Post Lions..what next for Wales

[MrK]

A slight change of approach crept in to Warrens tactics during the lions.

3 key things for me that could have positive repurcussions for Wales

1) Warburton at 6 - does this open the door for a Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau starting back line with Moriaty on the bench

2) Liam Williams at 15 - chosen ahead of Halfpenny, normally a WG stalwart - does change signal a desire to be more attacking?

3) Farrel at 12 - I wasnt in the slightest bit surprised at Teo starting the first test as that was Gatland 101, but was surprised when Sexton and Farrell were paired together at 10/12 for the second and last tests. Im not saying Wales have the players to do this...but could this lead the way to at least trialling it in the AI?

I think Biggar will remain at 10, but who have we got that could play that "playmaker" 12 role, I dont think its S WIlliams, I dont think Sam D is the right call, but Anscombe, O Williams and Patchell all have the "potential" to play well there. I think Ansombe has looked class in the back end of the season and has the skill set to play there.

Could we see:

Williams, Evans, JD2, Anscombe, North, Biggar, Webb
Evans, Owens, Lee, AWJ, Ball, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau

Jenkins, Dacey, Lewis, S Davies, Moriaty, G Davies, S Williams, R Williams

[Sandydragon]

I'm very unconvinced by Sam Davies at 12. Patchell has been played in the centres but is his defence up to it. I'm aware that we sacrifice some defensive grunt by not picking someone like Roberts, but the IC needs to be able to provide some assurance. Physically, Patch looks like he could play centre, so maybe some work on technique?

Anscombe at FB isn't something I want to see too often. But defensively he looks out of sorts due to positioning (experience) and a lack of pace perhaps against the quicker back 3 players. Would IC suit him better (in attack I could see this working).

Owen Williams - he has played there for his club, will he get a chance to see if he is international quality?

Or stick with Scott Williams and let him play more to his strengths rather than aping Jamie Roberts?

A conundrum. But with North (probably) on one wing and JD2 at 13, we can get over the gain line. Its definitely worth a look, although we don't have the time for lengthy experimentation and character assassination before the next RWC.

[ALunpg]

I'm very unconvinced by Sam Davies at 12. Patchell has been played in the centres but is his defence up to it. I'm aware that we sacrifice some defensive grunt by not picking someone like Roberts, but the IC needs to be able to provide some assurance. Physically, Patch looks like he could play centre, so maybe some work on technique?

Anscombe at FB isn't something I want to see too often. But defensively he looks out of sorts due to positioning (experience) and a lack of pace perhaps against the quicker back 3 players. Would IC suit him better (in attack I could see this working).

Owen Williams - he has played there for his club, will he get a chance to see if he is international quality?

Or stick with Scott Williams and let him play more to his strengths rather than aping Jamie Roberts?

A conundrum. But with North (probably) on one wing and JD2 at 13, we can get over the gain line. Its definitely worth a look, although we don't have the time for lengthy experimentation and character assassination before the next RWC.

Owen Williams was tried against Tonga and RGC...didn't look good and has not looked good playing for Leicester at centre in general...according to some of their fans ..he was distinctly average. Owen Watkin may be the future as with Jack Roberts....who has moved to the Blues from Leicester he seems a much better alternative .

Patchell may be the option. ..but his decision making is sometimes meeah... initially I would stick with Scott Williams he had a bad time from Feb onwards ...I think the new season may be an opportunity to let hIm loose.

But..our problem is the props..neither of the tight heads really contributes in open play the loose heads are less of a problem ..then we come to the locks ... Ball is great ..and he needs to take the next step ..but without Charteris our lineout looks suspect .

So ...going forward we need to change up personnel in the pack...back line is even more an issue and inside centre is just one of the issues.
Neither North or Cuthbert have been on form for a while..Allen is not an option
There is Halfpenny who as a winger was successful. .. Steffan is a certain for me .

So to the subs ..Sam Davies had a bad end of season but was solid in the tour if unexciting. But he is the full package . I am not sure how far Hallam Amos is away from a return.

Let's hope that we can get a couple of tightheas that can step up and at least one more second row who would be aggressive ball carrier.

[Sandydragon]

Keeping the faith with Scott Williams is probably the best shout of all. We dont have 4 years to experiment, this should be the time where the team is beginning to gel prior to next seasons ramp up to the RWC. Scott and Foxy do well together for Llanelli so there are good arguments for not making a change for the sake of it. If Liam Williams is installed as Full Back and maybe someone like Stef Evans is brought in, there will be some good attacking options in our backline.

Our back row gives me no concerns, provided everyone is fit. Pick 3 from Moriarty, Faletau, Warburton and Tipuric with the other on the bench.

The front 5 is our biggest weakness. I completely agree that our props don't contribute enough. Owens at hooker is good enough but at lock we have a problem emerging. How much longer is AWJ going to keep going? Ditto Charteris who is no spring chicken. As you say, Ball has plenty of potential but who else is there? Cory Hill looks like a stop gap.

[skidger]

As an Englishman looking in and living in Wales you are so much better with Tipuric in the line up. Well for me anyway.

[Sandydragon]

As an Englishman looking in and living in Wales you are so much better with Tipuric in the line up. Well for me anyway.

Completely agree.

[MrK]

Keeping the faith with Scott Williams is probably the best shout of all. We dont have 4 years to experiment, this should be the time where the team is beginning to gel prior to next seasons ramp up to the RWC. Scott and Foxy do well together for Llanelli so there are good arguments for not making a change for the sake of it. If Liam Williams is installed as Full Back and maybe someone like Stef Evans is brought in, there will be some good attacking options in our backline.

Our back row gives me no concerns, provided everyone is fit. Pick 3 from Moriarty, Faletau, Warburton and Tipuric with the other on the bench.

The front 5 is our biggest weakness. I completely agree that our props don't contribute enough. Owens at hooker is good enough but at lock we have a problem emerging. How much longer is AWJ going to keep going? Ditto Charteris who is no spring chicken. As you say, Ball has plenty of potential but who else is there? Cory Hill looks like a stop gap.

Props are a struggle - we have no Genge or Sinkler or Vuniploa type "impact "props - Evans and Lee are starters - Jenkins is still a great option from the bench but Smith needs to step up, at tight head our best option is D Lewis for impact

Hooker I actually think - Dacey and Elias will be fighting it out for a bench spot, and both of those I think can have a big impact - Baldwins days surely are numbered!

Second Row I think Seb Davies looked a real impact player and could be very useful of the bench outside of that my money is on Beard to be more dynamic than Thornton but Thornton to be the safe pair of hands.

Back Row we have flankers in extremis - Tipuric, Warburton, Jenkins, Cubby, Young, Moriaty to name the leading candidates, Id like to see the experiment of O Griffiths continue at 8 - a different type of 8 but why not, he looks quality and could easily be fast tracked in. Baker or King need a big season at the Os to put their hands up for #8 - Id like to see the Scarlets employ Boyde or Macleod or Condy at 8 for a stretch and see how they go.

Should be an interesting season, Id like to see continued success of the Scarlets playing exactly the same brand of rugby, Id like the O's to step it up from last season and be more consistent - hopefully O Watkins return alongside a refreshed A Beck, Id like Cardiff to become a force again, there are some signs that this may happen - they have a strong front row, have recruited in the locks and have a perm 3 from Warburton, Jenkins, Williams, Navidi, Turnbull, Bennett and Cook back 3 that is a strong selection. Dragon just HAVE to get better.

[Sandydragon]

Dragons have the Orange One arriving - they cant get any worse than last season.

When you list all those flankers, its almost embarrassing. Real shame that the same depth isn't there in the front 5 (although hooker isn't too bad and I agree about Baldwin on current form).

We could do with some front five players who can mix it up physically. Being quick around the park is great, but I'd like a big hitter and carrier in there somewhere.

[Sourdust]

We often talk about our "abundance" of flankers, but an international team should be able to pick from three international-class players in EVERY position. Given our resources, you could forgive settling for two, I suppose. But yes, the front five is a worry as we seem to be producing lots of "journeymen" at present - decent enough club players, but...

It's hard to argue with Sanjay at 15 now, but if I was Leigh Halfpenny, I'd be looking askance at a system that coached all the attacking flair out of me, and then replaced me with a flashy attacking player. He's still a better goalkicker than Biggar, but not by a wide margin. He might be in trouble.

[Son of Mathonwy]

As an Englishman looking in and living in Wales you are so much better with Tipuric in the line up. Well for me anyway.

Completely agree.

The problem being that Gatland does not think so, as his Lions selection made clear. If our 4 top back rowers are fit, Tipuric will be riding pine for as long as Gatland is with us. Sadly.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Assuming Gatland does return from NZ (and I'm still hoping someone will snap him up), what will his approach to the game be? I expect he'll see the drawn series with the world champions/top ranking team as vindication for "Gatball". [For me though, Gatball works fairly well for the Lions due to the limited time the team has to gel (although I think the Lions would have done better with Eddie Jones building a team around an English core or, for that matter, Schmidt building a team around Ireland).]

So I'm not expecting massive changes if Gatland stays in place. Maybe Halfpenny will find himself on the bench, or even gone. I think Warburton will go back to 7, with Moriarty at 6. Only injury will put Tipuric in at 7 IMO. North may have been dropped from the Lions but surely Gatland will retain him for Wales. AWJ is clearly safe (and rightly so).

Tactical changes? Glacially slow evolution will continue...

10 and 12 could be interesting. Biggar sidelined for a better playmaker at fly half. Does that mean Davies might get a look in? Biggar at 12 seems unlikely since he never plays there. I'd like to see Beck or Patchell given a chance at 12, but Patchell is unlikely to get game time in that position for the Scarlets (nor does he want to, I think). Hope Beck's regional form gets him noticed, but we should (and I think, will) continue with Scott until someone knocks very loudly at the door. Other players like Allen and Watkin need to earn Wales caps by performing well regionally.

Will Cuthbert continue to be selected under Gatland? This isn't rational, so who can predict it? Hopefully Steff and Keelan will get a chance, but I suspect neither of them is a big as Gatland would like.

[Sandydragon]

We often talk about our "abundance" of flankers, but an international team should be able to pick from three international-class players in EVERY position. Given our resources, you could forgive settling for two, I suppose. But yes, the front five is a worry as we seem to be producing lots of "journeymen" at present - decent enough club players, but...

It's hard to argue with Sanjay at 15 now, but if I was Leigh Halfpenny, I'd be looking askance at a system that coached all the attacking flair out of me, and then replaced me with a flashy attacking player. He's still a better goalkicker than Biggar, but not by a wide margin. He might be in trouble.

Halfpennys place is at risk. He remains our best goal kicker, although Biggar is no slouch. Sanjay offers more in attack from full back, although halfpenny is more reliable in defence normally, and on the wing, we have some young options coming through. I don't see him as an impact sub, so his future role just isn't as clear as it once were.

[bruce]

We often talk about our "abundance" of flankers, but an international team should be able to pick from three international-class players in EVERY position. Given our resources, you could forgive settling for two, I suppose. But yes, the front five is a worry as we seem to be producing lots of "journeymen" at present - decent enough club players, but...

It's hard to argue with Sanjay at 15 now, but if I was Leigh Halfpenny, I'd be looking askance at a system that coached all the attacking flair out of me, and then replaced me with a flashy attacking player. He's still a better goalkicker than Biggar, but not by a wide margin. He might be in trouble.

Halfpennys place is at risk. He remains our best goal kicker, although Biggar is no slouch. Sanjay offers more in attack from full back, although halfpenny is more reliable in defence normally, and on the wing, we have some young options coming through. I don't see him as an impact sub, so his future role just isn't as clear as it once were.

Does Sanjay not have a 100% record or close to as a stand in goal kicker for Scarlets?

[ALunpg]

It's hard to argue with Sanjay at 15 now, but if I was Leigh Halfpenny, I'd be looking askance at a system that coached all the attacking flair out of me, and then replaced me with a flashy attacking player. He's still a better goalkicker than Biggar, but not by a wide margin. He might be in trouble.

The is so bang on....IMHO he should be given the chance to prove himself on the wing again. ..he is no slouch ..

As to others thoughts about North...I think if he wants to regain form he should getc a ticket back to the Scarlets and play with an expansive team...or pray his club start to demand more of him . Yes he has improved his defence but it is at the detriment of his attack ...I would prefer the later was the dominant skill.
I would happily see Steff Evans and Halum Amos as the wingers in the Autumn and not worry about the outcome so much.
Let's be honest we saw in the last world cup the devastating effect that injuries can have.. let us hope they have learned.

I saw Dillon Lewis on tour but it was such a mixed up bag of players it was hard to see how well he done as the opposition loose heads didn't quite get the idea of straight driving at the scrum...neither did some of the referees .I will hope he gets some start time for the Blues.

Lastly I agree there are some locks on the horizon...but none seem to grab the opportunity by the scruff.. Bradley D should be OK for this season and Jake Ball...so we have 3 for the WC but we need a dominant lineout ..maybe Beard can step up ..but he needs to up his tackling to outdo Charteris ....

[Numbers]

We often talk about our "abundance" of flankers, but an international team should be able to pick from three international-class players in EVERY position. Given our resources, you could forgive settling for two, I suppose. But yes, the front five is a worry as we seem to be producing lots of "journeymen" at present - decent enough club players, but...

It's hard to argue with Sanjay at 15 now, but if I was Leigh Halfpenny, I'd be looking askance at a system that coached all the attacking flair out of me, and then replaced me with a flashy attacking player. He's still a better goalkicker than Biggar, but not by a wide margin. He might be in trouble.

Halfpennys place is at risk. He remains our best goal kicker, although Biggar is no slouch. Sanjay offers more in attack from full back, although halfpenny is more reliable in defence normally, and on the wing, we have some young options coming through. I don't see him as an impact sub, so his future role just isn't as clear as it once were.

Does Sanjay not have a 100% record or close to as a stand in goal kicker for Scarlets?

Aye.

[Spiffy]

We often talk about our "abundance" of flankers, but an international team should be able to pick from three international-class players in EVERY position. Given our resources, you could forgive settling for two, I suppose. But yes, the front five is a worry as we seem to be producing lots of "journeymen" at present - decent enough club players, but...

It's hard to argue with Sanjay at 15 now, but if I was Leigh Halfpenny, I'd be looking askance at a system that coached all the attacking flair out of me, and then replaced me with a flashy attacking player. He's still a better goalkicker than Biggar, but not by a wide margin. He might be in trouble.

Halfpennys place is at risk. He remains our best goal kicker, although Biggar is no slouch. Sanjay offers more in attack from full back, although halfpenny is more reliable in defence normally, and on the wing, we have some young options coming through. I don't see him as an impact sub, so his future role just isn't as clear as it once were.

Halfpenny is a great little rugby player, as brave as they come, an ace goal kicker and still has a bit of gas. Maybe his move back to Wales will give him a new lease of life. He's still only 28 and could do a job on the wing, where he's always been a clinical finisher. Agree that Gatball has failed to get the best out of his talents, but he still has a lot to offer. He's been a match winner, and with his defence, a match saver, for Wales on many occasions.

George North is only 25 (though he seems to have been around forever) and still looks a little out of it at times on the wing. But he still has time to reinvent himself as a hard running centre. He's always done pretty well when he has had to move infield to cover injuries etc. and will threaten any defence with his gas up the middle. Jonathan Davies, who had a great Lions tour, can play 12 as well as 13. Might be interesting to see the the pair of them line up, but perhaps a bit radical for the Wales coaching team.

Patchell has always impressed me as a great natural talent, though a bit of a maverick with swings in form. He is big, fast, has a monster boot and shows clever touches. Would probably make a great footballing 12 but would need to concentrate on that position and would benefit from some smart coaching.

[Sandydragon]

There's no guarantee that Halfpenny will be coming back to Wales. I'd put my money on an English club, unless re agrees to a substantial pay cut.