12.

I'd also like to see the following players given a go, not all in the same match mind you:

Sam Parry
Kristian Dacey
Ryan Elias
Wyn Jones
Will Boyd
James Davies
Harrison Keddie
Olly Cracknell
Ashley Beck
Corey Allen
Giles
Rory Thornton
Lloyd Ashley
Steff Evans
Rhun Williams
Ashton Hewitt
Tyler Morgan
Hallam Amos
Daffyd Howells
Navidi
Ellis Jenkins
Shinglers

We look a little thin at second row depth wise.

Post by **Sandydragon** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:00 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:I just hope Gatland takes Biggar. Or even if he doesn't, Wales should give Dan the Summer off. We need to send what Davies can do, and it would be good to see a bit of Owen Williams too.

Because we are playing the games in NZ, I suspect there will be pressure to have the first choice players on tour, just in case the Lions need injury replacements. It really wouldn't surprise me if we had a near full strength squad touring, although that might leave some scope for cameo appearances for some of the fringe players.

MrK · Post by **MrK** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:23 pm

Numbers wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote: I'd also like to see the following players given a go, not all in the same match mind you:

Sam Parry - YES
Kristian Dacey - HE DEFINITELY NEEDS A CHANCE TO SHOW WHAT HE CAN DO
Ryan Elias - YES - all 3 of those I would suggest are better options than Baldwin
Wyn Jones - Id add Dillon Lewis for the TH - I know he hasnt played much this season but he has potential
Will Boyd - YES
James Davies - HMMM, he is Biggaresque in his complaining
Harrison Keddie - or Dan Baker - given the right thingsto work on Baker could be our version of Vunipola - his defence has improved this year
Olly Cracknell - yes
Ashley Beck - yes
Corey Allen - not so sure
Giles - yes
Rory Thornton - Ive heard Beard is rated as the potentially better of the two
Lloyd Ashley - Hell No
Steff Evans - Undoubtedly
Rhun Williams - Not for me
Ashton Hewitt - Nope

Tyler Morgan - Hes done nothing this season but does have potential
Hallam Amos - again, done nothing this season and for me is an average test player
Daffyd Howells - Nope
Navidi - should have had his chance a while ago...not now
Ellis Jenkins - class player and should be included
Shinglers - Id look at the shingler 10/12 option, and add Owen Williams in.

Others Id add
Owen Watkins - we need something different at Centre
Josh McLeod - maybe
Tom Habberfield - I think hes been the best 9 on show this season
Ollie Griffiths - Id actually have him ahead of James Davies

So a completely scratch team for me would look something like

Dan Evans, Steff Evans, Beck, O Williams, Giles, S Davies (I know hes not completely new), Habberfield
W Jones, Dacey, D Lewis, Beard, Thornton, Cracknell, Young, Baker

B: Parry, LHP?, THP?, SR?, Boyd, J Evans, Watkins, B3?

.

Numbers · Post by **Numbers** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:47 pm

MrK wrote:
Numbers wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote: I'd also like to see the following players given a go, not all in the same match mind you:

Sam Parry - YES
Kristian Dacey - HE DEFINITELY NEEDS A CHANCE TO SHOW WHAT HE CAN DO
Ryan Elias - YES - all 3 of those I would suggest are better options than Baldwin
Wyn Jones - Id add Dillon Lewis for the TH - I know he hasnt played much this season but he has potential
Will Boyd - YES
James Davies - HMMM, he is Biggaresque in his complaining
Harrison Keddie - or Dan Baker - given the right thingsto work on Baker could be our version of Vunipola - his defence has improved this year
Olly Cracknell - yes
Ashley Beck - yes
Corey Allen - not so sure
Giles - yes
Rory Thornton - Ive heard Beard is rated as the potentially better of the two
Lloyd Ashley - Hell No
Steff Evans - Undoubtedly
Rhun Williams - Not for me
Ashton Hewitt - Nope

Tyler Morgan - Hes done nothing this season but does have potential
Hallam Amos - again, done nothing this season and for me is an average test player
Daffyd Howells - Nope
Navidi - should have had his chance a while ago...not now
Ellis Jenkins - class player and should be included
Shinglers - Id look at the shingler 10/12 option, and add Owen Williams in.

Others Id add
Owen Watkins - we need something different at Centre
Josh McLeod - maybe
Tom Habberfield - I think hes been the best 9 on show this season
Ollie Griffiths - Id actually have him ahead of James Davies

So a completely scratch team for me would look something like

Dan Evans, Steff Evans, Beck, O Williams, Giles, S Davies (I know hes not completely new), Habberfield
W Jones, Dacey, D Lewis, Beard, Thornton, Cracknell, Young, Baker

B: Parry, LHP?, THP?, SR?, Boyd, J Evans, Watkins, B3?

.

I think Amos has real potential, being injured hasn't helped him, two serious shoulder injuries in two years, he has a good rugby brain something which some of players lack.

I don't think Owen Watkins offers anything different from our current centres, he isn't a playmaker, I would have Keiron Williams ahead of him but he'll be at the U20s World Cup.

We can't put out a completely novice team that will just get beaten, the side will need to include some experienced internationals. This should be the lesson that was learnt from the last tour to Japan.

Dan Evans isn't going to feature in the future so I would prefer Rhun Williams or Matthew Morgan. I think Amos may play fullback if he returns to fitness.

I prefer James Davies to Ollie Griffiths for his link play, he is like an extra back at times and he consistently wins turnovers, but each to his own.

We have to blood some young wingers as strength is missing out wide, hence my inclusion of Daffyd Howells, ditto the reason for Lloyd Ashley who is unspectacular but solid but we are desperate for 2nd rows.

I would be inclined to field a starting team something like this:

Wyn Jones
Parry
Lee
Brad Davies
Rory Thornton/Lloyd Ashley
Cracknell
James Davies
Keddie/Baker
Aled Davies/Habberfield
Sam Davies
Steff Evans
Owen Williams
Ashley Beck
Giles
Morgan/Amos

Bench: Nicky Smith, Kristian Dacey, Dillon Lewis, Thornton/Ashley, Keddie/Baker, Aled Davies/Habberfield, Morgan/Amos, Tyler Morgan

After the Lions announcement some more senior players on the bench perhaps when I know who's available.

Son of Mathonwy · Post by **Son of Mathonwy** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:29 pm

Numbers wrote:
I think Amos has real potential, being injured hasn't helped him, two serious shoulder injuries in two years, he has a good rugby brain something which some of players lack.

I don't think Owen Watkins offers anything different from our current centres, he isn't a playmaker, I would have Keiron Williams ahead of him but he'll be at the U20s World Cup.

We can't put out a completely novice team that will just get beaten, the side will need to include some experienced internationals. This should be the lesson that was learnt from the last tour to Japan.

Dan Evans isn't going to feature in the future so I would prefer Rhun Williams or Matthew Morgan. I think Amos may play fullback if he returns to fitness.

I prefer James Davies to Ollie Griffiths for his link play, he is like an extra back at times and he consistently wins turnovers, but each to his own.

We have to blood some young wingers as strength is missing out wide, hence my inclusion of Daffyd Howells, ditto the reason for Lloyd Ashley who is unspectacular but solid but we are desperate for 2nd rows.

I would be inclined to field a starting team something like this:

Wyn Jones
Parry
Lee
Brad Davies
Rory Thornton/Lloyd Ashley
Cracknell
James Davies
Keddie/Baker
Aled Davies/Habberfield
Sam Davies
Steff Evans
Owen Williams
Ashley Beck
Giles
Morgan/Amos

Bench: Nicky Smith, Kristian Dacey, Dillon Lewis, Thornton/Ashley, Keddie/Baker, Aled Davies/Habberfield, Morgan/Amos, Tyler Morgan

After the Lions announcement some more senior players on the bench perhaps when I know who's available.

I broadly agree. Watkin needs to get some time back with the Ospreys before we think of sending him on tour. I wouldn't bring Nipper, brilliant as he is ball in hand, his defence just isn't good enough. Dan Evans deserves to go, but I can see why it would be better to go for a young'un like Rhun. Ben John might be worth bringing, his form has been better than Tyler Morgan's for me.

Numbers · Post by **Numbers** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:33 pm

I completely forgot about Ben John, he has promise.

MrK · Post by **MrK** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:38 pm

Numbers wrote:I completely forgot about Ben John, he has promise.

Me too...has he been injured too?

MrK · Post by **MrK** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:11 pm

Patchell looked good tonight...still has so much potential..Aled Davies distribution was good too.

Son of Mathonwy · Post by **Son of Mathonwy** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:20 am

Not sure if he'll be WQ in time for the tour, but Hadleigh Parkes needs to be considered for next season.

Post by **Sandydragon** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:48 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Not sure if he'll be WQ in time for the tour, but Hadleigh Parkes needs to be considered for next season.

Agreed. The more competition for centre shirts the better.

MrK · Post by **MrK** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:40 pm

Looks like he joined Dec 2nd 14 - so wont be available for the tour or the AIs. - but agree he would be a good addition (even at 29)

Still love to see Patchell at 12 but understand it wont happen

I see that lad Josh Adams scored again....2 tries against Wasps ..no mean feet..is he a potential bolter for the tour?

Post by **Sandydragon** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:07 pm

If Parks can get some game time in before the next rwc then I don't think age will be an issue. None of our centres are setting the world alight.

MrK · Post by **MrK** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:44 pm

So now we know whos in the Lions - Halfpenny, Williams, North, Davies, Biggar, Webb - Owens, AWJ, Tipuric, Moriaty, Warburton, Faletau

Id like to see the following Welsh Touring team

P: Jenkins (Capt), Evans, Smith ; Francis, Lee, Lewis
H: Dacey, Baldwin, one of Parry/Elias
2: Ball, Charteris, Thornton, Hill
B: Cracknell, Boyde, Young, Jenkins, one of Griffiths/Keddie/Baker/King

S: Davies, Davies, Habberfield
O: Davies, Anscombe
C : O Williams, S Williams, A Beck, T Morgan
B : S Evans, Cuthbert, Giles, Patchell one of D Evans/ Rhun W

Numbers · Post by **Numbers** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:03 pm

MrK wrote:So now we know whos in the Lions - Halfpenny, Williams, North, Davies, Biggar, Webb - Owens, AWJ, Tipuric, Moriaty, Warburton, Faletau

Id like to see the following Welsh Touring team

P: Jenkins (Capt), Evans, Smith ; Francis, Lee, Lewis
H: Dacey, Baldwin, one of Parry/Elias
2: Ball, Charteris, Thornton, Hill
B: Cracknell, Boyde, Young, Jenkins, one of Griffiths/Keddie/Baker/King

S: Davies, Davies, Habberfield
O: Davies, Anscombe
C : O Williams, S Williams, A Beck, T Morgan
B : S Evans, Cuthbert, Giles, Patchell one of D Evans/ Rhun W

We've got some great depth at hooker and openside, we could do with some second rows, I think Lloyd Williams may go and I would like to see James Davies given a chance (in place of Boyde) as he is the top of the turnover charts in the PRO12 this season and scores a lot of tries.

Other than that I think that's the squad they'll take.

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