Wales v Argentina ...your team

[ALunpg]

We are all probably looking at the next match with the usual concerns that follow a poor display..is it a one off or a forecast of sorrow and woe till doomsday . So lets look at the team we beleive would do it for us.

I do not think Howley will go this way but that is not my job to think like him . So my selection is below and there ard no rights and wrongs ...just our opinions as supporters. My prime driver is to see if differant combinations work in the back line.

15. Liam Williams
14. Hallam Amos
13. Jonathan Davies
12. Scott Williams
11. Leigh Halfpenny
10. Dan Biggar
9. Gareth Davies
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ross Moriarty

REPLACEMENTS:
16. Scott Baldwin
17. Nicky Smith
18. Tomas Francis
19. Bradley Davies
20. Dan Lydiate
21. Rhys Williams
22. Sam Davies
23. George North

I would still seriously consider giving Gethin a rest and start Nicky Smith...
I also still like the idea of starting Sam Davies at 10..but I want him to get a bit more exposure time to the cgange if pace.

[Sandydragon]

I'd be seriously tempted by Sam Davies to start with Anscombe on the bench. The only argument I can think of for Biggar's place in the team is some requirement for stability with so many other changes.

Lydiate on the bench doesn't work for me. I see him as one of those players who needs to start, rather than an impact sub who can change a game. I'd prefer King. I think my only other concern is the lack of pace on the wings. Neither Halfpenny (as he is now) nor Amos look to have the sheer pace that Id like to see in a winger. Equally, both are talented players who can beat players and provide an offload so, in the absence of a ready alternative, that would have to do (nb can someone spend some time defensively with Gilles?!).

[MrK]

Carte Blanche ...


L Williams, Giles, Davies, Patchell, North , Davies, Davies
Smith, Parry, Lee, AWJ, Charteris, Warburton , Tipuric, Moriaty

Owens, Jenkins, Lewis, Davies, King, L Williams, S Williams, Halfpenny

What Id like to see from whats available

L Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Williams, North , Davies, Davies
Smith, Owens, Lee, AWJ, Charteris, Warburton , Tipuric, Moriaty

Baldwin, Jenkins, Francis, Davies, King, L Williams, Anscombe, Amos


What Id like to see for the 6N

L Williams, Giles, Davies, Patchell, North, Davies, Webb
Smith, Parry, Lee, AWJ, Charteris, Tipuric, Moriaty, Faletau

Owens, Jenkins, Lewis, Davies, Warburton, G Davies, S Williams, Halfpenny

[MrK]

By the way..what we will get

Halfpenny, L Williams, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Davies
Jenkins, Owens, Lee, AWJ, CHarteris, Lydiate, Warburton, Moriaty

Baldwin, Smith, Francis, Davies, King, LL Williams, Davies, Amos

Tipuric will be blamed and not chosen in the 15, King will be maintained for his versatility across the back row.

[bruce]

Carte Blanche ...


L Williams, Giles, Davies, Patchell, North , Davies, Davies
Smith, Parry, Lee, AWJ, Charteris, Warburton , Tipuric, Moriaty

Owens, Jenkins, Lewis, Davies, King, L Williams, S Williams, Halfpenny

What Id like to see from whats available

L Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Williams, North , Davies, Davies
Smith, Owens, Lee, AWJ, Charteris, Warburton , Tipuric, Moriaty

Baldwin, Jenkins, Francis, Davies, King, L Williams, Anscombe, Amos


What Id like to see for the 6N

L Williams, Giles, Davies, Patchell, North, Davies, Webb
Smith, Parry, Lee, AWJ, Charteris, Tipuric, Moriaty, Faletau

Owens, Jenkins, Lewis, Davies, Warburton, G Davies, S Williams, Halfpenny

Not seen this Giles play. Is he a better prospect than Steff Evans at the Scarlets?

[MrK]

More potential but Evans is the more rounded player at this point. That said...Id fling Giles in and try him out. If youre good enough youre old enough and theres only one way to find out. Argentina and Japan will be a good test for him - one quality, one we "should" put points on. If he performs well in both of those..why not SA and the 6N.

[Numbers]

Interesting to see that most are opting to stick with Tipuric and get rid of Lydiate, odd thinking being as we were outmuscled by the Aussie pack.

I take it no-one watched the Os get beaten and Giles continually targeted for being out of position or with the high ball?

He is far to new to professional rugby for him to be considered at International rugby level atm, it's all very well saying "if you're good enough you're old enough", unfortunately he isn't good enough yet, I seem to remember the same thing being said about Prydie and Harry Robinson, both of whom failed to get to the requisite level and Robinson not even regional level.

[Son of Mathonwy]

We are all probably looking at the next match with the usual concerns that follow a poor display..is it a one off or a forecast of sorrow and woe till doomsday . So lets look at the team we beleive would do it for us.

I do not think Howley will go this way but that is not my job to think like him . So my selection is below and there ard no rights and wrongs ...just our opinions as supporters. My prime driver is to see if differant combinations work in the back line.

15. Liam Williams
14. Hallam Amos
13. Jonathan Davies
12. Scott Williams
11. Leigh Halfpenny
10. Dan Biggar
9. Gareth Davies
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ross Moriarty

REPLACEMENTS:
16. Scott Baldwin
17. Nicky Smith
18. Tomas Francis
19. Bradley Davies
20. Dan Lydiate
21. Rhys Williams
22. Sam Davies
23. George North

I would still seriously consider giving Gethin a rest and start Nicky Smith...
I also still like the idea of starting Sam Davies at 10..but I want him to get a bit more exposure time to the cgange if pace.

I pretty much agree with this team. North and Roberts need to be shown that there are consequences to being mediocre. I'd love to see what Sam Davies can do but it's more sensible to sub him on with 20 mins to go at this stage in his career. I'd like to see Giles playing in the Japan game, but it's too early for him to be playing the Argies. I've no problems with Lydiate as a sub, Warburton is the more rounded player, so if he's up to speed, let him start.

Oh yeah, AWJ for captain, but that ain't going to happen.

[Numbers]

Well Liam and Jake Ball are due to return to fitness, no news on Faletau or Foxy atm.

[MrK]

Interesting to see that most are opting to stick with Tipuric and get rid of Lydiate, odd thinking being as we were outmuscled by the Aussie pack.

I take it no-one watched the Os get beaten and Giles continually targeted for being out of position or with the high ball?

He is far to new to professional rugby for him to be considered at International rugby level atm, it's all very well saying "if you're good enough you're old enough", unfortunately he isn't good enough yet, I seem to remember the same thing being said about Prydie and Harry Robinson, both of whom failed to get to the requisite level and Robinson not even regional level.

Lydiate was part of that pack that was outmuscled too. Whenever the pack get outmuscled and Tipuric has played he always bears the brunt. Theres another 7 forwards out there (with the exception of Moriaty) who also got outmuscled. For me its about the style we want to play and the intent at which we play it. Lydiate doesnt offer enough all around game options for me - Id have King, Moriaty and a number of others ahead of him. For me Tipuric starts.

I know what you are saying about Giles but Cuthbert has had his day in the sun and did well enough to get selected for the Lions, he gets targeted too as he did early on on Saturday, he just doesnt cut it for me...Im hoping North was just an off day..for me Amos hasnt got the speed to be a top international winger...I think Giles might.. I want to see if he can.

[ALunpg]

Interesting to see that most are opting to stick with Tipuric and get rid of Lydiate, odd thinking being as we were outmuscled by the Aussie pack.

I take it no-one watched the Os get beaten and Giles continually targeted for being out of position or with the high ball?

He is far to new to professional rugby for him to be considered at International rugby level atm, it's all very well saying "if you're good enough you're old enough", unfortunately he isn't good enough yet, I seem to remember the same thing being said about Prydie and Harry Robinson, both of whom failed to get to the requisite level and Robinson not even regional level.

100 % agree about Giles. And yes I DID watch the Ospreys and cringed Munster tested him with great accuracy and were on the button. It is too early for him in my books and I hate the way the media pumps up the lad , let him learn his proffesional craft. He shows promise but he has to learn, thd big thing is can he learn that lesson as we have enough who can not defend effectively, this will only come with time.

I did think about Tipuric in the breakdown but honestly I was not overly knocked out by Lydiate He looked like many others, he just seemed undercooked . Maybe I need to have another look at the match to check if my match day thoughts were really vindicated, would not be the first time my game day passion overcame the cold reality of the Monday review.

WIthout Falateu I am not 100 % sure what is best to get the bslance right , but there is an argument for either way .
I have deleted my 4 nations matches to go check, but how is the Argentina back row looking these days?

But as always intersting stuff .

[Spiffy]

Interesting to see that most are opting to stick with Tipuric and get rid of Lydiate, odd thinking being as we were outmuscled by the Aussie pack.

I take it no-one watched the Os get beaten and Giles continually targeted for being out of position or with the high ball?

He is far to new to professional rugby for him to be considered at International rugby level atm, it's all very well saying "if you're good enough you're old enough", unfortunately he isn't good enough yet, I seem to remember the same thing being said about Prydie and Harry Robinson, both of whom failed to get to the requisite level and Robinson not even regional level.

100 % agree about Giles. And yes I DID watch the Ospreys and cringed Munster tested him with great accuracy and were on the button. It is too early for him in my books and I hate the way the media pumps up the lad , let him learn his proffesional craft. He shows promise but he has to learn, thd big thing is can he learn that lesson as we have enough who can not defend effectively, this will only come with time.

I did think about Tipuric in the breakdown but honestly I was not overly knocked out by Lydiate He looked like many others, he just seemed undercooked . Maybe I need to have another look at the match to check if my match day thoughts were really vindicated, would not be the first time my game day passion overcame the cold reality of the Monday review.

WIthout Falateu I am not 100 % sure what is best to get the bslance right , but there is an argument for either way .
I have deleted my 4 nations matches to go check, but how is the Argentina back row looking these days?

But as always intersting stuff .

Awesome. Their No.8, Isa (just 22) is the probably the world's form player in that slot at present and they always seem to have a few big athletic flankers available. But never mind the backrow, they have some cracking backs with gas and skill now.

[wayneha50]

If we're going with the same gameplan then it doesn't really matter who plays. I don't expect it to happen but I'd love to see someone like Patchell play at 12. He's big, fast, an elusive runner, has a good kicking game & good distribution skills. I fully expect there to be minimal changes against Argentina & the coaches reaction to this is usually more of Plan A. Unless there is a miraculous improvement I can see Argentina winning & it could be quite comfortable for them.

[Sandydragon]

Patchell looks like the sort of player who could do well at 12, a Henson esque convert. But I'm not sure his defence is all that great, albeit the last time I saw him in a Welsh shirt and struggling in defence it was at full back. I think, Id go with Scott Williams at the moment who has an all round centre game, but looks far better at 12 than 13. The potential coming through surely has to be Owen Watkin who certainly has the bulk that many centres seem to need these days plus some decent soft skills to go with it.

I'll generally be happy if we actually use some offensive tactics like dummy runners rather than one player taking the ball to the line over and over again.

[Numbers]

Interesting to see that most are opting to stick with Tipuric and get rid of Lydiate, odd thinking being as we were outmuscled by the Aussie pack.

I take it no-one watched the Os get beaten and Giles continually targeted for being out of position or with the high ball?

He is far to new to professional rugby for him to be considered at International rugby level atm, it's all very well saying "if you're good enough you're old enough", unfortunately he isn't good enough yet, I seem to remember the same thing being said about Prydie and Harry Robinson, both of whom failed to get to the requisite level and Robinson not even regional level.

100 % agree about Giles. And yes I DID watch the Ospreys and cringed Munster tested him with great accuracy and were on the button. It is too early for him in my books and I hate the way the media pumps up the lad , let him learn his proffesional craft. He shows promise but he has to learn, thd big thing is can he learn that lesson as we have enough who can not defend effectively, this will only come with time.

I did think about Tipuric in the breakdown but honestly I was not overly knocked out by Lydiate He looked like many others, he just seemed undercooked . Maybe I need to have another look at the match to check if my match day thoughts were really vindicated, would not be the first time my game day passion overcame the cold reality of the Monday review.

WIthout Falateu I am not 100 % sure what is best to get the bslance right , but there is an argument for either way .
I have deleted my 4 nations matches to go check, but how is the Argentina back row looking these days?

But as always intersting stuff .

Awesome. Their No.8, Isa (just 22) is the probably the world's form player in that slot at present and they always seem to have a few big athletic flankers available. But never mind the backrow, they have some cracking backs with gas and skill now.

Isa is indeed a revelation, excellent ball carrier, perhaps why we need some very strong tacklers.

The Argentinian backs have been pretty much the same players for a few years now but seem to have prospered from some new tactics since joining the 4 nations championship.

[Sandydragon]

So the latest news from the Welsh camp (according to the Fail):

Amos is out with a shoulder injury (gutted for him to be fair)
Gilles is called into the squad. Will Howley take a punt on him starting or is he going to warm the bench behind Cuthbert and North?

The team should have been announced today but apparently has been postponed until 1100 on Thursday to allow time for a medical assessment of Liam WIlliams. Hopefully Liam is fully fit because he has certainly been in superb form thus far this season.

[bruce]

So the latest news from the Welsh camp (according to the Fail):

Amos is out with a shoulder injury (gutted for him to be fair)
Gilles is called into the squad. Will Howley take a punt on him starting or is he going to warm the bench behind Cuthbert and North?

The team should have been announced today but apparently has been postponed until 1100 on Thursday to allow time for a medical assessment of Liam WIlliams. Hopefully Liam is fully fit because he has certainly been in superb form thus far this season.

I don't want to be an advocate of big backs and wingers, but this Giles lad is 5'8 or 5'9 and 12st which seems particularly small for present day International Rugby. I've not see him play and even with the size disadvantage I'd take him over Cuthbert though.

[Numbers]

So the latest news from the Welsh camp (according to the Fail):

Amos is out with a shoulder injury (gutted for him to be fair)
Gilles is called into the squad. Will Howley take a punt on him starting or is he going to warm the bench behind Cuthbert and North?

The team should have been announced today but apparently has been postponed until 1100 on Thursday to allow time for a medical assessment of Liam WIlliams. Hopefully Liam is fully fit because he has certainly been in superb form thus far this season.

I don't want to be an advocate of big backs and wingers, but this Giles lad is 5'8 or 5'9 and 12st which seems particularly small for present day International Rugby. I've not see him play and even with the size disadvantage I'd take him over Cuthbert though.

With Argentina having small wingers you would expect the Wales setup to stick with the two big men.

[Sandydragon]

So the latest news from the Welsh camp (according to the Fail):

Amos is out with a shoulder injury (gutted for him to be fair)
Gilles is called into the squad. Will Howley take a punt on him starting or is he going to warm the bench behind Cuthbert and North?

The team should have been announced today but apparently has been postponed until 1100 on Thursday to allow time for a medical assessment of Liam WIlliams. Hopefully Liam is fully fit because he has certainly been in superb form thus far this season.

I don't want to be an advocate of big backs and wingers, but this Giles lad is 5'8 or 5'9 and 12st which seems particularly small for present day International Rugby. I've not see him play and even with the size disadvantage I'd take him over Cuthbert though.

With Argentina having small wingers you would expect the Wales setup to stick with the two big men.

I look forward to small Argentine wingers running rings around 2 clumsy Welsh counterparts. To be fair, North has been generally effective with ball in hand in the last few games, enough to counterbalance his defensive issues (why do we never seem to see any improvement? I'll wager that a Kiwi with issues on positioning would improve pretty damn quickly or would disappear from the international scene). Cuthbert has been much better for Cardiff of late, but doesn't have the same level of credit in the bank at international level. If he cant finish tries, then perhaps its time for someone else to have a go, and I do like the idea of having a big powerful winger balanced by a more elusive one. If Liam is fit then our back three will surely be Liam, Halfpenny and North in some combination, so the question is who will offer more from the bench?

[Numbers]

I don't want to be an advocate of big backs and wingers, but this Giles lad is 5'8 or 5'9 and 12st which seems particularly small for present day International Rugby. I've not see him play and even with the size disadvantage I'd take him over Cuthbert though.

With Argentina having small wingers you would expect the Wales setup to stick with the two big men.

I look forward to small Argentine wingers running rings around 2 clumsy Welsh counterparts. To be fair, North has been generally effective with ball in hand in the last few games, enough to counterbalance his defensive issues (why do we never seem to see any improvement? I'll wager that a Kiwi with issues on positioning would improve pretty damn quickly or would disappear from the international scene). Cuthbert has been much better for Cardiff of late, but doesn't have the same level of credit in the bank at international level. If he cant finish tries, then perhaps its time for someone else to have a go, and I do like the idea of having a big powerful winger balanced by a more elusive one. If Liam is fit then our back three will surely be Liam, Halfpenny and North in some combination, so the question is who will offer more from the bench?

[Numbers]

I assume you're referring to the Kuidrani sp? try, you see he was damned if he did or damned if he didn't in that situation, he should stay with the outside man and rely on the inside defence as far as I see it.

Agreed regarding North, Williams, Halfpenny, the best bench option would have been Amos but will now be Cuthbert unfortunately, I'd rather see Steff Evans get a go taking his current form into account.

[fatterfullback]

Amos out, Giles officially part of the squad.

[TibetanBlue]

What's happened to Anscombe? Is he injured? If so, who are the 10s in the squad? Just Biggar and Davies (if so worrying!)

I'd have a back row of 6, Turnbull, 7, Tipuric, 8, Moriarty
Turnbull has been consisently excellent for the Blues the past few seasons and is far more dynamic than Lydiate who's useless
The above is a pipedream so failing that I'd like to see 6, Warburton, 7, Tipuric and 8, Moriarty (with King on the bench)
What we will see is the exact same back row as last week...

I too would be happy to see Roberts 'rested' for a few games - giving Williams and Davies the chance to show what they can do togehter (how have they performed together for the Scarlets?)

Finally, fingers crossed that Liam is fit. North is a shadow of his former self and Cuthbert is still struggling (those saying he's played well for Cardiff are incorrect, he;s only played 2-3 games and mediocre during them)

[Numbers]

What's happened to Anscombe? Is he injured? If so, who are the 10s in the squad? Just Biggar and Davies (if so worrying!)

I'd have a back row of 6, Turnbull, 7, Tipuric, 8, Moriarty
Turnbull has been consisently excellent for the Blues the past few seasons and is far more dynamic than Lydiate who's useless
The above is a pipedream so failing that I'd like to see 6, Warburton, 7, Tipuric and 8, Moriarty (with King on the bench)
What we will see is the exact same back row as last week...

I too would be happy to see Roberts 'rested' for a few games - giving Williams and Davies the chance to show what they can do togehter (how have they performed together for the Scarlets?)

Finally, fingers crossed that Liam is fit. North is a shadow of his former self and Cuthbert is still struggling (those saying he's played well for Cardiff are incorrect, he;s only played 2-3 games and mediocre during them)

Anscombe is in the squad, he's been usurped by Sam Davies, a shame for Anscombe as he has been improving quite steadily, I'd have him above Biggar in the pecking order as at least he takes the ball to the gainline well.

Turnbull is not on the radar it seems, likewise Navidi who has probably been the most consistent backrower in Wales over the last few seasons (Faletau excepted).

[ALunpg]

Could Anscombe be on the bench with Lloyd Williams and Sam Davies .?