Ridiculously early ABs calls

[Len]

A lot of those players scream average to me. Bryn Hall especially. How you think he'll get past Smith, Perenara and Kerr-Barlow I'll never know. Parsons is old no? Buckman is a good player at super level but he doesn't look a test player to me. Charlie Ngatai is in the same boat.

[Len]

A lot of those players scream average to me. Bryn Hall especially. How you think he'll get past Smith, Perenara and Kerr-Barlow I'll never know. Parsons is old no? Buckman is a good player at super level but he doesn't look a test player to me. Charlie Ngatai is in the same boat.

Keep in mind that "doesn't look like a test player" is the exact criticism that was directed at Ben Smith back in 2009. It was a bullshit non-argument then, and it's a bullshit non-argument now.

Perenara was poor at the world cup, and has yet to prove himself at the test stage. Just because he was the 3rd string halfback last year doesn't mean his spot is set in stone.

Ngatai had a great 2015 for the Chiefs and was a key cog in just about everything that went right for them last year, and had a huge part in securing the Chiefs' win tonight. Damien McKenzie and Aaron Cruden may get the plaudits, but it would be hugely disingenuous to suggest Ngatai had nothing to do with it.

Buckman also had a huge hand in the Highlanders winning the comp last year, he can cover all back 3 positions and the midfield. He's a solid defender, tends to get over the gainline, his decision-making tends to be sound, and gets the ball to his supporters in contact more often than not. What's the problem?

And Parsons is in his late 20s, but so what? Or are you suggesting that there is a cut-off date for all test selections now? Does it operate under Logan's Run rules?

Buckman or Crotty? Bryn Hall is below average IMO, never impressed me. Brad Shields above Dixon and you're missing Savea junior unless hes with the 7s at the moment. I'd rather we looked at a younger hooker for development reasons than Parsons.

And people give Cantabrians shit about provincial bias. How many titles have harbour won?

Jurys still out on Damien McKenzie too. Its early days yet.

Don't know who said Smith doesn't look a test player, wasn't me though. When All Blacks are selected for the first time its usually not for how they are playing at present but how much potential they have. Dixon is at his ceiling IMO, as is Buckman and Ngatai.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Ben Smith doesn't look like a Test player" said no one ever.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Ben Smith doesn't look like a Test player" said no one ever.

Oh you'll be surprised. It was the exact statement made about him by several in the SHMB two incarnations of this board ago, and it was also directed at Anthony Boric and Adam Thomson back when they were within the selection frame in 2008~2009. I could also throw in comments like how Dane Coles was a "selection mistake" as well.

I would be surprised because I'm not exactly in infrequent visitor to the SHMB and whilst I certainly remember people preferring Dagg at various stages i don't recall a single person suggesting that Smith looked like he would never be capable of playing Test rugby.

I can completely understand it being directed at Boric, I don't recall it being directed at Thomson and yes it was directed at Coles. For the avoidanc o doubt I'm not suggesting that no one has used the phrase ever.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Whilst we're at it, no one has said that Ngatai had nothing to do with the Chiefs victory but surely the benchmark for being an AB is higher than mere presence? Going purely on the weekends games Moala was at least as good and Sa'u looks interesting. Looking more widely I'd be surprised if it weren't SBW and Fekitoa who were in prime position assuming that SBW comes back with the right conditioning. If Rene Ranger gets a haircut he could also be a contender.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Whilst we're at it, no one has said that Ngatai had nothing to do with the Chiefs victory but surely the benchmark for being an AB is higher than mere presence? Going purely on the weekends games Moala was at least as good and Sa'u looks interesting. Looking more widely I'd be surprised if it weren't SBW and Fekitoa who were in prime position assuming that SBW comes back with the right conditioning. If Rene Ranger gets a haircut he could also be a contender.

Ngatai had a quiet first half where play didn't go his way, but he was absolutely huge in the second half, frequently getting the Chiefs attacking momentum and being a rock in their midfield defence, making crucial tackles. Basically, he's the logical replacement for Conrad Smith, who would probably be the single biggest loss out of the All Blacks departures from last year.

Also, there is no way for Male Sa'u to ever play for the All Blacks, let alone be eligible. He's been capped 26 times by Japan since 2013, including that game against the Springboks.

Ngatai is definitely an option. I thought he had a very good season last year. I think it's the wrong approach to look for a natural replacement to Smith. I think yo want to pick the best team you can which to me is likely to be SBW and Fekitoa who I admire greatly.

I hadn't realised Sa'u was japanese. Was a new name to me so assumed he''d just come through the ranks.

[J Dory]

. If Rene Ranger gets a haircut he could also be a contender.

I'm hoping this is his year, when he came on he showed glimpses of what he's capable of. Agree about the haircut, currently looks like he could have animals living in that mane.

[Spy]

Could have been me on the Ben Smith call. I always thought he was an excellent footballer, but in his early years doubted he had the attacking X factor to be the best fullback in NZ. I was completely wrong in that, although in fairness to myself, I think Smith just kept getting better and better.

[Banquo]

How about Lowe from the Chiefs? Looks sparky. Agreed on Mackenzie looks very special to me.

[Lizard]

Statistically, we should try to avoid selecting any of:

Owen Franks
Corey Jane
Kieran Read
Jerome Kaino
Liam Messam

If we can leave them out, then no-one in the entire All Blacks playing squad will have any experience of losing a home test.

Personally, however, I would be prepared to for us to carry the 5 losing home caps that would come with Kieran (2), Kaino (2) and Franks (1).

[Lizard]

Tu'ungafasi looks a bit all horn and no balls to me - the sort of player who would be given Demi God status at the Ospreys or something but can't quite step up to All Black level. I hope he proves me wrong.

[Len]

Jason Woodward!

I wouldn't mind if a NH team poached him TBH.

[Maltarugby]

Tu'ungafasi looks a bit all horn and no balls to me - the sort of player who would be given Demi God status at the Ospreys or something but can't quite step up to All Black level. I hope he proves me wrong.

Tu'ungafasi is basically the Auckland stereotype, of the huge Pacific Island kid who bulldozes everyone at the schoolboy level, and when he goes pro, gets found out because everyone else had been working on their technique to work around their comparative lack of size, which results in him falling behind.


So, if I had to pick a 31-man squad out of that:

Coles, Taylor, Harris or Parsons
Crockett, Moody, Franks, Faumuina, Hohneck
Retallick, Whitelock, Romano
Thomson
Kaino, Luatua, Cane, Todd, Read (Akira Ioane, if Kaino's not fit)

Smith, TKB (if he's had enough game time), Hall or Weber
Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga
Ngatai, SBW (if he's available) or Crotty
Fekitoa, Tamanivalu or Ioane
Savea, Li
B Smith, McKenzie

Naholo, Lowe and Osbourne are ahead of Li for me. Also Ardie Savea should be in the mix if he's not playing 7s.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Why on earth would you be worrying about further than the next RWC, cas? Are you seriously suggesting that Li should be preferred to Lowe because Lowe might not quite make it to 2023?

[zer0]

Much like Tu'ungafasi, Li has thus far proved to be nothing but a flat track bully. If you want a skillful winger go for Lowe. If you want a strike winger (or want to give that fat bus driver Savea a kick in the pants) go for Osborne.

[morepork]

Savea is going all KFC again?

[dk4]

so how does this looks after the games against Wales?

My questions:
-Do we have now a replacement for Woodcock?
-Is there a 2nd hooker to compete with Coles?
-Cane or Ardie Savea?
-Where is the next Kaino?
-Any positives from 12-13?
-Why use Dagg and not try MacKenzie instead?

Our WC team had outstanding players from 1-15. Are we finding replacements or stand ins?

[Eugene Wrayburn]

so how does this looks after the games against Wales?

My questions:
-Do we have now a replacement for Woodcock?
-Is there a 2nd hooker to compete with Coles?
-Cane or Ardie Savea?
-Where is the next Kaino?
-Any positives from 12-13?
-Why use Dagg and not try MacKenzie instead?

Our WC team had outstanding players from 1-15. Are we finding replacements or stand ins?

Woodcock was well past his best by the RWC. Moody is certainly at that level.
Not to compete with Coles yet but there aren't many hookers with that level of dynamism.
Start Cane and bring in Ardie seems to be working. Ardie will probably take a year to surpass Cane's judgement.
One Kaino at a time is plenty.
Tumanivanu looks like another one with potential but no clear cut successor.
That's really the wrong way to look at it. Smith should be starting and they should have used the obvious replacement for NMS in James Lowe. If you are going to move Smith then Dagg's Maddie boot and better presence in the air is a perfectly logical choice against Wales.