Team vs Wales

[Mikey Brown]

Apparently international rugby is still going to be a thing and we have our remaining 6 nations game vs Wales on October 31st. Sounds like nonsense to me but I guess we'll see.

So I don't think there's much change in most positions, but a few key questions and gaps with injury/illness?

Obviously Fagerson would be a massive loss. Not sure what his Covid status actually is, but Berghan/Nel do the job there. Is Sutherland fit? I'd still pick him even if he hasn't usurped Schoeman, but I'm not sure why he was unavailable at the weekend. Will be very interested if Sam Skinner gets the chance to play in Exeter's European final as that could give him a massive boost. No idea what's going on at centre, who plays 12 in particular?

Johnson - injured (ETA?)
Jones - playing fullback, maybe that doesn't matter to GT
Harris - playing well for Gloucester in a Chris Harris sort of way
Hutchinson - consistently starting at 12 now so maybe the obvious choice there. Not as eye-catching in his running game as when he's a bit wider, but he's still very smart with the ball and perhaps offers a good trade off with Harris's physicality/clog-hands.
Horne - seems to have slipped down the pecking order at Glasgow?
Grigg - didn't think we'd be looking at him again for Scotland but who knows
Bennet - still feel he's totally dropped off the radar in terms of Scotland selection
Scott - perhaps the same as Bennet, does not look like he's found his groove at Leicester (perhaps unsurprising given how shit they look)
McDowall - still looks a bit passive to me whenever I've seen him. Looks a long way off the top level but I'd love to see him kick on this season.

We know GT loves Harris now for his defence and a bit of heft in the carry, so I feel like he must be in. Would he try 12. Jones 13. Harris again? And especially against Wales again? 12. Hutchinson 13. Jones could be very exciting with the ball, not so much without it. Hard to see Huw Jones being left out of the starting side though. Any Toony curveballs I haven't considered?

[Cameo]

I suspect Harris will be at 13 but would love it to be Jones or Hutchinson. No idea when Johnson is back otherwise you are right, it's a lottery at 12. Would be interesting to see Hutchison get a full game. I suppose Duncan Taylor has been playing!

[Scottish Caley Fan]

When is the squad announced for this game and the Autumn Cup, it can't be far off because England announced theirs yesterday (which Fraser Dingwall is in) and Wales are announcing theirs in a few hours?

[septic 9]

When is the squad announced for this game and the Autumn Cup, it can't be far off because England announced theirs yesterday (which Fraser Dingwall is in) and Wales are announcing theirs in a few hours?

early next week.

[switchskier]

International rugby is the pinnacle of our sport, and should always be played with the strongest possible team. But, given the way that the calendar has fallen , I can see an argument for selecting lots of players from abroad.

This would have the twin benefit of playing those who are more match fit and give the pro teams more chances of success later in the season. It might even help us in the 2021 6N if some of our squad haven't been playing flat out since summer 2019.

[General Zod]

International rugby is the pinnacle of our sport, and should always be played with the strongest possible team. But, given the way that the calendar has fallen , I can see an argument for selecting lots of players from abroad.

This would have the twin benefit of playing those who are more match fit and give the pro teams more chances of success later in the season. It might even help us in the 2021 6N if some of our squad haven't been playing flat out since summer 2019.

It would also mean not playing the ones who were shit enough to lose to Connacht and, in particular, Ospreys.

[Cameo]

What's the deal with Skinner? Sometimes he seems to be the answer to all our problems adding dynamism, power and pace to our pack. Other times he is just some guy who sits on the bench for Exeter.

Did the injury before the world cup just set him back or is it just that Exeter are so good?

Incidentally, saw that Callum Hunter-Hill played at 6 the other day.

[septic 9]

[quote="Cameo"]What's the deal with Skinner? Sometimes he seems to be the answer to all our problems adding dynamism, power and pace to our pack. Other times he is just some guy who sits on the bench for Exeter.

Did the injury before the world cup just set him back or is it just that Exeter are so good?
/quote]

Exeter didn't sign Gray to sit on a bench. And Jonny Hill is their first choice lock, has become an exceptional player these last 18 months, don't understand how England can ignore him. Best lock in England currently, bar none. With an ability to score more tries than most backs this season.
On the plus side Skinner always makes their match day squad for big games when everyone is fit and available.

Currently Exeter have been playing 2nd/3rd string squads, Skinner I think isn't in most of those, but Dave Dennis and Witty are - an experienced Aussie international and a good premiership second row (ex Newcastle). not bad 4th and 5th choices. Plus academy plus Kyrsten who was signed as a lock and was excellent last season there but now being played at 6. Amazing depth

Dennis is retiring of course after this season ends

[septic 9]

International rugby is the pinnacle of our sport, and should always be played with the strongest possible team. But, given the way that the calendar has fallen , I can see an argument for selecting lots of players from abroad.

This would have the twin benefit of playing those who are more match fit and give the pro teams more chances of success later in the season. It might even help us in the 2021 6N if some of our squad haven't been playing flat out since summer 2019.

can't be arsed looking it up again but I think we have a clash with the Eng Prem final, so would miss Hogg and Gray and Skinner if that's right. Beyond that, Scotland not picking players usually means their clubs do, so while maybe at less intensity than tests, they would still be playing.

[Croft_No.5]

Yes, premiership final is the 24th October so clashes with the Georgia game.

[switchskier]

What's the deal with Skinner? Sometimes he seems to be the answer to all our problems adding dynamism, power and pace to our pack. Other times he is just some guy who sits on the bench for Exeter.

Did the injury before the world cup just set him back or is it just that Exeter are so good?
/quote]

Exeter didn't sign Gray to sit on a bench. And Jonny Hill is their first choice lock, has become an exceptional player these last 18 months, don't understand how England can ignore him. Best lock in England currently, bar none. With an ability to score more tries than most backs this season.
On the plus side Skinner always makes their match day squad for big games when everyone is fit and available.

Currently Exeter have been playing 2nd/3rd string squads, Skinner I think isn't in most of those, but Dave Dennis and Witty are - an experienced Aussie international and a good premiership second row (ex Newcastle). not bad 4th and 5th choices. Plus academy plus Kyrsten who was signed as a lock and was excellent last season there but now being played at 6. Amazing depth

Dennis is retiring of course after this season ends

I still think his future may be in the back row but there he's got to get past the two South Africans (Vermuelen and Kirsten), plus Ewers. Hard to change a winning team and they seen to like the mix of the SA energy, with Ewers carrying. Skinner's not quite as powerful as the latter and not as high energy as the former.

[Puja]

What's the deal with Skinner? Sometimes he seems to be the answer to all our problems adding dynamism, power and pace to our pack. Other times he is just some guy who sits on the bench for Exeter.

Did the injury before the world cup just set him back or is it just that Exeter are so good?

I'd say it's mostly that he's still young and lost a lot of development time to his injury. Plus, in his absence, Exeter signed Vermeulen, Kirsten, and Gray, all of whom have settled into the team very well and leaving him a mountain to climb post-rehabilitation. He will come good - he's a decent enough player that I was a bit narked when he plumped for Scotland instead of us - and I think he'll really add something to you. It just might be a year or so down the line.

Puja

[septic 9]

What's the deal with Skinner? Sometimes he seems to be the answer to all our problems adding dynamism, power and pace to our pack. Other times he is just some guy who sits on the bench for Exeter.

Did the injury before the world cup just set him back or is it just that Exeter are so good?

I'd say it's mostly that he's still young and lost a lot of development time to his injury. Plus, in his absence, Exeter signed Vermeulen, Kirsten, and Gray, all of whom have settled into the team very well and leaving him a mountain to climb post-rehabilitation. He will come good - he's a decent enough player that I was a bit narked when he plumped for Scotland instead of us - and I think he'll really add something to you. It just might be a year or so down the line.

Puja

he'll be 26 in January. Not young. Late developer a bit, but not young.
He is a very good player, my dark horse tip for the RWC before he was capped. He just isn't better than Gray and Hill, so doesn't start big games if all fit, but a key member of their squad.

[septic 9]

I still think his future may be in the back row but there he's got to get past the two South Africans (Vermuelen and Kirsten), plus Ewers. Hard to change a winning team and they seen to like the mix of the SA energy, with Ewers carrying. Skinner's not quite as powerful as the latter and not as high energy as the former.

his age grade rugby was 6/8 for England. Converted to lock. Hence he cover both for Exeter, and Scotland.

I don't think he is a brutal enough carrier for back row 6/8, but is a very good "ball playing" lock, which is where he does add value.

For club and country I see him continuing to be valued for his versatility. If he were to try to focus on one to the detriment of the other, his value declines as too lightweight for lock and not good enough carrying/wide support for back row. At the highest levels

[Mikey Brown]

I still think his future may be in the back row but there he's got to get past the two South Africans (Vermuelen and Kirsten), plus Ewers. Hard to change a winning team and they seen to like the mix of the SA energy, with Ewers carrying. Skinner's not quite as powerful as the latter and not as high energy as the former.

his age grade rugby was 6/8 for England. Converted to lock. Hence he cover both for Exeter, and Scotland.

I don't think he is a brutal enough carrier for back row 6/8, but is a very good "ball playing" lock, which is where he does add value.

For club and country I see him continuing to be valued for his versatility. If he were to try to focus on one to the detriment of the other, his value declines as too lightweight for lock and not good enough carrying/wide support for back row. At the highest levels

That's a good way of putting it. Some players simply don't fit in to the perfect archetype of any forward role.

I was dubious when I first saw him play flanker for Scotland, as I'd only seen him at lock for Exeter, but I'm a bit more open to the idea of him in the back row now. He'll never be the quickest or most mobile backrow but he's really not bad in that respect for someone of his size and it didn't look like when we put Swinson/Hines there.

He's not going to be the wrecking-ball carrier I've wanted at 6/8 for a while now, but he's got a lot more balance to his game. I feel like Denton/Strauss etc. were all capable of their moments with ball in hand but struggled with consistency, work-rate and were often let down by their vision and ball skills. Bradbury for instance is a fantastic tight carrier but not sure he's a good enough footballer to be a top 8. Skinner is very unlikely to get any serious game time at 8 for Exeter though given their unique setup in the backrow.

[paddy no 11]

Tadgh Bernie hasnt gone very well as a value adding 2nd row* when an outstanding 8 for scarlets, might be the same for skinner

This could be down to the gash coaching at munster/Ireland....you'd think Pivac would get him going if he was welsh

[Puja]

Tadgh Bernie hasnt gone very well as a value adding 2nd row* when an outstanding 8 for scarlets, might be the same for skinner

This could be down to the gash coaching at munster/Ireland....you'd think Pivac would get him going if he was welsh

It always amazes me when people put a back row in at lock and expect that suddenly they'll have 4 back rower's worth of loose play on the field. We used to get it all the time with people saying you could put Tom Croft in there. Yes, he could play there, but he got half the work done in the loose because scrummaging in the second row is hard work and takes it out of your legs. Plus, it results in you getting up slower from the scrums and needing to be in different positions and pods when the game breaks up.

Puja

[Cameo]

Yeah, I see that point to an extent (though think it is as much assigned roles in the loose as tiredness from scrummaging. I would always lean towards a back row in the second row than a second row in the backrow (though there are a few who have converted well).

Probably works a bit less well at international level than club level though as everything tightens up a bit and effort and enthusiasm don't take you as far.

[switchskier]

Thoughts on the possible team? Same again but with Gray and Russell starting? I'd like to see Horne over Price and anyone but CDP at 8 (thought he looked slow and cumbersome against Georgia) but expecting to be disappointed. Would love be to see Skinner in the back row instead.

[Mikey Brown]

Skinner at 8 would be an interesting move given it allows Cummings/Gray to continue but even for GT I think that's too much of a curveball.

I wouldn't mind seeing it, none of Haining, CDP, Thomson, Cowan are massively calling out for the spot but I assume they're all ahead in the pecking order.

I assume we'll see this:

1. Sutherland
2. Brown
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Gray
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Haining

9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Graham
15. Hogg

16. McInally 17. Kebble 18. Berghan 19/20. Toolis/Skinner/CDP/Thomson 21. Horne 22. Hastings 23. Jones/Kinghorn

I'd like to see starting spots for Skinner and Jones if it were my call. I like Horne, I'm not totally convinced we're seeing much more than the usual impact any reserve scrum-half can make when brought on at 60 minutes. We have to find out at some point, but I'd like to see Price given a chance to see if he can reignite something alongside Russell.

[General Zod]

Skinner at 8 would be an interesting move given it allows Cummings/Gray to continue but even for GT I think that's too much of a curveball.

I wouldn't mind seeing it, none of Haining, CDP, Thomson, Cowan are massively calling out for the spot but I assume they're all ahead in the pecking order.

I assume we'll see this:

1. Sutherland
2. Brown
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Gray
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Haining

9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Graham
15. Hogg

16. McInally 17. Kebble 18. Berghan 19/20. Toolis/Skinner/CDP/Thomson 21. Horne 22. Hastings 23. Jones/Kinghorn

I'd like to see starting spots for Skinner and Jones if it were my call. I like Horne, I'm not totally convinced we're seeing much more than the usual impact any reserve scrum-half can make when brought on at 60 minutes. We have to find out at some point, but I'd like to see Price given a chance to see if he can reignite something alongside Russell.

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[Mikey Brown]

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Owen Watkin, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis; Will Rowlands, Alun Wyn Jones (C); Shane Lewis-Hughes, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Reps: Sam Parry, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Cory Hill, James Davies, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Patchell, Nick Tompkins.

[whatisthejava]

Thats a week wales team compared to a few years ago, ok they have some real class in the backs Williams, Davies, Adams and some class in the forwards in Tuperic and Faleteau but im struggling to think of a wales team in the last 10 years (not 2007) that wouldnt have eaten that team alive

[whatisthejava]

Thats a week wales team compared to a few years ago, ok they have some real class in the backs Williams, Davies, Adams and some class in the forwards in Tuperic and Faleteau but im struggling to think of a wales team in the last 10 years (not 2007) that wouldnt have eaten that team alive

And before GregSmash, ive got wales to win by 10

There defence may be shite, but they can still string a few passes together and expect a Price / Davies pass for the 5th team in a row

[switchskier]

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Owen Watkin, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis; Will Rowlands, Alun Wyn Jones (C); Shane Lewis-Hughes, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Reps: Sam Parry, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Cory Hill, James Davies, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Patchell, Nick Tompkins.

On the face of it it's not a dissimilar team to the one that has continually beat us for the past decade. Of the backline only Watkin isn't either very experienced or nailed on first choice, and he should improve their midfield defence over an out of position Tompkins. Rowlands should also give the pack a bit more heft so we're not going to bully them.

I don't think that I've seen their blindside play before. Anyone? Am surprised Wainwright was dropped completely.

Front row may be the only area where we might get an edge. But I don't see us going for 80 minutes of scrums and that'd be far too much of a lottery anyways.