Italy v England, Saturday 3 Feb 2024, 2.15pm (ITV)

[Danno]

What, no match thread? What is this, the SMB?





Props to twitchy for the easy to steal imgur links

6 debutants is ... certainly something different. If CCS and F Smith get Jack Walkered I will not be terribly impressed, mind.

[fivepointer]

Good to see Mitchell made it. Delighted for Dingwall.

Yep, lets hope the debutants get more than a token 5 minute run out.

[Oakboy]

Reports suggest that SB was planning to start Marcus Smith at 10 before injury ruled him out. I wonder whether Fin Smith would have still been on the bench had that happened. What I am getting at is whether Ford is a stop-gap. It will be fascinating to see if he finds form in an international shirt to stir the pot for whenever Marcus is fit again.

[Stom]

What, no match thread? What is this, the SMB?





Props to twitchy for the easy to steal imgur links

6 debutants is ... certainly something different. If CCS and F Smith get Jack Walkered I will not be terribly impressed, mind.

Who’s the 6th? I only counted 5

[FKAS]

What, no match thread? What is this, the SMB?





Props to twitchy for the easy to steal imgur links

6 debutants is ... certainly something different. If CCS and F Smith get Jack Walkered I will not be terribly impressed, mind.

Who’s the 6th? I only counted 5

I get five as well: Dingwall, Roots, CCS, Smith, IFW

[Oakboy]

Has Coles been capped? I assumed he had but I can't remember it.

[p/d]

15. Freddie Steward (31 caps)
14. Tommy Freeman ( 3 caps)
13. Henry Slade (57 caps)
12. Fraser Dingwall (uncapped)
11. Elliot Daly (64 caps)
10. George Ford (91 caps)
9. Alex Mitchell ( 11 caps)
1. Joe Marler ( 88 caps)
2. Jamie George (85 caps)
3. Will Stuart (33 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (76 caps)
5. Ollie Chessum (18 caps)
6. Ethan Roots (uncapped)
7. Sam Underhill (30 caps)
8. Ben Earl (25 caps)
Replacements
16. Theo Dan (7 caps)
17. Ellis Genge (58 caps)
18. Dan Cole ( 876 caps)
19. Alex Coles (3 caps)
20. Chandler CS (uncapped)
21. Danny Care (96 caps)
22. Fin Smith (uncapped)
23. Welsh Lad (uncapped)

[FKAS]

Has Coles been capped? I assumed he had but I can't remember it.

2022 Autumn Internationals played lock and blindside. Can't remember why he didn't get another go bar the emergence of Chessum.

[Banquo]

Has Coles been capped? I assumed he had but I can't remember it.

yes under eddie, one good game, one er not so much

[Banquo]

Has Coles been capped? I assumed he had but I can't remember it.

2022 Autumn Internationals played lock and blindside. Can't remember why he didn't get another go bar the emergence of Chessum.

he had a mare v sa, got injured shortly after, lost confidence, and has had to fight his way back into Saints match day squad- only back regularlythis season since those ais

[Beasties]

I mean, there’s quite a bit to like in that. And some er hmmm. But broadly not resigned to four more years of dirge. Slightly interested in what’s going on. Which is an improvement of sorts.

[Danno]

Oh, my bad, thought Coles was on debut as well.

Though he might as well be, given how long it's been. Yeah, that's my defence.

[Danno]

18. Dan Cole ( 876 caps)

Is that all?

[FKAS]

Has Coles been capped? I assumed he had but I can't remember it.

2022 Autumn Internationals played lock and blindside. Can't remember why he didn't get another go bar the emergence of Chessum.

he had a mare v sa, got injured shortly after, lost confidence, and has had to fight his way back into Saints match day squad- only back regularlythis season since those ais

*like*

[Oakboy]

In the DT this morning it is reported that Fin Smith WAS lined up for bench duty had Marcus been fit to start. With Ford's fitness a bit suspect as well, might NOT starting Fin against Italy be a mistake? It risks him having to make his first start against Ireland or France should both other FHs be unavailable.

As a principle, I do not like a player being declared 2nd choice only to then be relegated to 3rd choice without having had a chance to play.

If Ford was 'rested' originally how can he be fit (or in form) to start? He should be on the bench at best, IMO.

[FKAS]

Seems Slippy Banana thinks Fin is it the quality required but needs easing into international rugby. But if a shame but the safety first approach might stop the Matt Tait or Ant Allen style starts to international rugby that then set them back.

[TheDasher]

In the DT this morning it is reported that Fin Smith WAS lined up for bench duty had Marcus been fit to start. With Ford's fitness a bit suspect as well, might NOT starting Fin against Italy be a mistake? It risks him having to make his first start against Ireland or France should both other FHs be unavailable.

As a principle, I do not like a player being declared 2nd choice only to then be relegated to 3rd choice without having had a chance to play.

If Ford was 'rested' originally how can he be fit (or in form) to start? He should be on the bench at best, IMO.

In years gone by I would've raged about Fin Smith not starting with Marcus being out but to be fair to SB, our careers don't depend on it as his does - Ford is obviously a highly, highly capable player who let's face it, can be incredible on his day, is highly experienced and to be honest, is extremely likely to steer the England ship to victory on Saturday. F Smith will get gametime and be eased into it all and the majority of people are happy, no risks really taken etc. I get it.

[Puja]

Agreed. If it was Farrell starting, I'd be fuming (but I probably wouldn't have had any hopes up at all in the first place cause of his immunity to not being picked), but Ford is a top player and I can see the argument for experience and a cool head with a few new players. Not the end of the world.

Puja

[FKAS]

Agreed. If it was Farrell starting, I'd be fuming (but I probably wouldn't have had any hopes up at all in the first place cause of his immunity to not being picked), but Ford is a top player and I can see the argument for experience and a cool head with a few new players. Not the end of the world.

Puja

Mitchell with 12 caps and Dingwall with 0 caps. Sort of makes sense to slot George Ford in there even if it would have been fun to see if young Fin could step up seamlessly or not.

[TheDasher]

Agreed. If it was Farrell starting, I'd be fuming (but I probably wouldn't have had any hopes up at all in the first place cause of his immunity to not being picked), but Ford is a top player and I can see the argument for experience and a cool head with a few new players. Not the end of the world.

Puja

Agreed. And to be fair to SB, you can say the same in a few other spots too. As I said on another thread, we all want to see various young props coming through, but he's probably picked (arguably) the best/safest four available, certainly two of the best scrummagers going and then Genge and Stuart who are arguably logical, relatively safe picks (Stuart needs to get a move on mind).

Same at lock, same at 7 and 8, 9, 13, 14, 11 and 15 - despite all the excitement here around all the talent coming through, most of his picks are more than just understandable, they're PROBABLY right on balance.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, as much as Italy with your club 9/12 seems perfect for Smith, if one of them has a wobble you don't want another debutant in that 10/12 channel being the one to have to sort it out.

I'm fascinated to see if Underhill can carry that fire over from the RWC runner up game. Canonne and Negri running at tiny wee George and tiny wee Fraser will be a good test for him. Earl at 8 might then become very useful too.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Underhill hasn’t played since the start of December has he? I just hope he isn’t rusty and too un-match fit.

And it will be very interesting if it is close in the second half of Staggeringly Boring gets Fin on or not.

[fivepointer]

Underhill has hardly played all season. I know players dont need as much match fitness as they once used to but his lack of action is the reason i didnt think he would get selected.

[p/d]

Underhill has hardly played all season. I know players dont need as much match fitness as they once used to but his lack of action is the reason i didnt think he would get selected.

The Underhill after a long lay off is usually motm. Like a sprung coil! Love it

[francoisfou]

A shame, but Ange Capuozzo has withdrawn from the side due to a stomach bug (a dodgy pizza con fungi?) and is replaced by Lorenzo Pani (Zebre 5 caps)