Super Rugby Axes 3 !!

[rowan]

Australian Rugby Union chief executive Bill Pulver says he will step down from his position as soon as the governing body has a replacement, after announcing the ARU's decision to cut the Western Force.

& not a moment too soon. Was he not the weirdest looking guy you ever laid eyes upon? His fringe was practically on the crown of his head, his eyes were too close together, his nose too short, his mouth too small and his chin just a baggy mound of flesh with no discernible jaw-line. Sloppy work by the Maker, that one . . .

[rowan]

Sharpe is not a happy camper, obviously:

ANGRY former skipper Nathan Sharpe has condemned the decision to shut down his beloved Western Force as “the biggest mistake the Australian Rugby Union could have made.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/foun ... 03a2d9bdf7

More here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/rugb ... nse!637165

[rowan]

Wow

Rugby Western Australia (RugbyWA) have gained an injunction order against the Australian Rugby Union’s decision to axe the Western Force from Super Rugby.

The Perth-based franchise lodged an appeal of their axing to the New South Wales Supreme Court and the injunction order means the ARU will not be able to get rid or relocate the Force’s players until the issue has been resolved.

The Force have received suypport from billionaire mining magnate Andrew Forrest.

It is understood RugbyWA lodged their appeal on Monday and they expect to know by August 21 whether the matter will come before the Supreme Court.

The ARU announced on Friday that they decided to axe the Force from next year’s Super Rugby tournament and RugbyWA said soon afterwards that they intended to fight the governing body’s decision.

Force chief executive Mark Sinderberry is hopeful that their appeal will be successful.

“We’ve been given every encouragement by our legal team that it’s certainly possible,” he told ABC Radio.

“We have a commitment to the game here in Western Australia to exhaust every possibility.

“We’ve got real concerns that there hasn’t been a process and that there hasn’t been any alternatives offered. The Australian Rugby Union as an organisation has a responsibility to the game. They’ve also got a responsibility to the people of Western Australia.”

The central issue that was debated in arbitration was whether the Force’s axing by the ARU was correct under the terms of the ‘alliance’ deal the two organisations formed last year.

The ARU bought the Force’s licence as part of that ‘alliance’ deal and guaranteed the team’s future until the broadcast deal ended in 2020.

However, the ARU argued successfully that that deal no longer existed as a new one was negotiated after Super Rugby’s teams were reduced from 18 to 15.

Western Force head coach Dave Wessels said the ARU’s decision to axe the franchise has been an emotional experience for his players.

“Everyone’s pretty devastated. I’ve tried to phone each player,” he told AAP.

“I’ve had guys in tears and all sorts of stuff. People at this stage are pretty emotional.

“We’re just trying to stick together as a group.

“We feel like we’ve been building something special here over the last few months. Some of the players who have re-signed have actually taken pay cuts. That’s how much they care about the club and the group

“It would be sad to see the group just dissolved all of a sudden.”

[cashead]

Hahahaha, I hope it's successful as well, because Pulver resigning for no reason in the end is the most ARU thing they can do right now.

[rowan]

Shades of 1985. That also came out of nowhere! The injunction against the All Blacks' scheduled tour to South Africa that year related to a clause in the NZRFU's constitution stating it was obliged to act within the best interests of the game, I believe.

[Puja]

I'll be surprised if the Kings & Cheetahs don't run riot . . . & then Super Rugby will beg them to return

You'll be surprised then.

Puja

[rowan]

Super Rugby is a lot stronger than European club rugby. I think it's the Europeans who are going to be in for a surprise.

Remember this https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 80240.html

[Puja]

Super Rugby is a lot stronger than European club rugby. I think it's the Europeans who are going to be in for a surprise.

Remember this https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 80240.html

You have just referenced a game from 1997 to argue a point from 2017. How are you not embarrassed by this? If you wanted a more relevant example, how about 2014, where Saracens (who were semi-finalists in the AP) beat the Sharks (who went on to be semi finalists in Super Rugby). Even then, that's not exactly cutting edge, or a game that was taken especially seriously.

The Kiwi teams are better than the European club rugby teams, for definite, and any team in Super Rugby would crush Treviso, Dragons and Zebre (hardly a challenge). Cheetahs and Kings vs the likes of Munster, Leinster, Scarlets and Glasgow however? I think they might get into the playoffs, but they'll be a long way short of "running riot".

Puja

[rowan]

The Sharks-Saracens game was a glorified training run at best. Super Rugby teams have in fact won the vast majority of their encounters with European club teams, even though most of these were played in Europe during the European season, but they have become increasingly farcical over the years. That's why I reference that game 20 years ago, because it was taken very seriously by both teams, which were pretty much at full strength. I think France tried to revive this annual "world championship" fixture recently, but it wasn't taken very seriously, the Sharks stood in for whoever were the actual Super Rugby champs, went to France & won. But I am pretty sure if wasn't played last year. Anyway, speaking of the Sharks, they seem to have won a number of games against top European club sides lately: http://www.superxv.com/sharks-comfortab ... in-france/

[Puja]

The Sharks-Saracens game was a glorified training run at best. Super Rugby teams have in fact won the vast majority of their encounters with European club teams, even though most of these were played in Europe during the European season, but they have become increasingly farcical over the years. That's why I reference that game 20 years ago, because it was taken very seriously by both teams, which were pretty much at full strength. I think France tried to revive this annual "world championship" fixture recently, but it wasn't taken very seriously, the Sharks stood in for whoever were the actual Super Rugby champs, went to France & won. But I am pretty sure if wasn't played last year. Anyway, speaking of the Sharks, they seem to have won a number of games against top European club sides lately: http://www.superxv.com/sharks-comfortab ... in-france/

Yeah, the problem with that is that "in the European season" normally means a warm-up for the Super Rugby side and a midweek distraction for the NH side who don't want to risk their league or cup campaigns for a marketing stunt. Just look at that Sharks vs Toulouse game that you referenced - the Toulouse side is at best a mix of firsts and seconds. Practically none of these games are going to have both teams going at it full bore, except for that one between Brive and Auckland on the dawn of the professional era. It's so long ago that, not only has everyone involved retired, but Alain Penaud's son is now a successful rugby player.

Besides, if you were sending the Sharks north, then that'd be one thing, but to send two of your weakest franchises (especially after they've lost a few players to the uncertainty) and then claim that they'll "run riot" shows more than a little bit of hubris.

Puja

[rowan]

They're not my teams and it's not hubris, because I'm not a Saffa; just a neutral who expects the Super Rugby franchises to run riot against the Euro clubs in the expanded Po 14 because I've been following the game for a long time and have seen how Super Rugby franchises have dominated their encounters with Euro clubs in the past. So that's an estimation based on experience, not excessive pride.

[Puja]

They're not my teams and it's not hubris, because I'm not a Saffa; just a neutral who expects the Super Rugby franchises to run riot against the Euro clubs in the expanded Po 14 because I've been following the game for a long time and have seen how Super Rugby franchises have dominated their encounters with Euro clubs in the past. So that's an estimation based on experience, not excessive pride.

This "experience" that you're basing this on is from a variety of Anglo-SA and Franco-SA matches that a) had either or both sides being thoroughly disinterested, b) didn't exactly show "domination", c) are from several years ago, and d) have never featured a Welsh, Scottish or Irish side, nor for that matter either of the Cheetahs or Kings.

I think you're massively underestimating the quality of some of the players in the Pro 12. Yes, we like to mock them and I'm certain that I'll never hear the end of it for having defended them, but there is some quality there. For example, Leinster have 12 out of the 23 that played and beat NZ for Ireland, and 5 of them went on to beat NZ again for the Lions. Compare that to the Kings, whose sole international in their remaining squad is Dries van Schalkwyk, an Italian international poached from the worst team in the Pro 12, Zebre. Zebre, incidentally, still have 5 players who started the victory over South Africa last year, even without van Schalkwyk.

The Cheetahs aren't much better with 25 Springbok caps between 4 players (plus two Namibian internationals). Hell, Dragons have more Springbok caps in Zane Kirchner than the Cheetahs and Kings combined!

I think your bias is showing more than your experience, but I'll wait until after the first few rounds of the Pro 14 to come back to this, when we shall finally have some worthwhile NH/SH games to back up these opinions. Cheetahs get Ulster and Munster first up, with Kings getting Scarlets and Connacht. That'll give us a better lie of the land.

Puja

[rowan]

Sure, and it was bias not experience which led me to predict the Southern Hemisphere would dominate the last World Cup despite everyone on the European-based forum I was using at the time dismissing this out of hand and pointing to results in the AIs. England - Ireland final many of them predicted. They never forgave me for being right, which is why I'm over here now. Well, as I say, Northern Hemisphere rugby does its talking on paper. Southern Hemisphere rugby does its talking on the pitch.

[Puja]

We'll see.

Puja

[rowan]

This isn't going away . . .

The Western Australian (WA) government has threatened to bankrupt the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) if they don’t reinstate the Western Force in Super Rugby.

The ARU’s decision to chop the Force has not been a popular one, and the issue looks set to play out in the courts on multiple fronts.

Rugby Western Australia, with the support of billionaire mining magnate Andrew Forrest, will know Wednesday whether they can appeal the Force’s axing in the New South Wales Supreme Court.

And WA Premier Mark McGowan has written to ARU CEO Bill Pulver to inform him the state is getting legal advice on the prospect of suing the ARU over the Force’s axing unless the team is reinstated.

McGowen said $17 million was spent on new headquarters for the Force and $95 million invested on redeveloping the team’s home ground nib Stadium in Perth.

He said these hefty investments were made with an expectation and understanding that the Force would continue to be part of the Super Rugby tournament.

McGowen said if the court action bankrupts the ARU, it would be their own fault.

“My ultimatum to the ARU is this – reinstate the Force or we’ll use every tool at our disposal to get our money back,” he told AAP on Monday.

“And if that means the ARU goes bankrupt, so be it.”

Fans convened at the Force’s headquarters on Sunday to protest the decision to axe the franchise and continue the loud advocacy for their team that they have carried through the process.

Gathered at RugbyWA HQ, supporters wore Force gear, held placquards and posted the results to social media, keen to try and catch the national body’s attention.

The start of the rally was pushed back, according to attendees, as more people began to turn up to support their franchise’s hopes of survival.

Forrest said the decision to axe the Force lacked financial merit and hinted that the franchise could play elsewhere if unsuccessful in their Supreme Court appeal.

[rowan]

Latest:

Rugby Western Australia has been granted the chance to appeal against the Western Force's Super Rugby axing, with an appeal being heard on Wednesday.

The Force met the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) in court on Wednesday and it didn't take long for the Supreme Court to grant the West Australian body leave for appeal against the arbitration decision that went against them, allowing the governing body to move to axe the franchise.

Its appeal will be heard on Wednesday, after written submissions from the Force and ARU were reviewed.

Billionaire backer Andrew Forrest met with ARU board members in Adelaide on Tuesday, with the national body turning down an offer of grassroots investment believed to be $50 million, to keep the Force alive.

The Force have said they would look into Asia should their appeal fail, with Forrest saying the ARU had agreed to support that bid in their meeting on Tuesday.

RugbyWA are arguing the ARU did not have the right to axe the Force under the terms of an alignment deal that was struck in 2016.

In that deal, which was effectively a takeover, the ARU guaranteed the Force's future until at least 2020 when the broadcast deal ended.

But the ARU successfully argued in arbitration that the broadcast deal has since been renegotiated, since the Super Rugby tournament will be restructured from 18 participating teams to to 15.

With the broadcast deal tweaked because there are fewer teams in the competition, the ARU claim they had the right to axe the Force.

The size of Forrest's offer to the ARU has stunned the rugby public.

Forrest also guaranteed to bankroll any potential future losses by the Force.

But the ARU said it is impossible for them to reinstate the Force because SANZAAR had already eliminated a 16-team Super Rugby tournament for a numerous reasons.

"These factors included the extensive cost and limited appeal of a 16-team round-robin competition, player welfare issues due to extra travel requirements, and the loss of popular home and away 'derbies' in each country," ARU chairman Cameron Clyne told AAP.

"We were genuinely appreciative of Andrew's generous offer to back the Western Force and Australian Rugby.

"However, given the position we are in, we are unable to work towards retaining five teams in Super Rugby."

[rowan]

Spain, Germany & Canada for Pro 14 as well? It'll end up more stretched than Super Rugby!

The inclusion of a side from the United States has long been mooted and explored while there have been overtures from Germany and Spain, and Canada is seen as a potential option. The Pro14 is not looking for a club armed with a rich benefactor and dozens of foreign recruits but a team backed by its union that would fulfil World Rugby’s brief of expanding the game.

http://t2rugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=363&start=1175

[rowan]

Latest:

Rumours are circulating that more South African franchises want to join the expanded PRO14 competition, according to media reports.

South African-based sides the Cheetahs and Southern Kings are taking part in their opening PRO14 fixtures this weekend. The Cheetahs face Ulster in Belfast and the Southern Kings face the Scarlets.

The Times reports that the Johannesburg-based Super Rugby finalists the Lions and the Sharks, who are based in Durban, have both written to the South African Rugby Union and expressed their interest in following the Cheetahs and Kings' lead by playing in a Northern Hemisphere club competition.

It is unlikely that they will be accomodated in the Premiership or Top 14, however.

The Cheetahs and Southern Kings were axed from a now reduced Super Rugby competition, along with Australia’s Western Force.

[rowan]

In that case the next step is pretty obvious, right? South Africa breaks away from Super Rugby entirely and joins European competition at provincial franchise level, while New Zealand and Australia run a Pacific Rim competition including Japan and perhaps Fiji. The only question then is which direction would Argentina go in? Were it the Pacific region (which they're not actually quite part of) they could get a second team. Bring back the Force, and that's 14 right there. No disrespect intended to SA, either. It's been great watching our teams in action against theirs, but they need to go in one direction or the other, and perhaps they'll fare better in Europe. Presumably the Rugby Championship would not be effected.

[Spiffy]

In their first Pro 14 game the Cheetahs were humped 42-19 by an under-strength Ulster XV.

[rowan]

Surprised to hear that, Spiffy. Were the Cheetahs at full strength themselves?

Anyway, it'll take a little time for them and the Kings to adjust. It's incredible that they're already involved this year, wouldn't you say? I'd have thought they start in 2018.

[rowan]

Presumably the Rugby Championship would not be effected.

I am sure the Boks would rather stick with this than join the 6 Nations, which is a European competition and probably wouldn't welcome them anyway. Any SA rugby fan will tell you that the ABs are the ultimate challenge. In fact, if South African franchises broke away from Super Rugby altogether and joined an expanded Pro 14 league en masse, that might just add a touch of freshness to NZ - SA encounters at test level.

[morepork]

Ha Ha.

[Puja]

They're not my teams and it's not hubris, because I'm not a Saffa; just a neutral who expects the Super Rugby franchises to run riot against the Euro clubs in the expanded Po 14 because I've been following the game for a long time and have seen how Super Rugby franchises have dominated their encounters with Euro clubs in the past. So that's an estimation based on experience, not excessive pride.

Ulster 42-19 Cheetahs
Scarlets 57-10 Kings

Soooooo... how's the running riot coming along?

Puja

[rowan]

Already answered that a few posts above, Puja. Early days but, yes, surprised by those scorelines nonetheless.

However, let's wait a while before passing judgement.