RugbyRebels

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:38 pm Was it just me seeing a forward pass in the build up to the last Ireland try? It's behind the cut of the grass.. then passed long and is then in front of it, the hands even go forwards imo.

Murley's not had a great game defensively. Did well for England's late try though.

TMO hasn't been interested all game. Waste of a salary.

Murley looked good in attack. Just went to pieces under pressure when taking kicks in his own 22. The slightly dodgy tackle on Conan saved a try. He cost gave Ireland position for two though.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:36 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:28 pm Murley’s head went 10/15/20 mins ago. He should’ve bee hooked but a 6:2 bench and/or the spreadsheet meant it didn’t/couldn’t happen.

Borthwick has decided to chase the game and the decision is to keep the free scoring winger on. You don't expect an experienced to keep soiling the bed for routine moments.

Now Freeman has a go at missing a routine tackle out wide.

I know why the decision was made. I’m arguing it was wrong or that his bench selection meant he had no decision to make.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:42 pm In terms of overall strategy over 80 minutes was that a management shambles? I think that was not much above 80% possible. SB is gone for me.

Not sure it was in his plan for us to kick too long, fall off tackles and Murley go to pieces under minimal pressure.

I don’t know what match Ben Kay has been watching but his commentary and analysis e.g. about the so called impact of Lawrence, is way off the mark. On the positive side Curry brothers worked well together ( Ben had his best match in an England shirt by far ) however for most of that second half England played like a piss poor pub team and they had no decent ball carriers whatsoever (maybe Stuart aside). The big men like Genge, Lawrence and especially Martin ( did he have one touch of the ball outside of lineouts?) simply didn’t get over the gain line. Genge looks past his best to me, Lawrence and Slade are a useless combination at test level and Ben Earl is underpowered to play no.8 - all of it quite predictable beforehand and I’m afraid this might be the last 6 Nations under the Borthwick tenure. PS Itoje isn’t a natural captain

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:36 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:28 pm Murley’s head went 10/15/20 mins ago. He should’ve bee hooked but a 6:2 bench and/or the spreadsheet meant it didn’t/couldn’t happen.

Borthwick has decided to chase the game and the decision is to keep the free scoring winger on. You don't expect an experienced to keep soiling the bed for routine moments.

Now Freeman has a go at missing a routine tackle out wide.

I know why the decision was made. I’m arguing it was wrong or that his bench selection meant he had no decision to make.

I think we needed the forward impact on the bench. The forwards bench impact in the summer and autumn cost us games. We actually finished alright in the last 10ish minutes. The other 30 mins of the second half was awful though.

Ireland seemed to adapt well to our tactics at half time and then we just didn't go through phases well enough. CCS came on, gave a dumb penalty away for a misjudged tackle and then flies out in defence to leave a hole for a try. Yeah in hindsight bin off CCS and put Roebuck on the bench.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:42 pm In terms of overall strategy over 80 minutes was that a management shambles? I think that was not much above 80% possible. SB is gone for me.

Not sure it was in his plan for us to kick too long, fall off tackles and Murley go to pieces under minimal pressure.

His appalling performance cost as many tries as Steward today. So…

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:42 pm In terms of overall strategy over 80 minutes was that a management shambles? I think that was not much above 80% possible. SB is gone for me.

Not sure it was in his plan for us to kick too long, fall off tackles and Murley go to pieces under minimal pressure.

He’s the head coach who’s won nothing of note other than a smash and grab on Ireland last year. Let’s stop trying to blame the players for everything. Other than Randall.

Fin Smith looked comfortable when on. Eng knew this ref. needed managing and didn't do it very well. The BP was probs more than deserved, so can't complain.
T Curry appeared to be hobbling again late on, hopefully not a recurrance.

Let's leave moaning about the ref to the Welsh. England lost the composure after the Irish went ahead. Regardless of the call that's on England. Gutting but so it goes. The BP was deserved.

What did people make of Willis? I'd lost the ability to pay attention to his play by that stage, sadly.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:46 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:36 pm

Borthwick has decided to chase the game and the decision is to keep the free scoring winger on. You don't expect an experienced to keep soiling the bed for routine moments.

Now Freeman has a go at missing a routine tackle out wide.

I know why the decision was made. I’m arguing it was wrong or that his bench selection meant he had no decision to make.

I think we needed the forward impact on the bench. The forwards bench impact in the summer and autumn cost us games. We actually finished alright in the last 10ish minutes. The other 30 mins of the second half was awful though.

Ireland seemed to adapt well to our tactics at half time and then we just didn't go through phases well enough. CCS came on, gave a dumb penalty away for a misjudged tackle and then flies out in defence to leave a hole for a try. Yeah in hindsight bin off CCS and put Roebuck on the bench.

Every oppo seem to adapt to our tactics at halftime…
If you pick a 6:2 bench and it leaves you hamstrung in the backs then I’ve no sympathy for you.

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm Let's leave moaning about the ref to the Welsh.

This. A hundred times, this.

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:45 pm I don’t know what match Ben Kay has been watching but his commentary and analysis e.g. about the so called impact of Lawrence, is way off the mark. On the positive side Curry brothers worked well together however for most of that second half England played like a piss poor pub team and they had no decent ball carriers whatsoever (maybe Stuart aside). The big men like Genge, Lawrence and especially Martin ( did he have one touch of the ball outside of lineouts?) simply didn’t get over the gain line. Genge looks past his best to me, Lawrence and Slade are a useless combination at test level and Ben Earl is underpowered to play no.8 - all of it quite predictable beforehand and I’m afraid this might be the last 6 Nations under the Borthwick tenure. PS Itoje isn’t a natural captain

Lawrence was 37m, five defenders beaten and 12 tackles. 44m for Genge. Martin only 15m but 14 tackles.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:28 pm T Cuzza has been immense.

Indeed. Thought Lawrence class today

And I just love Dan

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm What did people make of Willis? I'd lost the ability to pay attention to his play by that stage, sadly.

Didn't have enough ball after he came on to really make much use of him.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:49 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm Let's leave moaning about the ref to the Welsh.

This. A hundred times, this.

Aye

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:52 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm What did people make of Willis? I'd lost the ability to pay attention to his play by that stage, sadly.

Didn't have enough ball after he came on to really make much use of him.

His tackle steal then metres made was good

I agree that I don’t get the point of Genge anymore.

Other than that, nah. That was Laurence’s best game for England.

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:47 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:42 pm In terms of overall strategy over 80 minutes was that a management shambles? I think that was not much above 80% possible. SB is gone for me.

Not sure it was in his plan for us to kick too long, fall off tackles and Murley go to pieces under minimal pressure.

His appalling performance cost as many tries as Steward today. So…

I don't think Murley was appalling, he looked good in attack and he chased kicks well tackling man and ball. His mistakes might well cost him his place though. Once you could overlook.

Steward over committed and got stepped for one. He looked good in the first half, didn't feature much in the second half.

Both looked good when they got the ball in hand, we just didn't have enough of that during the game.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:53 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:52 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm What did people make of Willis? I'd lost the ability to pay attention to his play by that stage, sadly.

Didn't have enough ball after he came on to really make much use of him.

His tackle steal then metres made was good

Yeah that was class. Hopefully he starts next weekend so we can have a better look. Don't think we'll persevere with these tactics, was a one off for this game I think.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:49 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm Let's leave moaning about the ref to the Welsh.

This. A hundred times, this.

Noted, but we did certainly get a run of very unlucky decisions in a row which deprived us of possession and territory. Very hard to win a match without the ball and, while you sometimes get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't, I find it hard to blame the players or Silky Ballkicking for having several turnovers for things that weren't their fault.

Puja

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:48 pm Let's leave moaning about the ref to the Welsh. England lost the composure after the Irish went ahead. Regardless of the call that's on England. Gutting but so it goes. The BP was deserved.

What did people make of Willis? I'd lost the ability to pay attention to his play by that stage, sadly.

I can’t agree. The invention of that penalty was a total game changer.

We didn’t lose the game because of it, but it was total fantasy and was a momentum swing, that simply should not happen.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:55 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:47 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

Not sure it was in his plan for us to kick too long, fall off tackles and Murley go to pieces under minimal pressure.

His appalling performance cost as many tries as Steward today. So…

I don't think Murley was appalling, he looked good in attack and he chased kicks well tackling man and ball. His mistakes might well cost him his place though. Once you could overlook.

Steward over committed and got stepped for one. He looked good in the first half, didn't feature much in the second half.

Both looked good when they got the ball in hand, we just didn't have enough of that during the game.

I’m not sure Sleightholme would have done any better TBH.

2 good tries at the end to take a BP but overall that second half left a great deal to be desired. Lost a lot of bite in defence and constructed very little in attack. Players who did well up to h/t rather disappeared. Kicking has its place but we overdid it.
Thought Willis made a good impression.

Poor discipline again, missed too many 1 on 1s and punched ourselves out first half, lineout predictably iffy.

Let’s not kid ourselves, knocked Ireland out of their stride 1st half, but we were taken apart for 35 mins in the second.


Why we still kick the ball away when 17 points down with 7 mins to play is odd. Poor Murley, felt for him a bit whilst wtaf at the same time.

The quality of Murley is not strained. Or is it?