WTF has happened to French rugby?

[Donny osmond]

I've heard about the club v country thing so kinda get the gist, but srsly they are terrible right now. Alright they can run a defensive pattern, but give them the ball and just........ literally nothing.

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[cashead]

I've heard about the club v country thing so kinda get the gist, but srsly they are terrible right now. Alright they can run a defensive pattern, but give them the ball and just........ literally nothing.

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Seems to be largely symptomatic of European rugby, TBH.

[Donny osmond]

This true. Wales' Gatball is the most exciting thing we can produce as a continent.

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[cashead]

This true. Wales' Gatball is the most exciting thing we can produce as a continent.

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From decrying Super Rugby as "basketball rugby," comparing it to 7s, ignoring a lack of skill and defending it by going on about "passion" and "bruising forward play," and yammering about how it's for the purists says quite a lot. All it does is perpetuate a lack of imagination and create a generation of players who only know how to play one kind of rugby, so when they're confronted by teams that can do all sorts of styles of play, they end up getting kicked around the field. That's why the European teams get their heads kicked in every June, and then get smacked around in their own neck of the woods every November, and that's why the semifinals were an all-SH affair - even taking into account the nature of Australia's win over Scotland. The SH teams can adapt to pretty much any condition, and can play all sorts of rugby, and are encouraged to have a go, and when at the end of the game, when a Kiwi commentator like Tony Johnson says "well, that was one for the purists," it's basically code for "yeah, that game sucked didn't it?"

[UKHamlet]

This true. Wales' Gatball is the most exciting thing we can produce as a continent.

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From decrying Super Rugby as "basketball rugby," comparing it to 7s, ignoring a lack of skill and defending it by going on about "passion" and "bruising forward play," and yammering about how it's for the purists says quite a lot. All it does is perpetuate a lack of imagination and create a generation of players who only know how to play one kind of rugby, so when they're confronted by teams that can do all sorts of styles of play, they end up getting kicked around the field. That's why the European teams get their heads kicked in every June, and then get smacked around in their own neck of the woods every November, and that's why the semifinals were an all-SH affair - even taking into account the nature of Australia's win over Scotland. The SH teams can adapt to pretty much any condition, and can play all sorts of rugby, and are encouraged to have a go, and when at the end of the game, when a Kiwi commentator like Tony Johnson says "well, that was one for the purists," it's basically code for "yeah, that game sucked didn't it?"

I blame it on the Southern Hemisphere. You'll note that apart from the French, all our national coaches are from your shitty little hole.

[Adder]

After 4 years with PSA/Blanco in the Background is was bound to be a bit rusty!

I actually thought they showed signs of promise today. Defensively they were up for it appart from the Benny Hill moment.
Attack is an issue, Plisson doesn't attack the line enough and his distribution is poor, I think with Trin dhuc earlier on, thing will flow more.
This is Noves third game and their 6 nations goal is to test things.

Guirado, Jedraziak, Lauret, Goujon, Chat, Camarra, Watakawa, Flanquart, Lauret, all the props, are very good players.
They need to develop an attacking system, unfortunately Plisson doesn't seem to be the man around which to build the team.

I beluieve they will spark sometimes soon, probably against Scotland.

[Matt Ha]

It's kind of amazing just how bad they are, even more so when you think of the talent they still have available. Yesterday's game was poor with France doing their best to look like Italy. When was the last time the French won the 6N?

[Adder]

It's kind of amazing just how bad they are, even more so when you think of the talent they still have available. Yesterday's game was poor with France doing their best to look like Italy. When was the last time the French won the 6N?

They last won in 2010. It's been a hard 4 years under PSA. They were especially bad in the first half.
Welsh were very lucky in the second, both for the try and(imho) for not getting a yellow card.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

This true. Wales' Gatball is the most exciting thing we can produce as a continent.

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From decrying Super Rugby as "basketball rugby," comparing it to 7s, ignoring a lack of skill and defending it by going on about "passion" and "bruising forward play," and yammering about how it's for the purists says quite a lot. All it does is perpetuate a lack of imagination and create a generation of players who only know how to play one kind of rugby, so when they're confronted by teams that can do all sorts of styles of play, they end up getting kicked around the field. That's why the European teams get their heads kicked in every June, and then get smacked around in their own neck of the woods every November, and that's why the semifinals were an all-SH affair - even taking into account the nature of Australia's win over Scotland. The SH teams can adapt to pretty much any condition, and can play all sorts of rugby, and are encouraged to have a go, and when at the end of the game, when a Kiwi commentator like Tony Johnson says "well, that was one for the purists," it's basically code for "yeah, that game sucked didn't it?"

I watched last nights game and watched a few games of Super Rugby and the mystery to me is how the f do you guys actually ever manage not to thump us, never mind actually lose occasionally. The skill levels and supporting lines are night and day.

[Stones of granite]

In answer to the OP : structured rugby
Sucks the life out of the game. You could always rely on the French for some flair, now they play to to structures and patterns. I hate this shit.

[cashead]

In answer to the OP : structured rugby
Sucks the life out of the game. You could always rely on the French for some flair, now they play to to structures and patterns. I hate this shit.

Structure and creativity aren't mutually exclusive though. Look at the All Blacks, particularly their demolition job on France in the quarterfinal last year - They have their established patterns and structures, which incorporates creativity and spontaneity.

[whatisthejava]

If we want to have the skill levels of the sh then we need summer rugby, the sh players are better because they play in weather which allows them to develop skills, we play in weather that rewards scrums and line outs

[cashead]

If we want to have the skill levels of the sh then we need summer rugby, the sh players are better because they play in weather which allows them to develop skills, we play in weather that rewards scrums and line outs

Bullshit.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

If we want to have the skill levels of the sh then we need summer rugby, the sh players are better because they play in weather which allows them to develop skills, we play in weather that rewards scrums and line outs

Aye cos it never rains in Dunedin or Wellington or Christchurch or Cape Town.

[francoisfou]

There are inherent problems in French rugby that aren't going to go away.
Firstly, there are too many foreigners playing in the Top14 and in ProD2 (where've we heard that before?) that are stifling the opportunities for French qualified players to play at the highest level.
Secondly, the national side does not have priority with the FFR and several squad players turned out for their clubs last weekend.
Thirdly, incompetent coaches had been at the helm of the French XV for too long - Lièvremont and St André should never have been appointed. Guy Novès, I believe, was offered the job some time ago but turned it down - could you blame him, but he's in charge now and is gradually introducing new, younger players into the squad. However, he shouldn't be judged on his team's performance in this season's 6N - although the knives of the French press are undoubtedly being sharpened now.
They've won two games out of three and if they win a third game then Novès will be quite happy.
However, changes will have to be made high up in the FFR - I think there are way too many "old farts" clinging on to their jobs on the committees. Send those buggers to the guillotine and then progress will be seen to be made.

[BigAl]

French clubs acting as retirement plans for SH former internationalists doesn't help them develop talent.

[francoisfou]

French clubs acting as retirement plans for SH former internationalists doesn't help them develop talent.

Exactly!

[whatisthejava]

If we want to have the skill levels of the sh then we need summer rugby, the sh players are better because they play in weather which allows them to develop skills, we play in weather that rewards scrums and line outs

Bullshit.

Aye, nothing improved skills like standing in the pishing rain with mud up to your ankles for 1/2 the season

Every year we play touch over the summer and by the end the skills have improved 10 fold, 4 months later they have disappeared due to the dark, wind, wet nights.

[Cameo]

If we want to have the skill levels of the sh then we need summer rugby, the sh players are better because they play in weather which allows them to develop skills, we play in weather that rewards scrums and line outs

Bullshit.

Aye, nothing improved skills like standing in the pishing rain with mud up to your ankles for 1/2 the season

Every year we play touch over the summer and by the end the skills have improved 10 fold, 4 months later they have disappeared due to the dark, wind, wet nights.

I know it is not everything but I'm with you on this. It is not just that the conditions make it easier to do it is also the added confidence that they give. If you know someone can probs catch a pass even if it is not perfect as it is a dry ball and they are warm you are more likely to go for it. Also the dry pitch just speeds up the game

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Bullshit.

Aye, nothing improved skills like standing in the pishing rain with mud up to your ankles for 1/2 the season

Every year we play touch over the summer and by the end the skills have improved 10 fold, 4 months later they have disappeared due to the dark, wind, wet nights.

I know it is not everything but I'm with you on this. It is not just that the conditions make it easier to do it is also the added confidence that they give. If you know someone can probs catch a pass even if it is not perfect as it is a dry ball and they are warm you are more likely to go for it. Also the dry pitch just speeds up the game

It might be an argument were it not for the fact that Wellington has twice the annual rainfall of Edinburgh and is on the Cook Strait so suffers from abnormally high winds.

By which I mean it's a nonsense excuse that I wish people would stop trotting out without any thought or even a moderate google.

[Chunks Baws]

Aye, nothing improved skills like standing in the pishing rain with mud up to your ankles for 1/2 the season

Every year we play touch over the summer and by the end the skills have improved 10 fold, 4 months later they have disappeared due to the dark, wind, wet nights.

I know it is not everything but I'm with you on this. It is not just that the conditions make it easier to do it is also the added confidence that they give. If you know someone can probs catch a pass even if it is not perfect as it is a dry ball and they are warm you are more likely to go for it. Also the dry pitch just speeds up the game

It might be an argument were it not for the fact that Wellington has twice the annual rainfall of Edinburgh and is on the Cook Strait so suffers from abnormally high winds.

By which I mean it's a nonsense excuse that I wish people would stop trotting out without any thought or even a moderate google.

Having played a couple of seasons in Welly I confirm it is just as rank and cold there as it is in the UK. We had plenty games postponed due to waterlogged/ unplayable pitches too.

[Sandydragon]

In answer to the OP : structured rugby
Sucks the life out of the game. You could always rely on the French for some flair, now they play to to structures and patterns. I hate this shit.

Structure and creativity aren't mutually exclusive though. Look at the All Blacks, particularly their demolition job on France in the quarterfinal last year - They have their established patterns and structures, which incorporates creativity and spontaneity.

This. A blend of structure and the ability/trust to play heads up rugby.

Wales by contrast look like a rugby by numbers team.

[Cameo]

Aye, nothing improved skills like standing in the pishing rain with mud up to your ankles for 1/2 the season

Every year we play touch over the summer and by the end the skills have improved 10 fold, 4 months later they have disappeared due to the dark, wind, wet nights.

I know it is not everything but I'm with you on this. It is not just that the conditions make it easier to do it is also the added confidence that they give. If you know someone can probs catch a pass even if it is not perfect as it is a dry ball and they are warm you are more likely to go for it. Also the dry pitch just speeds up the game

It might be an argument were it not for the fact that Wellington has twice the annual rainfall of Edinburgh and is on the Cook Strait so suffers from abnormally high winds.

By which I mean it's a nonsense excuse that I wish people would stop trotting out without any thought or even a moderate google.

I'm afraid I still disagree with you on this. Im not saying you can't develop good skills in bad weather but I am saying that good weather is one factor that helps encourage good skills.

It is a fact that at my club at the beginning and the end of the season when it is dryer, warmer and lighter we have more open games and more people stay after training working on skills or just mucking around with a ball. If Wellington had better weather they would probably be even better!

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I know it is not everything but I'm with you on this. It is not just that the conditions make it easier to do it is also the added confidence that they give. If you know someone can probs catch a pass even if it is not perfect as it is a dry ball and they are warm you are more likely to go for it. Also the dry pitch just speeds up the game

It might be an argument were it not for the fact that Wellington has twice the annual rainfall of Edinburgh and is on the Cook Strait so suffers from abnormally high winds.

By which I mean it's a nonsense excuse that I wish people would stop trotting out without any thought or even a moderate google.

I'm afraid I still disagree with you on this. Im not saying you can't develop good skills in bad weather but I am saying that good weather is one factor that helps encourage good skills.

It is a fact that at my club at the beginning and the end of the season when it is dryer, warmer and lighter we have more open games and more people stay after training working on skills or just mucking around with a ball. If Wellington had better weather they would probably be even better!

I am saying that the idea that the better weather is any part of the reason for the difference in skill levels is nonsense. I'm not sure how it's possible to disagree unless you can say that the weather is not in fact worse in Wellington.

[Cameo]

It might be an argument were it not for the fact that Wellington has twice the annual rainfall of Edinburgh and is on the Cook Strait so suffers from abnormally high winds.

By which I mean it's a nonsense excuse that I wish people would stop trotting out without any thought or even a moderate google.

I'm afraid I still disagree with you on this. Im not saying you can't develop good skills in bad weather but I am saying that good weather is one factor that helps encourage good skills.

It is a fact that at my club at the beginning and the end of the season when it is dryer, warmer and lighter we have more open games and more people stay after training working on skills or just mucking around with a ball. If Wellington had better weather they would probably be even better!

I am saying that the idea that the better weather is any part of the reason for the difference in skill levels is nonsense. I'm not sure how it's possible to disagree unless you can say that the weather is not in fact worse in Wellington.

I think you're building a bit of a straw man argument here. The southern hemisphere rugby nations do a lot of things better than us and that leads to them having better skills.

I think the biggest help in Scotland would probably be more good coaches but another thing that would help improve skills in Scotland would be playing more of our rugby in better weather as this encourages a faster more open game and makes it more enjoyable for players practicing their skills. While I do not have the statistics I would put money on super rugby on average being played in better conditions than the Pro-12 and I think that this is one factor that helps them play at such pace.

What I am not saying is that every city in every southern hemisphere rugby has better weather than everywhere in Scotland. New Zealand has a very impressive system and a great rugby culture along with some fine athletes. We have less of that so the fact that we play in the dark, wet and cold holds us back (though not as much as the fact that most of us dont like rugby, we're fat and we dont have enough good coaches)