Why do we have such a poor record of producing quality 9s?

[Dr Robert]

I think my biggest frustration with Ben Youngs is how little he's progressed as a player, particularly after such a good start to international rugby. I suspect he's just not very good at taking on board instruction/coaching feedback or at least having too many things to think about. But for all that, and given the broad range of skills needed at 9, I don't think he's the terrible player that some suggest. I absolutely agree it's a problem position for England though.

I would like to see England developing a few more 9's. I'd probably have given Robson a go for England a couple of seasons back, but his somewhat patchy performance since then have made me question whether the England selectors have probably been right about him.

One aspect that we've not really gone into is the importance of having a 9 that is a running threat, particularly close to the ruck. I recall having a long conversation with a senior RFU coach about the number of line-breaks made by the 9 in top level rugby; I forget the percentage, but it was surprisingly high and might explain why running 9's seem to be rated so much more highly than more reliable distributors. For all that, I agree with Banquo that decision-making is probably the most important attribute of a 9 - who remembers how that excellent passer, Shaun Perry, got on for England?!?

[Banquo]

I think my biggest frustration with Ben Youngs is how little he's progressed as a player, particularly after such a good start to international rugby. I suspect he's just not very good at taking on board instruction/coaching feedback or at least having too many things to think about. But for all that, and given the broad range of skills needed at 9, I don't think he's the terrible player that some suggest. I absolutely agree it's a problem position for England though.

I would like to see England developing a few more 9's. I'd probably have given Robson a go for England a couple of seasons back, but his somewhat patchy performance since then have made me question whether the England selectors have probably been right about him.

One aspect that we've not really gone into is the importance of having a 9 that is a running threat, particularly close to the ruck. I recall having a long conversation with a senior RFU coach about the number of line-breaks made by the 9 in top level rugby; I forget the percentage, but it was surprisingly high and might explain why running 9's seem to be rated so much more highly than more reliable distributors. For all that, I agree with Banquo that decision-making is probably the most important attribute of a 9 - who remembers how that excellent passer, Shaun Perry, got on for England?!?

Even if you do get a lot of line breaks, you still don't know what you are trading that off against really?

[Digby]

And if the 9 breaks who supports? Robshaw, Haskell and Vunipola all lumbering to get forward isn't the stuff of dreams if you do get in behind.

[Tigersman]

Ben White at Tigers looks very promising so far.

[Scrumhead]

So I hear. I know it's only preseason, but good to see he's getting a look in so far.