Snap General Election called

[Mellsblue]

Is it amazing? Running on a manifesto that promised the world to all but those nasty people who earn a lot, if you can call £80,000 in the south east a lot, that was economically illiterate and was rubbished by the IFS, and that had only a slim chance of actually being fulfilled. He was also running against a government that presided over seven years of austerity and that ran an utterly woeful campaign. He had Remainers handed to him on a plate in pro-EU seats in which the Lib Dems weren't a viable option and yet he still didn't win or get close to having the numbers to form a coalition.

[Digby]

Doing a lot better than expected is certainly a form of victory, no?

I'd say no as they should never have had such low expectations. To label them winners would be like calling Neil Kinnock a winner, and nobody does that.

Either of our major parties should be winning a 3rd election to get back into government, so Labour's results today are akin to the Tories under Michael Howard, and again nobody calls him a winner, though people tend to be very happy to call him a loser

You on drugs?

Tory called snap election on the back of huge poll numbers. Corbyn being written off by pretty much every person in Britain. Result, hung parliament. To suggest that this is not a victory for Labour and Corbyn in particular is just churlish.

Well I was drinking herb tea last night, but as that was just Twinings Lemon & Ginger I suspect I'd be okay.

And my point is the Labour party should have never been trailing like that, it's absurd to even remotely defend that when they're up against a 3rd term austerity Tory opposition. And even absent of that being odd seats behind isn't a win, it's a loss.

Corbyn has done better than Milliband, but that's not good enough.

[jared_7]

I'd say no as they should never have had such low expectations. To label them winners would be like calling Neil Kinnock a winner, and nobody does that.

Either of our major parties should be winning a 3rd election to get back into government, so Labour's results today are akin to the Tories under Michael Howard, and again nobody calls him a winner, though people tend to be very happy to call him a loser

You on drugs?

Tory called snap election on the back of huge poll numbers. Corbyn being written off by pretty much every person in Britain. Result, hung parliament. To suggest that this is not a victory for Labour and Corbyn in particular is just churlish.

Well I was drinking herb tea last night, but as that was just Twinings Lemon & Ginger I suspect I'd be okay.

And my point is the Labour party should have never been trailing like that, it's absurd to even remotely defend that when they're up against a 3rd term austerity Tory opposition. And even absent of that being odd seats behind isn't a win, it's a loss.

Corbyn has done better than Milliband, but that's not good enough.

But you refuse to accept the reason why they are so far behind is in-fighting, and place all of the blame for that infighting on the elected leader rather than those under him causing the problems in the first place.

You are completely right this is not where Labour should be, the last 2 years have been an absolute writeoff and basically only started acting like the party should a couple of months ago.

[jared_7]

Little turds like Owen Jones have done an unsurprising u-turn, a man who for 2 years was unelectable despite never running an election campaign is all of a sudden "fine prime minister material".

[Peat]

Twinings Lemon & Ginger is the shiznit. Good choice man.

Yeah, Labour should never have been in this position, but there's only so much blame that can be apportioned to Corbyn here. He had very little to do with landing them in the hole and, while he could have done a better job digging them out prior to this election, he was well up against it. And he did pretty much the best imaginable job here.

It is pretty pathetic that the Labour's busy going "Whoo hoo" when in reality they've still come behind a party that haven't been able to win a clean majority since 1992. Oops, sorry, did it once. Pathetic from both. We live in an age of political pygmies.

[Digby]

You on drugs?

Tory called snap election on the back of huge poll numbers. Corbyn being written off by pretty much every person in Britain. Result, hung parliament. To suggest that this is not a victory for Labour and Corbyn in particular is just churlish.

Well I was drinking herb tea last night, but as that was just Twinings Lemon & Ginger I suspect I'd be okay.

And my point is the Labour party should have never been trailing like that, it's absurd to even remotely defend that when they're up against a 3rd term austerity Tory opposition. And even absent of that being odd seats behind isn't a win, it's a loss.

Corbyn has done better than Milliband, but that's not good enough.

But you refuse to accept the reason why they are so far behind is in-fighting, and place all of the blame for that infighting on the elected leader rather than those under him causing the problems in the first place.

You are completely right this is not where Labour should be, the last 2 years have been an absolute writeoff and basically only started acting like the party should a couple of months ago.

Maybe the infighting is part of the reason, but every party leader has to contend with that. How you control that or not is part of what you're judged on, it's not an issue one should use to absolve a party leader

[canta_brian]

You on drugs?

Tory called snap election on the back of huge poll numbers. Corbyn being written off by pretty much every person in Britain. Result, hung parliament. To suggest that this is not a victory for Labour and Corbyn in particular is just churlish.

Well I was drinking herb tea last night, but as that was just Twinings Lemon & Ginger I suspect I'd be okay.

And my point is the Labour party should have never been trailing like that, it's absurd to even remotely defend that when they're up against a 3rd term austerity Tory opposition. And even absent of that being odd seats behind isn't a win, it's a loss.

Corbyn has done better than Milliband, but that's not good enough.

But you refuse to accept the reason why they are so far behind is in-fighting, and place all of the blame for that infighting on the elected leader rather than those under him causing the problems in the first place.

You are completely right this is not where Labour should be, the last 2 years have been an absolute writeoff and basically only started acting like the party should a couple of months ago.

Seems Corbyn has played a blinder. May, on the other hand. Seems May is refusing to step down if Lauren Knussb... Keunsber... Oh what's her name, is correct. That's just wonderful. Her obvious talent is just what we need going into the brexit negotiations in 11 days.

So she supported remain

Flipped to leave to get the top job

Flipped to call a snap election thinking labour were down and out

Made a twat of herself by saying the Europeans were being mean after that number 10 dinner

Lost a parliamentary majority with big gains to the unelectable Corbyn.

She'll do just fine in the brexit negotiations. She's obviously a talent.

[Digby]

Twinings Lemon & Ginger is the shiznit. Good choice man.

You say that, but it seems like only the other week I'd have been staying up for much of the election if not all of it whilst drinking champagne.

[Digby]

Seems May is refusing to step down if Lauren Knussb... Keunsber... Oh what's her name, is correct. That's just wonderful. Her obvious talent is just what we need going into the brexit negotiations in 11 days.

Kuenssberg.

May will not last until the next election as she'd not be allowed to fight it even if she wants to. Whether the Tories seek an immediate new leader, whether they try to make some progress on Brexit first allowing May to take some hits so the new person can step in to sort it out, whether May simply quite, whether even we ask the EU for a stay of execution on leaving the EU I don't know, and really they're not likely to know just 5-6 hours later after the scale of their disastrous night was confirmed.

[Sandydragon]

There is no way that May will lead another election campaign. None. The only reason she isn't busy packing right now, and I understand the likes of BoJo are taking soundings, is that a leadership contest now would be a disaster. Brexit is happening and we can't piss about with a leadership contest now. Once we have a deal in place, I expect those knives being sharpened to be deployed.

It's also in a lot of people's interests to keep May in place. Many Tories don't want Boris but there aren't too many contenders at the moment. I'm not sure Corbyn would want her to go either. If he takes the long view, he is in a great position. He has gained additional seats and regained votes from ukip and other protest parties. He can now watch a weakened PM take the full rap for Brexit whilst chucking grenades in from the sidelines and hoping to capitalise if the Tories fall apart, which given the volatility of the conservative right wing, is quite likely, particularly if May has to compromise and get support of other parties.

Better for Corbyn to have come a close second last night and look to capitalise in a few years time, as I don't think this government will last 5 years.

[Peat]

Twinings Lemon & Ginger is the shiznit. Good choice man.

You say that, but it seems like only the other week I'd have been staying up for much of the election if not all of it whilst drinking champagne.

Champagne is heavily overrated.

[Digby]

Twinings Lemon & Ginger is the shiznit. Good choice man.

You say that, but it seems like only the other week I'd have been staying up for much of the election if not all of it whilst drinking champagne.

Champagne is heavily overrated.

I agree, and normally I'd consider sparkling wine a better and cheaper alternative. But sometimes it's just a time for champagne

[Big D]

Once again regardless of content of her campaign Ruth Davidson has had a positive night in Scotland. Tory HQ might keep an eye on that one and get her involved. She seems to know how to strike a chord with the electorate in Scotland.

[Banquo]

Once again regardless of content of her campaign Ruth Davidson has had a positive night in Scotland. Tory HQ might keep an eye on that one and get her involved. She seems to know how to strike a chord with the electorate in Scotland.

indeed, polar opposite to May in terms of charisma, energy and debating

[Banquo]

McDonnell wants to form a coalition government

[Digby]

McDonnell wants to form a coalition government

Does he say wants? Though no matter what he wants close friends may persuade him it's in the best interests of the country for him to put aside what he wants and take any opportunity to serve.

[Banquo]

McDonnell wants to form a coalition government

Does he say wants? Though no matter what he wants close friends may persuade him it's in the best interests of the country for him to put aside what he wants and take any opportunity to serve.

just heard him say it

[Stom]

McDonnell wants to form a coalition government

Did he not say Minority Government? With policy by policy support.

Could we have competing Queen's Speeches?

[Digby]

McDonnell wants to form a coalition government

Does he say wants? Though no matter what he wants close friends may persuade him it's in the best interests of the country for him to put aside what he wants and take any opportunity to serve.

just heard him say it

And how does one know a politician is lying?

If John is saying that is it just to put pressure on the Tories to move quickly in all this? No one else is going to seriously discuss anything surely until the Tories have a go at putting a government together

[Sandydragon]

Once again regardless of content of her campaign Ruth Davidson has had a positive night in Scotland. Tory HQ might keep an eye on that one and get her involved. She seems to know how to strike a chord with the electorate in Scotland.

Completely agree. Davidson and BoJo to feature large in the next campaign as the Tories go for popularity.

[canta_brian]

Any thoughts on what position the DUP will want to take re brexit? The "will of the people" in NI was 56% in favour of remain.

The lib dems were accused of jot respecting "the will of the people" for their 2nd referendum policy. Would the same charge be levelled in NI if the DUP support the Tories?

[Mellsblue]

Once again regardless of content of her campaign Ruth Davidson has had a positive night in Scotland. Tory HQ might keep an eye on that one and get her involved. She seems to know how to strike a chord with the electorate in Scotland.

Yep. If it wasn't for her May would be in even deep s**t.

[Sandydragon]

McDonnell wants to form a coalition government

Did he not say Minority Government? With policy by policy support.

Could we have competing Queen's Speeches?

I don't think we will.

Anyone can try and form a government, of course when one party has a majority its basically a given. There is nothing to stop Labour having a go at something, but the mathematical reality is that the Tories, with DUP support, could scupper them at any moment.

I'm very surprised they are trying this on, unless they don't expect to get anywhere.

[Sandydragon]

Any thoughts on what position the DUP will want to take re brexit? The "will of the people" in NI was 56% in favour of remain.

The lib dems were accused of jot respecting "the will of the people" for their 2nd referendum policy. Would the same charge be levelled in NI if the DUP support the Tories?

Most likely hard brexit. They tend to be comparable to the right wing of the tory party.

[Stom]

Two things:

1) For Labour to have done this well, after the press they have had and the in-fighting and bickering that has dogged them for ages...it's incredible, really. And they reached voters. Turnout was high, turnout amongst the young was high, and there were some very marginals that could have gone the other way.

No party has the strength to get done what they want, and the only way we could have a government who can pass even half of their plans is with a Tory DUP coalition...which would be a disaster for the Tories and, maybe Eugene could shed some light on this, maybe for the DUP, too, in the long run.

I think there's a good chance we could be continuing our yearly poll cycle. Sigh.

2) The Brexit negotiator from the EU has said that we can take our time, so long as we stick to the 2 years. So that paves the way for Labour to challenge again and again. For the Lib Dems to challenge again and again. For the SNP to challenge again and again. And considering the deep divisions within the Tories, the likelihood of any vote in Parliament actually passing is...slim.

Oh, and btw, does anyone else think we could see the end of Farron? He only just held onto his seat, and he's pretty repulsive. Perhaps Vince will step up as party leader now he's back in power. Highest turnout, we got: 80%, and over half voted for Vince.