England training camp

[Epaminondas Pules]

ENGLAND SQUAD FOR TRAINING CAMP

FORWARDS
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)
Theo Dan (Saracens)
Trevor Davison (Northampton Saints)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints)
Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)
Tom Willis (Saracens)

BACKS
Oscar Beard (Harlequins)
Elliot Daly (Saracens)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)

[Mikey Brown]

Someone do the thing.

[Oakboy]

I'm pleased to see Lozowski back in the mix. Every time I watch him I think there is something classy about him.

[Puja]

FORWARDS
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears)
Fin Baxter (Harlequins)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)

Jamie George (Saracens)
Theo Dan (Saracens)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Trevor Davison (Northampton Saints)

Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)

Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)
Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints)
Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs)

Ben Earl (Saracens)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Willis (Saracens)

BACKS
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears)

Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints)

Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Oscar Beard (Harlequins)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)

Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)
Elliot Daly (Saracens)

George Furbank (Northampton Saints)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)

[Puja]

Great to see LCD, TWillis, and Lozowski back in the mix - all deserve it on form. Not sure about the point of having Daly in there - I hope to gods that he's not being considered to cover centre in Slade's absence.

No spot for AOF or Fasogbon to be looked at - I'm glad for the confirmation that they're not in actual England contention, because they are both too young, but I'd've been tempted to find space for them as apprentices. Probably more worthwhile than calling up Davison.

I had hoped that we had moved on from Spencer after his execrable appearance, followed by Mitchell playing 80, in the NZ tests, but I guess there's not too many other options around and he is playing well for Bath. He always does play well at Prem level only to not be able to step up though.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I'm pleased to see Lozowski back in the mix. Every time I watch him I think there is something classy about him.

He's had a strange career really. I think he is another who hasn't played since that Japan game in 2018?

Skillfull, quick, hits hard in defence, can kick goals, but I was never quite sure if he had the ability to tie it all together or not. Yet another who primarily plays 13 though.

[Puja]

I'm pleased to see Lozowski back in the mix. Every time I watch him I think there is something classy about him.

He's had a strange career really. I think he is another who hasn't played since that Japan game in 2018?

Skillfull, quick, hits hard in defence, can kick goals, but I was never quite sure if he had the ability to tie it all together or not. Yet another who primarily plays 13 though.

I mean, he is another in the Slade archetype - with the skillset that people say they should be playing 12 yet never actually turning out there. If we were looking to go like-for-like, with him and Lawrence switching positions in attack, he's the closest option.

Just realised there's no room for Butt. Needs a lot more evidence than just two good games before realistically talking about him for England, but a little disappointed that Stern Buttselection didn't want to have a look.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Would have liked to see the back of Roots (Hill or Pepper would be my completely biased thoughts) - and room made for Butt (Daly making way). Would have had Langdon over LCD as well.
No problem with Lozowski being in there - he's a good player who should really have had more opportunities.
Disappointed that Spencer is still in there, but with Mitchell and Quirke out I can't think who should be there instead.

Pleased to see no children selected in the front row

[Epaminondas Pules]

I'd hazard a guess / hope there will be a rejig of this squad, with things like a Curry coming into the mix. I don't get Davidson over AOF myself, and Daly baffles me, as does Spencer to be fair, but there are less options there, and Roots just seems odd on a major scale.

[Mr Mwenda]

No Obano? Did he blot his copybook at some point?

Risking the pun thread, who is beard?

[fivepointer]

Its a 3 day camp next week so its not the autumn squad. Its a very conservative selection but i daresay SB is just going with the tried and tested for his first get together of the season.
If Butt continues to impress i'm sure he will come into the frame later on, like Atkinson, Pepper, Langdon and a few others.

[Which Tyler]

So, on the one hand, get the summer tourists back together, and tinker with things - on the other, seems the perfect opportunity to bring some apprentice type options in to see what's what, and a confidence boost that they're in the frame - which may, of course, be limited by agreements between PRL and RFU

[Scrumhead]

The biggest head scratchers for me are LCD > Langdon and Marler still being involved.

Langdon has shown over a good period of time that he’s a serious option. In that time, he’s totally eclipsed LCD and has shown he can compete at the sharp end of the Champions’ Cup which is the closest comparison we have for test rugby. I have no idea why he isn’t getting a look in?

I’m not really sure why Marler is included? 1) He hasn’t played this season and is still injured. 2) I’m pretty sure his contract is up at the end of the season and I can’t see him carrying on. With Genge, Baxter and the likes of Obano available, I think it’s ‘thanks Joe’ and move on. Cole is a bit different given how few tightheads we have at the required level. Still would have had Heyes involved though.

[Oakboy]

The biggest head scratchers for me are LCD > Langdon and Marler still being involved.

Langdon has shown over a good period of time that he’s a serious option. In that time, he’s totally eclipsed LCD and has shown he can compete at the sharp end of the Champions’ Cup which is the closest comparison we have for test rugby. I have no idea why he isn’t getting a look in?

I’m not really sure why Marler is included? 1) He hasn’t played this season and is still injured. 2) I’m pretty sure his contract is up at the end of the season and I can’t see him carrying on. With Genge, Baxter and the likes of Obano available, I think it’s ‘thanks Joe’ and move on. Cole is a bit different given how few tightheads we have at the required level. Still would have had Heyes involved though.

Maybe, SB is looking to have an 'either/or' experienced hooker with two younger ones? He could want to check whether LCD is up to being George's understudy at this point with it being unlikely that both will stay fit. IMO, neither should be there but, in the short-term, the successors have not yet had the chance to demand the 2 shirt.

[Banquo]

reckon Coles out for a while

[Mikey Brown]

I assume Marler and George are hoping to plod their way through to the Lions tour?

[Danno]

No Obano? Did he blot his copybook at some point?

Risking the pun thread, who is beard?

Oscar Beard, centre at Quins. He made summer Squads iirc but didn't make it into a match day squad. He's decent/solid in a Dingwall sorta way but a bit quicker. I'd prefer Northmore but he's crocked atm.

This looks VERY light on locks - Chessum is barely back from injury and Maro also had to miss a game iirc? Training squad or not there's only a month before the AIs

Other than that, I like it. Can't think of many players that have been unfairly omitted. Would be marvellous if Davison could have a Mark-Wilson-esque late career bloom at TH

[FKAS]

Odd to drop Joe Heyes at a time he's showing good form. Unless he picked up a knock last weekend, it's generally been assumed he's getting a rest having been rotated out for the Falcons game. I don't get the Davison selection, he's a slightly above average prop who's not show the potential to go beyond that and at 32 is unlikely to make the next world cup.

Admittedly it's just a training squad so things could yet change before the AIs.

Centre is the biggest concern, closely followed by 9 and lock if we get any injuries. Chessum returning from injury and captaining Tigers is a boost but Coles hurting his ribs last night might put a spanner in the works.

[fivepointer]

BREAKING: Nick Isiekwe and Charlie Ewels have replaced Alex Coles and George Martin in the England training squad due to injury.

They join Maro Itoje and Ollie Chessum as other lock options in the training squad.

George Martin will remain with the squad for rehabilitation.

[Puja]

BREAKING: Nick Isiekwe and Charlie Ewels have replaced Alex Coles and George Martin in the England training squad due to injury.

They join Maro Itoje and Ollie Chessum as other lock options in the training squad.

George Martin will remain with the squad for rehabilitation.

Ugh. Disappointing. Ewels is playing well, but he surely can't be trusted with an England shirt again after two red cards in 7 minutes. Surely would make more sense to call up Tuima who at least has a chance at a future with England? Isiekwe doesn't look like he's ever going to be regular international quality, but we're running out of options after that - Munga appears to've turned a corner for Saints, but very early to call that after just 3 games.

Was halfway hopeful that Slick Ballpresentation would find a way to sneak Pepper into the squad. Some of his play for Bath the last two weeks has been JWillis-esque.

Puja

[FKAS]

Nick Isiekwe is only 26, could still kick on again yet. George Martin is rumoured to have a knock but nothing serious so hopefully he's fine for the weekend. Hopefully not another knee injury, poor sod has had enough bad luck with those already.

Pepper has been outstanding so far this season. Perhaps not a bad idea to let him have a full season in the first team for Bath then take him on tour next summer.

[Which Tyler]

Nick Isiekwe is only 26, could still kick on again yet.

He could, but... he's behind another, younger, English lock for his club side.
There's absolutely value in having Itoje's club colleague pack down alongside him (as shown by Kruis' career) - but... maybe choose the player he packs down alongside, rather than the guy who sits on the bench?

[Scrumhead]

The only thing I can think is that they’ve both got the call on account of it being a short training camp. When you’ve only got a few days, it’s probably not all that useful to bring in players who need to be introduced to the set up.

Also, if we’re looking at like-for-like, I guess Isiekwe is probably the obvious choice of the available player with a vaguely similar-ish style to Coles i.e. more athletic, jumping lock.

Ewels isn’t a patch on Martin but they kind of occupy a similar brief as the more physical ‘enforcer’ type of lock.

[Puja]

The only thing I can think is that they’ve both got the call on account of it being a short training camp. When you’ve only got a few days, it’s probably not all that useful to bring in players who need to be introduced to the set up.

Also, if we’re looking at like-for-like, I guess Isiekwe is probably the obvious choice of the available player with a vaguely similar-ish style to Coles i.e. more athletic, jumping lock.

Ewels isn’t a patch on Martin but they kind of occupy a similar brief as the more physical ‘enforcer’ type of lock.

That's a good point actually - our 5th and 6th choice locks are unlikely to actually see game time, so it does make some sense to have people who don't need to be taught the ropes to cover the lock spaces in the training sessions.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

In these kind of circumstances, it’s probably what I’d do.

Obviously you always need to be looking to develop the squad, but for now, I’d see Isiekwe and Ewels as serving a purpose in making the training as useful as possible for the rest of the group.