Agreed but . . . . if the head rules, maybe you'll be posting the same next week. The heart though - what a joy it would be to have won at last. Everything non-arthritic is crossed.
England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
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- Oakboy
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Pretty much the team rumoured. Borthwick sets us up to counter attack from the backfield through Marcus Smith.
Good to see the Prem form players in their positions get a start at 10 and 8.
Slightly concerned Daly is in there, his positional versatility is very useful but not sure he's going to be what we need at any point. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Good to see the Prem form players in their positions get a start at 10 and 8.
Slightly concerned Daly is in there, his positional versatility is very useful but not sure he's going to be what we need at any point. Hopefully I'm wrong.
- Oakboy
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Theoretically, Daly covers OC and all back three positions. He is useful with 6:2.FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:07 pm Pretty much the team rumoured. Borthwick sets us up to counter attack from the backfield through Marcus Smith.
Good to see the Prem form players in their positions get a start at 10 and 8.
Slightly concerned Daly is in there, his positional versatility is very useful but not sure he's going to be what we need at any point. Hopefully I'm wrong.
- Oakboy
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
I see George as a starter. He's not going to provide much of a boost coming on at 60.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
B Curry is unlucky.
Very pleased to see Willis starting and Fin given a go at 10. No fan of the 6:2 split and Daly is there solely down to his positional versatility.
Very pleased to see Willis starting and Fin given a go at 10. No fan of the 6:2 split and Daly is there solely down to his positional versatility.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:16 pm The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Dan would offer more impact from the bench. Possibly Rodd and AOF would too. Think the back 5 reserves are fine but going down the 6:2 route meant we had to pick someone who could cover multiple positions. Hence Daly.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
As recently as last season. Four games in a row for Sarries at one point. At the world cup Vs Chile as well.Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:16 pm The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
He's well past his best but he remains a good utility option.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Watching our replacement front row come on last week was incredibly underwhelming. Not sure whether to laugh or cry when seeing Heyes.
At least George will bring a bit more grunt to it
- Oakboy
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:19 pmWe can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:16 pm The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Rodd’s jackal threat and carrying would be far more impactful than Baxter- as you say his form is better. Dan on the bench far more impactful than George with his carrying and athleticism. AOF possibly the same vs Heyes although I’d be cautious with AOF.Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:19 pmWe can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:16 pm The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
Agree on Randall re his natural game but it’ll take a long time before I forget that woeful pass to Ford for the NZ drop goal. I just don’t think he’s good at scrum half basics which gets found out at international level. I’d go Spencer, then Porter before him presuming JVP and quirke aren’t fit. A fit Quirke would 100% be my number 2 scrum half.
Chessum and CCS are fine although CCS looks more and more like a bit of a project we can’t afford at the moment.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Yeah cause this is the game to throw on our smallest possible front row. Rodd is 50/50 at scrum time, he's improved an awful lot but he's not going to be scaring the absolute monsters France have. Dan loses out to the more experienced guys, yeah I quite like him on the bench so would have quite liked him there but see where Simple Ballwin is going in wanting George's leadership in the second half and hopefully his quality lineout throwing. AOF has one cap and has been overplayed by Sale this season. The 6N is a good way for him to learn in camp and to push a rest on his body not force him to scrummage and tackle some of the biggest and best forwards the NH has to offer. He's giving away two stone to our other tightheads who are smaller than the French monsters.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:26 pm Dan would offer more impact from the bench. Possibly Rodd and AOF would too. Think the back 5 reserves are fine but going down the 6:2 route meant we had to pick someone who could cover multiple positions. Hence Daly.
- Oakboy
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
More grunt than LCD? Not sure about that. Better line-out throw but even that is weird if Chessum and CCS are on by the time George appears - he'd be needed more with starting line-out options, I'd have thought. I'd have preferredveither of the other two hookers for impact.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
I would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not jokingOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pmInteresting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:19 pmWe can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:16 pm The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Sadly Quirke is never fit for long enough to get selected. Shame he'd have at least 20 caps by now if he'd just stop breaking.Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pmInteresting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:19 pmWe can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:16 pm The first 15 is ok once I get over the continuance of Slade at 12 and concerns about lineout. It feels like it’s quite close.
The bench is just utterly depressing though. The whole front row are safe bets- not players who are going to impact the game really. I’m not sure Randall ever makes it at international level and Daly is well past his best- yes he covers 3 roles but he hasn’t played outside centre for an age and he doesn’t have the legs to be a test wing. Not sure what sort of impact he’ll have off the bench in an attacking or defending sense.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
Issue for Randall is that his natural game is picking and going from dominant carries before the defence has had time to reset. International defences are a) generally to well organised for that and b) England don't make enough dominant carries. Leaves us with a 9 who's passing and kicking are well below international standard.
- Oakboy
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
You'd want him tackling Dupont?p/d wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:36 pmI would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not jokingOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pmInteresting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:19 pm
We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
I remember that being a running thing 5 or so years back. "Best scrum half England never had" etc.p/d wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:36 pmI would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not jokingOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pmInteresting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:19 pm
We can’t pick what we don’t have. Which props do we have that are going to offer that impact? We don’t have a ‘bomb squad’.
Personally, I’d have gone for Rodd over Baxter on recent form, but that’s a 50:50 anyway.
I’d argue Chessum and CCS are good impact players. Randall could be if he played his game rather than box kicking.
He played scrum half for 10 mins when Wigglesworth was sin binned Vs Saints in Tigers title winning season . He was sensational. Mind you he was in imperious form at the time. Same game where he caught the long goal line drop out and calmly slotted the drop goal.
Shame he's so often broken and Sale don't look after him these days.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
You need more than one man tackling Dupont to make it stick...Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:38 pmYou'd want him tackling Dupont?p/d wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:36 pmI would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not jokingOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pm
Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
More grunt to a replacement front row, not over LCDOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:35 pmMore grunt than LCD? Not sure about that. Better line-out throw but even that is weird if Chessum and CCS are on by the time George appears - he'd be needed more with starting line-out options, I'd have thought. I'd have preferredveither of the other two hookers for impact.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Do think he could have been!FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:41 pmI remember that being a running thing 5 or so years back. "Best scrum half England never had" etc.p/d wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:36 pmI would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not jokingOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pm
Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.
He played scrum half for 10 mins when Wigglesworth was sin binned Vs Saints in Tigers title winning season . He was sensational. Mind you he was in imperious form at the time. Same game where he caught the long goal line drop out and calmly slotted the drop goal.
Shame he's so often broken and Sale don't look after him these days.
I find all our current crop of 9’s a bit meh. But we have to do with what we got
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Horses for courses or lipstick on a pig.....we shall see.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
He won’t have to. They will sub him off once they are 36 plus points to the good.Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:38 pmYou'd want him tackling Dupont?p/d wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:36 pmI would have been running endless training sessions with Ford at 9. And no I’m not jokingOakboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:31 pm
Interesting last sentence. Maybe, he'll have different instructions if Fin is still at 10 when he comes on. Is the box-kicking pure 'Wigglesworth'? Randall on the bench and box-kicking are contradictions in terms the more I think aboout it. Whatever the logic is, I hope it's not an indication of muddled thinking amongst the coaching crew. If he's fit, I'd have picked Quirke.
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
I've long wished that English coaches could do the whole SH/FH thing the French have down pat, and the Saffers occasionally throw up. So many transferable skills.
Lamb, Ford, Marcus - all would have made brilliant SH/FH options - had they trained it from young enough.
Instead, our age-grade coaches seem to use SH for "not fast enough for wing, not calm enough for FH, not strong enough for centre - guess you're a SH then!"
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Re: England v France Saturday Feb 8th 16h45
Absolutely!!!Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:51 pmI've long wished that English coaches could do the whole SH/FH thing the French have down pat, and the Saffers occasionally throw up. So many transferable skills.
Lamb, Ford, Marcus - all would have made brilliant SH/FH options - had they trained it from young enough.
Instead, our age-grade coaches seem to use SH for "not fast enough for wing, not calm enough for FH, not strong enough for centre - guess you're a SH then!"
Though I do recall Youngs getting a go at wing