Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

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Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Puja »

So, this is going to be a unique minute-by-minute for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I didn't really get to watch the game live - I was coming back from playing a match. We got absolutely clumped - a bunch of 2nd XV players decided they didn't fancy a long away journey to top of the league and so we ended up with half the 3rd XV having to step up and travel in their stead (because, if we didn't, then the third team game would get cancelled and we're at risk of being booted from the league if that happens) as a bare 15, no substitutes. As such, we got horsed 81-10, and the game was stopped after 60 minutes because I'd gone down injured 5 times in the second half and the ref literally took pity on us and negotiated a "finish after the next try" with both coaches. However, the advantage of a long away trip was the coach journey back, in which the 3rds players got free cider as a thanks for turning up. So, I'm aware of the result, I saw some reasonable chunks on my phone, but I'm not confident I can say that I watched it. A lot of this is going to be untainted by a first reaction, which is fun.

The second thing is that I forgot to set my Sky box to record the game, so I'm instead trying to do this on iPlayer, which is a complete load of shit for rewinding and fastforwarding. Apologies if this affects the quality of the recap - it'll either make it go much slower as I swear at having to watch the same 10 seconds over and over when I just want to see who the player was in the last 2 seconds, or it'll make it go much quicker as I realise no-one cares who that player was and just move on.

Anyway, let's all reset our KADABs to zero and jump straight in.

Minute 1: A long kick-off lands on the head of Dombrandt and he carries up in a... fine manner, towards the edge of the 22. I may not have biases from watching the game live, but I did read what you all wrote and there seemed to be an opinion that Dombrandt had a decent game, so I'm looking out for that. However, I did watch France vs Scotland earlier and comparing the venom with which Aldritt and Ollivon ran back balls that they caught, with this, is not flattering to Dombrandt. He gets tackled solidly and driven back a bit, so it's very slow ball, but we're not planning on doing much with it anyway. Up she goes and out for a lineout just inside the Welsh half. Great kick from JVP.

Wales have a bit of movement from the lineout and AWJ takes uncontested at the front. Dummy maul and out to the back - it's a set piece move that threatens like it's bringing Grady back on a hard line and instead passes off to Adams. Looks pretty, but Faletau hasn't read it and gets in the way, and Itoje and Sinckler have read it, and get in the way. Wales reset and run a forward pod off 9 to recycle.

Minute 2: Ball passed back to Bigg... sorry, force of habit - to Owen Williams, who pumps it high and long, only for Steward to take a fairly regulation catch. LRZ (there's a lot of Three Letter Acronyms on the pitch today) chases well, but Slade unashamedly blocks him and Steward can make a few metres in traffic. It's quick ball and George carries well - looks like we're going to play today, but all that changes when the fire nation attacked Farrell calls for the ball and drops deep off the next phase. Looks like he's going to kick long, but instead, he kicks directly into Faletau's chargedown and we're scrambling back to cover.

Thankfully Steward is paying attention and is fast enough to get to the ball before any Welshmen, before rounding the first chaser and then stepping back inside another and then charging 15m up the pitch and driving through two tacklers in order to set up clean ball from the ruck. Speaking of impressions I got from the board, I'd picked up the impression that this was another poor game from Steward and he does nothing else but catch high balls. Good start, even if him dodging tackles did get his shorts literally pulled down in front of 80,000.

JVP decides he doesn't trust Captain Chaos anymore - understandable - and sends the forwards round the corner once so he can set up for another belting box-kick to take us back over halfway again. He's had a good first two minutes. I did check the Farrell chargedown to see if htere was mitigation from the pass but, no, it was a lovely quick and accurate service - Faletau was just very quick and Farrell was just very slow.

Minute 3: The BBC unmercifully show a slow-motion replay of Freddie Steward trying and failing to pull his shorts up mid-run and deciding he's better off just concentrating on running with a bare arse. Nice.

Wales get uncontested ball from the lineout and make a simple passing move into midfield - Rees-Zammit is coming round on the outside and we do have it covered except that Slade gets rounded and brushed off. Malins is alive and brings him down though. That was a simple move, but that's the kind of thing we should have in our locker when Arundell's on the pitch - we've got a bit of stardust, let's get him the ball and a one-on-one and see if he can make someone look stupid.

Wales look to go back the other way, but Itoje is a nusiance, first reading a play to tackle man-and-ball, then disrupting the pass, then hacking through and tackling the Welshman who picks it up. Ref calls us back for the knock-on though.

Minute 4: We don't get the scrum though as there's faffing about and then Raynal gives England a free-kick for an early engage.

Minute 5: Farrell puts up the SPIRAL BOMB, but it's far too long, landing a good 10m ahead of the fastest English chaser. However, Wales manage to fail to get anyone underneath it for the easy mark, and instead Williams and Faletau both leave it to the other one. It does bounce kindly for Halfpenny though, who evades Malins and kicks long to Farrell (probably Wales's second best attacking plan behind "Give it to LRZ").

Fazlet surprises me by passing inside to Steward, who probably should've passed on to Watson out wide, but makes acceptable metres and sets the ball. It's quick ball and JVP gets it out to Watson who, when faced with an overlap does this really weird thing where he... doesn't kick it along the ground? It's bizarre and unconventional, but it works better than you'd think - pass to Dombrandt and lovely quick hands sets Lawrence away down the left with Slade outside him. The cover defence gets over to them (and I would like to take a moment to note to Ollie Lawrence that the gods gave him two hands for the express purpose of using both of them to carry and pass the ball, no I don't care how cool you look or that you *can* pass one handed, I still remember the end of your break against Italy, use both hands on the ball), but we are up to the 22 and with quick, attacking ball.

Farrell's about to kick it, isn't he?

Nope, I'm disappointed in another way - Genge runs hard, but high, into LRZ and the wing does an excellent job of stripping the ball. I cannot wait until the Lions tour when I can legitimately cheer for him as he's such a good player. Wales kick poorly though and Steward carries it back, again functionally rather than any great threat. It's good ball though and we make a couple of good forward carries into traffic without really achieving much.



ETA: As requested, a reminder of the KADAB rules:
Puja wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:59 pmI have come to the conclusion that I am going to keep up the tally of Kicking Away Decent Attacking Ball, but I'm going to define exactly what I mean by it, so it's a lot less subjective than last week's effort. I would say KADAB requires four things: a) Our possession is either within 40m of the opposition line or within 60m where it's fast-paced and we're moving forwards against a disrupted defence, b) The player has another option - doesn't have to be prime try-scoring ball, but has to be secure enough that we could restart an attack if we chose not to kick, c) the kick must result in the opposition having safe possession where they've got the ability to clear in relative comfort, d) there was not a good chance (ie without a freak bounce of an opposition mistake) of a try being scored from the kick (higher than 50:50).
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Puja »

Minute 6: We attack wide and a Slade miss-pass gives Malins a little bit of room to dance in - he beats a man and takes us into the 22. We then make a virtue out of Sinckler nearly overrunning a pass by some nice quick hands from him and George to free up Willis to crash forward.

Farrell has definitely been told not to kick it this week. That's about the fourth touch he's had of good ball and he looks like he's thinking of a grubber before passing it along the line. We look good until Itoje misreads what George is doing - he's waiting for the pop when he's needed in the ruck and, by the time he realises, Faletau has turned the ball over. Wales reset and kick for tou... nope, it's straight down the pitch. I understand they have a tactic of denying us lineouts, but I suspect their defence needs to breathe at this point and would probably have welcomed a set-piece. Malins carries it up - beats one man, but possibly misses an opportunity to pass to the blind, instead seeking contact and the quick ruck.

Minute 7: JVP then passes to the blind where I saw the gap a second ago, and Ludlam charges through it. It's quick ball, but Itoje is standing at 10 and, while he carries decently, it's slowed things down - that needed to be Slade or Farrell there to get the ball wide early. It is quick ball again though, and I regret my wish for Farrell as he chooses the forward runner into the defender, instead of the wide ball behind to Slade, who had a 3-on-1 if that ball went. Still, it's very quick ball again (marks for Dombrandt's carry there), but now I regret my wish for Slade, as he chooses the wide ball behind instead of the forward runner, as Chessum was through if the pass went to him. Lawrence then makes it worse by losing the ball in the tackle because he's too cool to use two hands (it's actually a really good tackle, but I'm still annoyed about his ball security, so he gets no leeway here).

Minute 8: Eight minutes in without a KADAB. I'm scared and confused, although I remember from my coach ride that there was at least a couple in the second half.

Wales play off the scrum and send Hawkins on the charge - he makes it through JVP's tackle and gets a good 20m before being stopped. Wales go wide with quick ball, but England's defensive line is very good, especially considering they just had to retreat 20m, and Grady is forced to kick. It's not great and is cleaned up by Steward. We could look for a counter, but instead JVP slows it down, resets through a forward carry, and then puts up the box-kick.

Minute 9: It's another great kick from JVP - high and hanging, allowing Dombrandt to get underneath it despite a wall of Welsh blockers. It's not quick ball, but Chessum carries off the ersatz 9, bouncing the first tackler and making a bit of ground. Sinckler pushes in front of JVP to pass the ball out - he's done worse this 6N and it is a good pass, but Genge is on his own and does well to make enough ground so that supporters can get to him. Wales drag him down, but get pinned on the wrong side and it's an England penalty.

Replay of that Chessum carry and the Welsh loosehead who tries to make the tackle gets a massive bang on the head and then lies still for a few seconds. He should be going off for an HIA, because he's had a head injury that needs assessment, but the Welsh physio has a magical skill which allows him to bypass the entire process that is THE ONLY WAY TO DIAGNOSE A CONCUSSION MIDMATCH and proclaim that he's fine. Presumably the independent doctors who are watching the footage of him getting kneed in the forehead have decided that that's the new protocol - as long as he **seems** fine, that's okay, right?

After all, it's not like he'll remember it in 10 years time, so what's the harm in being negligent?

Minute 10: I remember enough of the game to know that this is a collector's item - Farrell slots the kick for goal. 0-3 to the good guys and I'm off to bed while still fuming about that "on-pitch head injury assessment".
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mr Mwenda »

Thanks as ever, puja. I'll send something to hammy if I can from Sweden.

I am intrigued by the number of us who seemed to find themselves unable to watch this one properly at the time. Perhaps revealing...
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by 16th man »

If you're having to do this on IPlayer I will strongly recommend having a good think about how much you feel you need to do the 2nd half.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by FKAS »

The Welsh idea of keeping the ball in play as England have looked tired later in games was interesting but Freddie Steward did make it look ridiculous by being so solid at the back. He kicked, ran and chased well, there's a couple of decent hits from him to look forward to. It's the sort of performance we'd have been begging for a couple of years ago and now seemingly take for granted.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Tom Moore »

Re the Iplayer thing, can you download the BBC1 coverage from catchup?
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by fivepointer »

Its probably my interest waning and my memory fading but there were patches during the game when absolutely nothing of note seemed to happen. Hopefully Puja will reveal some hidden nuggets.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mikey Brown »

fivepointer wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:43 am Its probably my interest waning and my memory fading but there were patches during the game when absolutely nothing of note seemed to happen. Hopefully Puja will reveal some hidden nuggets.
This seems to be a frequent occurrence where I’ll suddenly feel like the clock has skipped forwards 20 minutes because we’ve had a scrum or an injury or a water break or a caterpillar ruck, or all of them together. I remember the opening of this game being fairly entertaining but then a lot of that stuff follows.

I was losing my fucking mind in the Scotland game yesterday when France were able to wind down 4 minutes of the remaining 10 just standing around at a scrum. Weren’t world rugby making a big fuss about cracking down on all this shit?

The games often pop up on YouTube pretty soon after don’t they? Would certainly be easier to navigate than iplayer.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Banquo »

Tom Moore wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:56 am Re the Iplayer thing, can you download the BBC1 coverage from catchup?
Definitely worth checking the 'available now' function on Sky, but suspect it would default to iplayer.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Puja »

Mikey Brown wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:08 amThe games often pop up on YouTube pretty soon after don’t they? Would certainly be easier to navigate than iplayer.
The problem is the rewind and fastforward - the Sky box lets you do it like an old fashioned video tape, where it takes you back through the footage and you can press play as and when you want to. iPlayer/ITV hub/Amazon/Youtube/et al all think that people only want to skip back and forward in 10 second or 5 second jumps, which isn't especially useful for the way I do things.

The answer might be to change the way I do things, but it's still annoying.
Banquo wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:12 am
Tom Moore wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:56 am Re the Iplayer thing, can you download the BBC1 coverage from catchup?
Definitely worth checking the 'available now' function on Sky, but suspect it would default to iplayer.
Unfortunately, Banquo's right - there's no way of getting it onto the box. Sad times. Still, never mind.

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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mikey Brown »

Fair enough. I only ever use it to skip forward through scrums, a quick 20 taps on the forward key and they've just about finished adjusting the elastic on eachother's shorts.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Tom Moore »

Puja wrote:
Banquo wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:12 am
Tom Moore wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:56 am Re the Iplayer thing, can you download the BBC1 coverage from catchup?
Definitely worth checking the 'available now' function on Sky, but suspect it would default to iplayer.
Unfortunately, Banquo's right - there's no way of getting it onto the box. Sad times. Still, never mind.

Puja
I've just tried it on my Sky Q box. Went into catchup, then BBC, then Channel, then day, and it let me download it, and watch it via the box rather than Iplayer.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by 16th man »

Tom Moore wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:29 pm
Puja wrote:
Banquo wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:12 am

Definitely worth checking the 'available now' function on Sky, but suspect it would default to iplayer.
Unfortunately, Banquo's right - there's no way of getting it onto the box. Sad times. Still, never mind.

Puja
I've just tried it on my Sky Q box. Went into catchup, then BBC, then Channel, then day, and it let me download it, and watch it via the box rather than Iplayer.
Sadly this discussion is probably more interesting and informative than a watch through of the vast swathes of the second half will be.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mellsblue »

Tom Moore wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:29 pm
Puja wrote:
Banquo wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:12 am

Definitely worth checking the 'available now' function on Sky, but suspect it would default to iplayer.
Unfortunately, Banquo's right - there's no way of getting it onto the box. Sad times. Still, never mind.

Puja
I've just tried it on my Sky Q box. Went into catchup, then BBC, then Channel, then day, and it let me download it, and watch it via the box rather than Iplayer.
We’ll need a minute by minute breakdown of how you did it.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Puja »

Tom Moore wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:29 pm
Puja wrote: Unfortunately, Banquo's right - there's no way of getting it onto the box. Sad times. Still, never mind.

Puja
I've just tried it on my Sky Q box. Went into catchup, then BBC, then Channel, then day, and it let me download it, and watch it via the box rather than Iplayer.
You are officially my new favourite. Thank you.

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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Puja »

Minute 11: Wales switch sides from the kick-off and kick long, but England have read it and it's still Dombrandt under it. He is once again solid without every looking particularly dangerous, to set up a ruck just inside the 22. JVP takes a lot of time before putting up his first iffy box-kick - this one is on the wrong side for him to curve it into touch as he'd done his other kicks (probably why Wales switched it up - good play from them) and it lands on Halfpenny rather than touch. Our chase is decent though and we present a wall that Halfpenny can't get past. Wales secure the ball just inside their own half.

Minute 12: Wales move to the middle with a forward carry, before passing back to Owen Williams for a poor kick that's half-charged down by George. The ball bobbles into England's half and JVP learns that the bounce of an international rugby ball always hates you, as it changes direction and nutmegs him. He doesn't knock it on though and Steward is round to sweep up and kick it away long to the Welsh 22.

We then enter a to-and-fro of kicking between the back threes, interrupted only when Steward thinks there might be space and passes inside to Farrell, narrowly missing Malins on the burst who nearly intercepts the pass. Shame really - Malins was coming at pace and it would've been a good counter if Steward had heard his call.

Farrell decides not to feed Watson, but instead to aim for the 50:22 - it's a decent kick, but Wales defend it well and we go back for further back and forth kicking that I won't dignify with a description. It finishes when Steward is sufficiently blocked off from chasing a Farrell high ball that he can't compete, but instead waits for Halfpenny to come down before mullering him. Wales retain the ball though.

Minute 13: Wales run through 2 incredibly dull forward pods back and forth and Raynal shows absolutely no appetite to speed anyone up at the base. Half a minute is wasted. Eventually, Wales box-kick and it's a good length - too short for Steward to come, but long enough that the entire England team are standing there waiting for him and looking like utter mugs when Rees-Zammit just takes the ball from the middle of them. Poor play by Watson there, whose ball that definitely was.

Wales spread wide and it's some pretty ropey passing which lures England into a very raggedy defensive line as they fly up. They get the ball free and have an overlap. Grady attacks the space on Chessum's outside shoulder - Chessum probably just about has him covered, but Slade doesn't trust and steps inside to deal with it himself, despite us being short on the outside. The decision gets worse as he's beaten by a fairly regulation sidestep and we're lucky Grady's pass makes Adams stop and reach for it, otherwise that was probably a break. Instead, Adams is forced to kick on and he's overcooked it - Steward touches down for the goal-line drop-out.

Minute 14: Farrell kicks the drop-out long up to halfway and Faletau gets a long run up at the England defence. Ludlam does a terrific job - meets him with a textbook tackle that stops him and drops him at Willis's feet. Willis does the usual and it's an England penalty. Willis gets the plaudits from the commentators, but that was fantastic defence by Ludlam and generally great work from both of them.

Minute 15: Farrell kicks and we've got a lineout about 38m out. Raynal is being fussy about the Welsh alignment and so there's a delay to get going. Eventually we play and Itoje takes good ball in the middle and taps down to JVP. We go to Farrell in the middle and it looks like a regulation Dombrandt up the middle, but he waits until Tipuric commits before popping it to Lawrence who is running at pace off his shoulder. Great hands from Dombrandt.

Wales do a fantastic job to react and bring Lawrence down after only 5m, but the speed with which he punctured the Welsh line means instant ball and for once our backs choose a succession of right options - Steward's short dummy line draws Grady, so Farrell passes behind to Malins, who sees LRZ charging up and gets the ball quickly in and out to Slade, who sees Halfpenny charging up and gets the ball quickly in and out to Watson. Watson takes on Grady on the outside, who does very well to haul him down. Watson flings the ball back before he goes into touch and JVP does well to rescue it and pass to Steward. He looks like he's going to run, but passes to George, who looks like he's going to run, but passes to Genge, who *does* run and Wales have run out of defenders after flying up on both Steward and George. He charges into the 22 and we're on the verge of breaking them entirely, but unfrotunately there's some disruption at the back of the ruck (I suspect Welsh skulduggery, but it's impossible to tell and could just be Slade being clumsy with his feet as a rucker) and the ball doesn't come for JVP as Lawrence and Sinckler run beautiful lines timed to what could have been. Sinckler makes it worse by clattering into a Welsh tackler so that, when the ball does get passed out, the ref gives a penalty for taking a man out for the hole that Chessum then runs through.

Disappointing ending, but that was some lovely attack. If we do this all game, we'll put 40 points on them.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

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Minute 16: Wales kick to touch and we get a replay of the penalty, which makes it very clear that it was Sinckler's fault - he didn't need to make that contact, he just felt like intimidating Tipuric with a shot off the ball. Very poor.

No-one's in a hurry to get anything done this minute and the lineout is set up slowly. Eventually, Wales throw in, and England actually compete for once, but it's moot as Wales have overthrown. The ball doesn't bounce kindly for England, but Dombrandt still makes a colossal balls-up of trying to pick it up - attempts to take it one handed without bending down and instead blunders it forward and into Welsh hands.

Minute 17: Wales get the ball back, but England's defence are rushing up. Instead of taking the scrum, they kick it aimlessly away to Steward, who puts in a beautiful return kick that he's unlucky that TWilliams has read - would've been a phenomenal 50:22. It's kicked back to England and Watson has lots of room in which to attack. He decides against however, and puts up a high ball of his own, resulting in Halfpenny once again getting clattered the second he catches a ball.

Wales do well to retain possession and play to the blind. England have badly cocked up their defensive alignment here - Wales have a full 25m width of blindside, 4 attackers, and England only have Itoje and Malins covering. However, the ball is passed to Tshiunza, who picks running himself, over drawing and giving, and Malins does an excellent job of backing off to cover the extra men and then bringing down Tshiunza once he committed, even forcing a knock-on. Great individual defence, but we were lucky not to give away more there.

Minute 18: The scrum is solid enough and Raynal says to play away, so England do. It's a good training ground move - JVP picks and goes to draw the 9 and Slade is running a fantastic against-the-grain line and looks for all money to be the option. This means that OWilliams steps inside to cover and the Welsh back row are concentrating on that tight channel. The ball is then passed behind to Farrell, who shapes to go wide - Lawrence is running the crash ball on his outside shoulder and both Welsh centres are now focussed on the two of them. All it takes is for Farrell to go to the line and feint outwards - the Welsh inside defence followed Slade, the outside defence followed Farrell and Lawrence, and there's a whacking great hole for Malins to run through off Farrell's inside shoulder.

Malins walka through the hole, but doesn't take on the full-back himself, instead feeding Lawrence, who is hauled down by the Welsh scramble. However, it's quick ball and Wales's defence is in disarray - good handling from Farrell and Dombrandt has a three on two...

Minute 19: ...which he executes perfectly. Draws his man and then wide mispass to Watson, who beats Halfpenny into the corner. Very good try, off set piece ball. More of those please.

Minute 20: Farrell goes for the conversion and it's not a bad effort from a very wide kick, but it's back off the post and it's 0-8 to the good guys.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by loudnconfident »

Hi
Many thanks for these posts! Appreciated!

I thought that the line:

"Anyway, let's all reset our KADABs to zero and jump straight in."

Deserved specific applause 😀
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Oakboy »

As regards missing kicks at goal, might getting rid of Farrell be another crowd decision like the removal of the horrible Australian? Booing/jeering his misses after groans of disapproval when he sets the tee (all as happened to CH ) are not that far from happening perhaps.
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mikey Brown »

Somehow I'm surprised at what a fuss is being made of Farrell's kicking. Would the exact same performance with 10 more points from the boot have made it a satisfying day? I feel like until he is routinely missing vital kicks in big games (I know these were, technically, but they weren't game defining by the end) that actually cost us victories - I can't see anybody taking calls to drop him seriously at all.

I remember that Autumn Nations game where we were losing to France B because Farrell was shocking in every aspect, including missing key kicks that allowed the game to go to extra time. Eventually we scored because the ref didn't notice Billy knock the ball on and Farrell kicked the winner - "the one that really mattered".

I remember Grayson on comms for that game being asked at what point we might let Ford take over and saying "never, assuming England actually want to win" as if Ford missing the same kicks would somehow be worse, with 0% chance he'd make them if Farrell couldn't. I don't know why that irritated me so much, but it seems like a perfect snapshot of the weird "aura" effect.

What was this thread about again?
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Oakboy »

Mikey Brown wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:01 am
What was this thread about again?
Basically, anything that Puja mentions. Blame him for referring to a Farrell miss!!! :D
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mellsblue »

Mikey Brown wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:01 am Somehow I'm surprised at what a fuss is being made of Farrell's kicking. Would the exact same performance with 10 more points from the boot have made it a satisfying day? I feel like until he is routinely missing vital kicks in big games (I know these were, technically, but they weren't game defining by the end) that actually cost us victories - I can't see anybody taking calls to drop him seriously at all.

I remember that Autumn Nations game where we were losing to France B because Farrell was shocking in every aspect, including missing key kicks that allowed the game to go to extra time. Eventually we scored because the ref didn't notice Billy knock the ball on and Farrell kicked the winner - "the one that really mattered".

I remember Grayson on comms for that game being asked at what point we might let Ford take over and saying "never, assuming England actually want to win" as if Ford missing the same kicks would somehow be worse, with 0% chance he'd make them if Farrell couldn't. I don't know why that irritated me so much, but it seems like a perfect snapshot of the weird "aura" effect.

What was this thread about again?
The Ruck podcast this week was exactly this: his kicking isn’t good enough but if I need to someone to nail a clutch kick…
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Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mellsblue »

Puja wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:47 pm but Slade doesn't trust and steps inside to deal with it himself, despite us being short on the outside. The decision gets worse as he's beaten by a fairly regulation sidestep and we're lucky Grady's pass makes Adams stop and reach for it, otherwise that was probably a break.
This, or similar, has happened far too often over the years.
Banquo
Posts: 19605
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:52 pm

Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Banquo »

Mellsblue wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:45 am
Puja wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:47 pm but Slade doesn't trust and steps inside to deal with it himself, despite us being short on the outside. The decision gets worse as he's beaten by a fairly regulation sidestep and we're lucky Grady's pass makes Adams stop and reach for it, otherwise that was probably a break.
This, or similar, has happened far too often over the years.
Our midfield defence has been pretty poor since JJ fell out of favour/injured, esp wider. We look very vulnerable when the ball moves wide quickly. Our scramble defence usually is pretty good, fortunately- its one area where Faz is pretty strong in fairness.
Mikey Brown
Posts: 11599
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: Wales vs England - minute-by-minute

Post by Mikey Brown »

Mellsblue wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:10 am
Mikey Brown wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:01 am Somehow I'm surprised at what a fuss is being made of Farrell's kicking. Would the exact same performance with 10 more points from the boot have made it a satisfying day? I feel like until he is routinely missing vital kicks in big games (I know these were, technically, but they weren't game defining by the end) that actually cost us victories - I can't see anybody taking calls to drop him seriously at all.

I remember that Autumn Nations game where we were losing to France B because Farrell was shocking in every aspect, including missing key kicks that allowed the game to go to extra time. Eventually we scored because the ref didn't notice Billy knock the ball on and Farrell kicked the winner - "the one that really mattered".

I remember Grayson on comms for that game being asked at what point we might let Ford take over and saying "never, assuming England actually want to win" as if Ford missing the same kicks would somehow be worse, with 0% chance he'd make them if Farrell couldn't. I don't know why that irritated me so much, but it seems like a perfect snapshot of the weird "aura" effect.

What was this thread about again?
The Ruck podcast this week was exactly this: his kicking isn’t good enough but if I need to someone to nail a clutch kick…
Sorry Puja, if you feel you need to create a separate sticky for bitching about Farrell then go ahead, but I stumbled on to this and it ties in so perfectly with this conversation.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... oblematic/
Charles Richardson

If Owen Farrell was not worth his place in this England side then the answer to whether his captaincy was problematic would be a resounding yes. However, the England captain has proved time and again that he is one of the fiercest and foremost competitors in world rugby. Is his form in question? No. He, like others around him, are still settling into Steve Borthwick's modus operandi. There were moments of excellence interspersed with moments of mediocrity against Wales, but Farrell is not alone in that regard.

His goal-kicking has not been at its metronomic best of late, it is true, but that is one of the simpler areas of a fly-half's game which can be corrected. It is a case of robotic, rote learning. Practising again and again until there is no chance of missing. Farrell will be more aware of his goal-kicking shakiness than anyone and, as one of English rugby's most assiduous players, he will be working round the clock to correct those flaws.

Farrell has played a leading role in all of English rugby's finest days over the past 11 years - his form has not regressed enough to suggest that is on the verge of changing.
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